U. S. 2008 Election Thread

[daclassicgamingmaster]

johnmccain.com LOL

 

[Pickle]

all i got to say is spread the wealth, with that said can everyone give me a $100?

 

[DaveC]

all i got to say is spread the wealth, with that said can everyone give me a $100?

The wealth is being spread now. Under the Bush/McCain plan the wealth is spread from the middle class to the super rich. Taxes always "spread wealth" they should be more fair to the average Joe though, not the elite and corporations.

Here is a "nice" montage of Palin AKA "Caribou Barbie" audio clips for "fans" out there

http://www.geocities.com/dcancilier@sbcglo...ribouBarbie.mp3

 

[Pickle]

all i got to say is spread the wealth, with that said can everyone give me a $100?

The wealth is being spread now. Under the Bush/McCain plan the wealth is spread from the middle class to the super rich. Taxes always "spread wealth" they should be more fair to the average Joe though, not the elite and corporations.


In all seriousness I like the idea of the fair tax, basically a across the board sales tax. It would also eliminate the need for the IRS and all of the paperwork mess that we have now.
Although im not sure where you think in the current situation how wealth is being spread, its known the majority of tax income brought in is paid by the higher income individuals.
The thing with Obamas plan worries me a bit. So he is going to tax companies more, so that cost for a company goes up. What will happen as a result will be layoffs.
In my personal opinion I also dont think he not going to tax the middle class more, I think once he is in the dems will find a way.
But I think we all can agree any tax increases for anyone is going to be bad in our current economic situation. I certainly dont need one.

 

[DaveC]

all i got to say is spread the wealth, with that said can everyone give me a $100?

The wealth is being spread now. Under the Bush/McCain plan the wealth is spread from the middle class to the super rich. Taxes always "spread wealth" they should be more fair to the average Joe though, not the elite and corporations.


In all seriousness I like the idea of the fair tax, basically a across the board sales tax. It would also eliminate the need for the IRS and all of the paperwork mess that we have now.
Although im not sure where you think in the current situation how wealth is being spread, its known the majority of tax income brought in is paid by the higher income individuals.
The thing with Obamas plan worries me a bit. So he is going to tax companies more, so that cost for a company goes up. What will happen as a result will be layoffs.
In my personal opinion I also dont think he not going to tax the middle class more, I think once he is in the dems will find a way.
But I think we all can agree any tax increases for anyone is going to be bad in our current economic situation. I certainly dont need one.


Well across the board sales tax means the poor and the middle class will pay the most tax. Since everyone pays the exact same tax the lower class will be paying a higher percent of their income. That amounts to another handout for the rich.

As far as higher taxes on corporations well you know that the CEOs of these companies make a much higher salary than the workers. This spread has gone up dramatically in the Bush years. Maybe they shouldn't be so greedy?

You can assume that the Democrats will raise all taxes even though they say they won't but now that is just guesswork. I can assume that Palin being the far right radical that she is will want to start a holy war against non-Christians causing thermonuclear world war 3 too since she could have acess to "the button". It is just guesswork at this point.

 

[Pickle]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

 

[Qwertyuiop]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

Furthermore, why give people tax cuts, when they don't pay taxes?

(edit: typo)

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

For twelve years you've been asking "Who is John Galt?" This is John Galt speaking. I'm the man who's taken away your victims and thus destroyed your world. You've heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis and that Man's sins are destroying the world. But your chief virtue has been sacrifice, and you've demanded more sacrifices at every disaster. You've sacrificed justice to mercy and happiness to duty. So why should you be afraid of the world around you?

Your world is only the product of your sacrifices. While you were dragging the men who made your happiness possible to your sacrificial altars, I beat you to it. I reached them first and told them about the game you were playing and where it would take them. I explained the consequences of your 'brother-love' morality, which they had been too innocently generous to understand. You won't find them now, when you need them more than ever.

We're on strike against your creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. If you want to know how I made them quit, I told them exactly what I'm telling you tonight. I taught them the morality of Reason -- that it was right to pursue one's own happiness as one's principal goal in life. I don't consider the pleasure of others my goal in life, nor do I consider my pleasure the goal of anyone else's life.

I am a trader. I earn what I get in trade for what I produce. I ask for nothing more or nothing less than what I earn. That is justice. I don't force anyone to trade with me; I only trade for mutual benefit. Force is the great evil that has no place in a rational world. One may never force another human to act against his/her judgment. If you deny a man's right to Reason, you must also deny your right to your own judgment. Yet you have allowed your world to be run by means of force, by men who claim that fear and joy are equal incentives, but that fear and force are more practical.

You've allowed such men to occupy positions of power in your world by preaching that all men are evil from the moment they're born. When men believe this, they see nothing wrong in acting in any way they please. The name of this absurdity is 'original sin'. That's inmpossible. That which is outside the possibility of choice is also outside the province of morality. To call sin that which is outside man's choice is a mockery of justice. To say that men are born with a free will but with a tendency toward evil is ridiculous. If the tendency is one of choice, it doesn't come at birth. If it is not a tendency of choice, then man's will is not free.

And then there's your 'brother-love' morality. Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but not by you? Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven't earned it to accept it? If it's virtuous to give, isn't it then selfish to take?

Your acceptance of the code of selflessness has made you fear the man who has a dollar less than you because it makes you feel that that dollar is rightfully his. You hate the man with a dollar more than you because the dollar he's keeping is rightfully yours. Your code has made it impossible to know when to give and when to grab.

You know that you can't give away everything and starve yourself. You've forced yourselves to live with undeserved, irrational guilt. Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle. This country wasn't built by men who sought handouts. In its brilliant youth, this country showed the rest of the world what greatness was possible to Man and what happiness is possible on Earth.

Then it began apologizing for its greatness and began giving away its wealth, feeling guilty for having produced more than ikts neighbors. Twelve years ago, I saw what was wrong with the world and where the battle for Life had to be fought. I saw that the enemy was an inverted morality and that my acceptance of that morality was its only power. I was the first of the men who refused to give up the pursuit of his own happiness in order to serve others.

To those of you who retain some remnant of dignity and the will to live your lives for yourselves, you have the chance to make the same choice. Examine your values and understand that you must choose one side or the other. Any compromise between good and evil only hurts the good and helps the evil.

If you've understood what I've said, stop supporting your destroyers. Don't accept their philosophy. Your destroyers hold you by means of your endurance, your generosity, your innocence, and your love. Don't exhaust yourself to help build the kind of world that you see around you now. In the name of the best within you, don't sacrifice the world to those who will take away your happiness for it.

The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

 

[Sphinxter]

Like someone suddenly shitting their pants in mid conversation.

 

[Username]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

Why should those who make more than us get all the tax breaks? Why do they have to pay less? They already have plenty of money, whereas the middle class doesn't (which is why it is called the middle class). Don't you think it's stupid when rich people get richer and poor people get poorer?

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

Why should those who make more than us get all the tax breaks? Why do they have to pay less? They already have plenty of money, whereas the middle class doesn't (which is why it is called the middle class). Don't you think it's stupid when rich people get richer and poor people get poorer?

Conservatives don't advocate tax breaks for the rich, they advocate tax breaks for everyone. What you're probably referring to is tax breaks given to corporations in a program often referred to as "trickle-down", which is crap, anyways. If you heavily tax corporations, who is there to hire people? Should we all go to work for the government? Because that's what happens in a state where economic sanctity is sacrificed.

Then again, I can't blame you for arguing the point you are; if the Left doesn't invoke the myth of class warfare on a day-to-day basis, they'd have absolutely no ideological bearing for their positions.

 

[DaveC]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

No but I think the rich should pay more than the middle class or poor do.

Bush gave the most tax cuts to the ones that made the most, that made no sense nor was it fair. It was Reaganomics revisited, and you see it didn't work out too well. All Obama wants to do is repeal the bush tax cuts and go back to what it was before them.

Right now with Bush, it is socialism for the rich (Wallstreet) and capitalism for the rest of us.

 

[Username]

DaveC, im wondering do you believe you should personally receive money from someone else that makes more than you, just because you have less?

Why should those who make more than us get all the tax breaks? Why do they have to pay less? They already have plenty of money, whereas the middle class doesn't (which is why it is called the middle class). Don't you think it's stupid when rich people get richer and poor people get poorer?

Conservatives don't advocate tax breaks for the rich, they advocate tax breaks for everyone. What you're probably referring to is tax breaks given to corporations in a program often referred to as "trickle-down", which is crap, anyways. If you heavily tax corporations, who is there to hire people? Should we all go to work for the government? Because that's what happens in a state where economic sanctity is sacrificed.

Then again, I can't blame you for arguing the point you are; if the Left doesn't invoke the myth of class warfare on a day-to-day basis, they'd have absolutely no ideological bearing for their positions.

In case you can't remember, it was George Bush who, not all too long ago, imposed tax breaks for the rich. It really doesn't matter what you say that conservatives advocate. They advocate smaller government, all the recent republican presidents have expanded the government a lot (with things like wire-tapping, Department of Defense, and TSA, for example.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

I just get a kick out of the political naivete. :lol: Lemme guess, grad student? :rolleyes:

What was so bad about the Bush presidency, again? Did your life chance substantially? Did the government burst down your door and invoke the Patriot Act? Are you on the No-Fly List? Have your taxes gone up substantially? And about this Iraq war, regardless of your disdain for removing evil dictators, how many Americans have we lost? Just shy of 5,000? I appreciate their sacrifice and believe in their cause, but people need to put numbers into prospective. This is off the top of my head, but compare that to the 60,000 who died in 'Nam, the 50,000 who died in Korea, and the millions who died in WWII. The numbers pale in comparison. National debt, you cry? America has always had a national debt, Alexander Hamilton intentionally set it up so elites would constantly have a stake in the welfare of a government controlled by the common man. All I'm saying is that a short evocation of history can settle most, if not all, qualms of Leftism.

As for any complaints of Capitalism, for the most part, everyone does have equality of opportunity (which is different than equality, mind you) in America, and either reaps the benefit of their labor or rots in the corpse of their laziness. Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course, and we've got an alphabet soup of organizations lined up to deal with problems should they arise. Will some people still fall through the cracks? Absolutely. But to completely surrender the right for all to economic freedom and sanctity to the well-being of a few is soft tyranny and statistically criminal.

Oh, and reality check, the rest of the world has never, EVER liked America. And in all honesty, those who hate us are largely useless, i.e. Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, etc. You really think a messianic Marxist is going to change all that?

 

[DaveC]

What was so bad about the Bush presidency, again? Did your life chance substantially?

Oh, and reality check, the rest of the world has never, EVER liked America. And in all honesty, those who hate us are largely useless, i.e. Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, etc. You really think a messianic Marxist is going to change all that?

Many lives did change drastically, for the worst, under the Bush presidency. The only ones that made out were the super rich, which are the smallest percent of Americans.

Those that hate us are useless? With statements like that I can see why they hate us.

No a Messianic Marxist won't change all of that. The good news though is there is not one of those running this year. McCain may be old, out of ideas, all about fear and division, and picked an airhead for VP but he isn't a marxist as far as I know

You really need to get away from the Fox "news". It is eating holes in your mind, then filling those holes with lies.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

What was so bad about the Bush presidency, again? Did your life chance substantially?

Oh, and reality check, the rest of the world has never, EVER liked America. And in all honesty, those who hate us are largely useless, i.e. Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, etc. You really think a messianic Marxist is going to change all that?

Many lives did change drastically, for the worst, under the Bush presidency. The only ones that made out were the super rich, which are the smallest percent of Americans.

Those that hate us are useless? With statements like that I can see why they hate us.

No a Messianic Marxist won't change all of that. The good news though is there is not one of those running this year. McCain may be old, out of ideas, all about fear and division, and picked an airhead for VP but he isn't a marxist as far as I know

You really need to get away from the Fox "news". It is eating holes in your mind, then filling those holes with lies.
Eh, this was fun, but neither of us are going to change each other's mind any time soon. I just hope that all these Liberal elites who keep threatening to leave the country if McCain wins the election actually follow through this time around. :lol:

 

[Username]

Eh, this was fun, but neither of us are going to change each other's mind any time soon. I just hope that all these Liberal elites who keep threatening to leave the country if McCain wins the election actually follow through this time around. :lol:

So... who just won?

 

[PoisonedV]

loling hard at the ignorance at this thread. this is why no one should ever rely on personal anecdotes, especially on the internet, to form opinions.
@chorontriggerfan: hey, even better than liberals shitting themselves but not actually leaving the country, will be all the racist conservative fuckheads killing themselves and their families because a NEGRO acquired presidency! haw haw haw!

 

[DaveC]

Eh, this was fun, but neither of us are going to change each other's mind any time soon. I just hope that all these Liberal elites who keep threatening to leave the country if McCain wins the election actually follow through this time around. :lol:

Ok forget the "liberal elites" (which is a joke BTW as it is the rich conservatives that are the real "elites" like Limbaugh with his 400 million a year salary) but what about center and moderates, even many conservatives, that just want the smart, well tempered, pragmatic guy with the funny name?

I still just can't imagine Sara "I can see Russia from Alaska" Palin as leader of US of A.

Anyway I would suggest going here to factcheck claims from both sides. It is a non-partisan site that exposes any "mis truths" spread by both sides. It is stuff they won't tell you on Faux news or MSNBC.

http://www.factcheck.org/

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

I do believe it's called MSLSD. Or MSKGB. Or my personal favorite, PMSNBC. :lol: Either way, any site that Rachael Maddow cites on a regular basis isn't even-keel, factcheck has a pretty clear agenda. And yes, I do listen to Doctor Maddow, I've listened to Liberal and Conservative media ever since I can remember. Before it was to formulate my own political identity, but anymore I just stick around to see how big a fool Keith Overbite can make of himself in a single hour.