U. S. 2008 Election Thread


Well as an european I would vote for McCain.

Obama seems blahblahblah to me. He is good talking but only this.

McCain is a hero. Nobody like that man in Europe. Trust me.

Both are quite good politicians. You americans cannot imagine how bad can be politicians in anothers countries.
In my country politicians are REALLY pathetic.

Economy lately is ******. But I doubt politicians can do something real about it. The only thing that politicians must do about economy is not doing worst things.

But Russia is again with their typical and historical imperialism.
I think russian people is very smart and valuable but imperialism is same history, same errors.

I hate imperialism. I hate old european imperialism but I prefer USA imperialism than Russian, China, India, Pakistan,... imperialisms.

Iraq war was not a good decision. But Bush was elected two time by american people. Everybody has responsability.

In my country everybody would vote for Obama because socially my country is very "leftist".

But I think for world's well being McCain will be much better.
 
Xmoon said:
Well as an european I would vote for McCain.

Obama seems blahblahblah to me. He is good talking but only this.

McCain is a hero. Nobody like that man in Europe. Trust me.
Too painful to re-live ancient history but there are some who served with him that don't share that opinion.
 
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CronoTriggerfan said:
Barack Obama is a Marxist demagogue. Don't believe me? Go read either of his autobiographies. He advocates Socialism across the board, massive wealth redistribution, and a pacifist, reserved foreign policy that constantly consults the EU, a useless,... (snip) .long text full of Faux noise BillO talking points.
Socialism? Do you like your fire departments? Libraries? Road and infrastructure maintenance (maybe you would like a toll at every corner?) etc? That is socialism, bud. It isn't always bad you know.

McCain is a hot head pure and simple. He is erratic, unpredictable and shoots from the hip without thinking (sound familiar? Hint: GWB). This guy does not have the temperment to be POTUS, that is a fact. Palin being a radical witch believing Pentacostal is even more dangerous.

If you like the direction the country has gone in the last 7+ years and want the same but worse then McCain is your guy.

Me I want the Republicans OUT, they screwed up and they don't deserve to be rewarded for failure. Obama is smart, level headed, and has the right temperment to be POTUS. This time I want the smart guy, not the dumguyiwouldliketohaveabeerwith.

I actually don't think Obama would be the lesser of the two evils, I think he would actually be decent.
Xmoon said:
Obama seems blahblahblah to me. He is good talking but only this.

McCain is a hero. Nobody like that man in Europe. Trust me.
But I think for world's well being McCain will be much better.
Obama seems blahblahblah. And McCain doesn't? He is worse.

Hero? Well being in the military does not automatically make you qualified to be president.

The world would be better with McCain? How? Was Bush good for the world? Maybe you like war? How about McCain saber rattling with Russia over Georgia? Do you like thermonuclear world war?
 
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I think they're all a pile of shit.

McCain is too old and Palin comes across as too cutesy and not all that bright. Obama is a phony and Biden is a party hack.

As far as I'm concerned, we have no leadership worth talking about in the USA. The system is totally geared to a ruling class of wealthy lawyers and businessmen. Nobody represents ME, and they never will. And I live my life with that in mind.

As for socialism and capitalism etc. - I wish people would stop being "true believers" in isms, and concentrate on what works, what doesn't and what is really needed. and if we're going to have laws, then apply those laws universally.

Politically I'm best described as libertarian I suppose. I'm fairly conservative in my own life, although I'm not religious and I don't like government watching and controlling what I do. But within reason, I do believe a society should take care of its own, so some degree of "socialistic" practices are needed sometimes. Do I wish people would take care of themselves? Yes. Most do. But at the same time, I don't want to be part of a society that would let people die in the street for whatever reason.

Whoever does win, I just hope a sense of pragmatism will somehow rule the day. These are times for pragmatism above all, not times for elitist party politics.
 
DaveC said:
Xmoon said:
Obama seems blahblahblah to me. He is good talking but only this.

McCain is a hero. Nobody like that man in Europe. Trust me.
But I think for world's well being McCain will be much better.
Obama seems blahblahblah. And McCain doesn't? He is worse.

Hero? Well being in the military does not automatically make you qualified to be president.

The world would be better with McCain? How? Was Bush good for the world? Maybe you like war? How about McCain saber rattling with Russia over Georgia? Do you like thermonuclear world war?


:)

I know that my vision of USA is very limited.

Again. I prefer a strong USA. Like USA in WWII. And to me McCain is that America that fought Hitler. Idealist, with faith.
Obama is a meh America.

Sorry for my english.

QUOTE
He was a prisoner of war until 1973, experiencing episodes of torture and refusing an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer; his war wounds left him with lifelong physical limitations.


Torture is a world's plague.

Another tortures.

I prefer McCain. He understand war and torture much better than Obama.

Translated from spanish from a catalan economist:
http://www.columbia.edu/~xs23/catala/artic...Barak_Obama.htm


QUOTE

Obama is the More Attractive

It has the elegant movement of Tiger Woods, the aristocratic beauty of Denzel Washington, sympathy contagious Michael Jordan and dexterity verbale Martin Luther King.

Barak Obama, the first African-American candidate for the presidency of the United States, has a special personal appeal that makes him the favorite of all the polls (especially those made in Europe). Always dressed in a dark suit, one shirt white, red or blue tie and a pin of the American flag on the lapel ... What? A pin with the American flag? But if a few months ago, Obama said that the pin was an abuse that the Republicans did in the flag by partisan goals and refused to get where he gave on 11 September! How is it that has decided to return to ponérselo?

Curious. Do you not believe? In fact, just as curious that a whole series of changes that the charismatic candidate has been experiencing lately: only three months ago Obama was a kind of messiah of the left adored by all progressive in the world (especially Europe) and now it seems that the messiah is abandoning its loyal and embraces more centrist liberal positions.

When I was a left-wing three months ago, Obama is vehemently opposed to free trade treaty that the U.S. has with Canada and Mexico (the Progres think that globalization hurts workers in rich countries because they are taking jobs to countries poor so that all political leftists should oppose the free trade). Now that is moderate, said the trade agreement in North American countries must be met and that trade is beneficial to society.

When I was a left-wing three months ago, Obama opposed the FISA law (law of foreign espionage and intelligence) that was intended to pardon telecom companies that spied on U.S. citizens after the September 11. Now that is moderate, will vote in favor of the law.

When I was a left-wing three months ago, Obama pledged not to use private funds to finance his election campaign (as it is known that the non-progressive tolerating private financing of election campaigns). Now that is moderate (and immensely rich, thanks to private donations, by the way), has reneged on its promise.

When I was a left-wing three months ago, said that unlike Bush, he would meet with all the presidents of the world (including the Iranian Almadinejad, or the Castro brothers) "without preconditions". Now that is moderate, suggests that any international event requires a "preparedness".

When I was a left-wing three months ago, Obama said that income taxes should go up to finance, among other things, a universal social security. Now that is moderate, proposes tax cuts for the middle classes. "

When I was a left-wing three months ago, stated that the law prohibiting carrying of arms in Washington DC was fully constitutional. Now that is moderate and that the constitutional court has rejected such a law, has declared that the supreme court is right.

When I was a left-wing three months ago, Obama said it could never repudiate his pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, even racist who pronounce from his pulpit. Now that is moderate, it has repudiated without any contemplation.

Ah! And let's not forget the best: when it was left three months ago, Obama promised that the United States would leave Iraq "16 months after his arrival to the presidency." Now that is moderate, said it will only when "Iraq is stabilized and there is security across the country."

In just three months, the candidate Barak Obama has experienced a Copernican shift. Why is there such a mutation? Well, one of two: either received a visit from some enlightening archangel that has made him see the light ... or his strategy to reach the White House goes through progressive moderate its radical positions. Me, I'm not quite up to believe in heavenly views, rather I am inclined to think that such a cynical and alarming lack of principles is a strategy clearly studied.

On the one hand, Obama knows that to win the primaries, a Democratic candidate needs to do to see that it is very left-wing vote in the primaries only the most radical militants. To win the general election, however, the same candidate has to move toward the center because the votes of the left has already insured. That is, voters radical auparon toward him to believe that the nomination would leave Iraq right away, never to vote for McCain rather than betray the Obama and say now that will stay in Iraq as long as required; conclusion: a betrayal. Unable to lose votes from the left, the optimal strategy is to go as far right as possible in order to scrape the votes of more moderate Republicans.

On the other hand, Note that the "principles" of the new and moderate Obama is very close to defending McCain. That is not a coincidence: Obama thinks that if there was no substantial ideological differences between the two candidates, citizens will eventually surface valuing personal factors such as pleasantness, beauty or charisma. And of course, everyone knows that, taking the best of Tiger Woods, Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan and Martin Luther King, in the superficial aspects, Obama is the most attractive.
 
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Isn't it peculiar that when a normal person changes one's judgements on an issue, they are progressive and intelligent, whereas when a politician does it, they're inconsistent and two-faced?

Another thing I find strange is that people obsess over politicians' use of the American flag; whether or not they wear it on their jackets, whether or not they have it on their planes. It's just a flag. Sure, it represents a lot, but there are billions of things more important than the American flag. Over 6.6 billion things. Whether one decides to worship a flag or burn it doesn't matter a bit among the real policies. And Obama's real policies are much better for the world than McCain's.
 
Prophet said:
These are times for pragmatism above all, not times for elitist party politics.
Well you just pretty much described Obama. He is much more pragmatic than McCain, which just seems very erratic. His pick for VP itself was a very snap decision that he really didn't think out (He spoke to her twice). Obama seems more level headed and tends to analyze and think before acting. McCain just seems to operate on emotion.

None are perfect, but Palin especially scares me.

Xmoon said:
I know that my vision of USA is very limited.
Again. I prefer a strong USA. Like USA in WWII. And to me McCain is that America that fought Hitler. Idealist, with faith.
Obama is a meh America.
You seem to reference "fight" and "war" alot. That can lead to trouble. Trouble that McCain seems all too willing get into as a solution for too many things.

Me I have had it with war. The cost to America (and innocents everywhere) in blood and treasure is astounding. I agree that military force is sometimes needed, but it should be used as a last resort, and then it should be deployed in the most intelligent and purposed manner. The way Bush used it was way too sloppy, reckless and in many cases unjustified. I am afraid McCain will be more of the same judging by his temperment.
 
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Or the war on science

And the war on the middle class..
 
I love this idea that people have of McCain being a war hero. No soldier that ventured into Vietnam for that war can be considered a war hero. You can commend him for his courage for managing to stick it out through the torture and stuff but that is not a war hero. A war hero, in my eyes, would be someone who risked his own life to save others in the heat of battle or something similar.

But seriously, is a man who is so readily wanting to go to war to sort stuff out really the kind of man that you need to have as president of one of the largest countries in the world? We all know the answer is no. War rarely resolves anything (Vietnam, Iraq to name but a few places where it didn't help/work).
 
As McCain began his speech to about 1,000 people, a young woman was hoisted onto the shoulders of some friends right in front of the main bank of television cameras.

She held up a poster that said "War is over" but her sign was quickly ripped down by people in the audience. She then held up her hands in the "V" symbol for peace and yelled, "We want peace!"

McCain stopped speaking and at one point tried to speak to her, saying, "Hi." The audience quickly started chanting "We want John!" and continued until the woman was pulled down from her friends' shoulders and escorted out.

McCain then offered a lecture about bipartisanship.

"There's a perfect example of some people that just don't get it," he said, prompting huge applause from the crowd.

http//voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail...ml?hpid=topnews
 
Ron Paul was the only one running for president and concerned about our economy. The only reason you hear them talking about it now, is because of the massive hit banks have taken. And why have they taken a hit?

How about EVERY DEMOCRAT in congress voting AGAINST regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Click Here

I'm really sorry poor people can't afford houses, but you can't give a loan to some who CAN'T PAY IT BACK! This is the problem with Democrats. You guys have good intentions and it looks good on paper, but PEOPLE ABUSE systems.

Look at the War on Poverty! Since we've instituted it in 1964? Poverty has been at a stand still. Section 8 housing and Welfare sound good on paper, but if you see what the result is you would notice that it is HEAVILY abused.

Combine that with dumb ass War on Drugs and you have inner city kids that have been living off the system and have NO HOPE of achieving anything better and their ONLY resort to make good money is to deal drugs. The War on Drugs has STOPPED NO ONE from getting drugs. It has only successfully managed to increase the costs of drugs 1000x and has made criminals out of innocent people. First Weed has NEVER killed anyone! NO ONE! Other drugs are harsh, but they exist in the world and if PEOPLE want something enough they will get it. Prohibition didn't work and neither has the war on drugs.

And please don't think I am just slamming Democrats, republicans are just as fucked up. Gay Marriage should be allowed, Abortion should be allowed. NO ONE has the right to tell someone else what they can do. Truly the problem is Republicans and Christians are so intertwined that a Republican couldn't even say he was in favor of this, because he would lose a lot of support.

Socialism ONLY works on the internet. That is why we have open source stuff. But people did it in their own free time and quite a few things are largely not working. Socialism doesn't work in a physical world. I'm sorry but if someones interest was in Hardware engineering, he would have to be re-located to a fabrication plant. Do you realistically think EVERYONE will just drop what they are doing and divorce themselves from whatever else is going on in their lives for the benefit of everyone else. No I am sorry. It is human nature to look out for yourself first. Even in an opensource world, a developer has to want to do it and have the free time to do it in.

Their are MANY things that scare me about having Barry Obama as president. And their are many things that scare me about having McCain as president. Mainly McCain dying and Palin becoming president.

Think about this: Every system that we have tried to put in place is or was a complete fucking failure. IRS, DHS, Prohibition, War on Drugs, War on Poverty, USPS, Social Security. Every ONE of these government programs either wastes money or is a complete failure.

Our Government can not manage ANYTHING. So why would you want them to have SO much power when they have OBVIOUSLY demonstrated they can do NOTHING right? Their is a place for government, how deeply rooted it is within our lives is NOT it.

I swear if voting actually mattered, they would have made it illegal.
 
PlopperZ said:
Did you know that Sarah Palin just got her first passport less than two years ago?
How can you possibly know how the world economy works without having actually been anywhere?
I don't think you understand - she can see russia from her house :)
 
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DaveC said:
Xmoon said:
I know that my vision of USA is very limited.
Again. I prefer a strong USA. Like USA in WWII. And to me McCain is that America that fought Hitler. Idealist, with faith.
Obama is a meh America.
You seem to reference "fight" and "war" alot. That can lead to trouble. Trouble that McCain seems all too willing get into as a solution for too many things.

Me I have had it with war. The cost to America (and innocents everywhere) in blood and treasure is astounding. I agree that military force is sometimes needed, but it should be used as a last resort, and then it should be deployed in the most intelligent and purposed manner. The way Bush used it was way too sloppy, reckless and in many cases unjustified. I am afraid McCain will be more of the same judging by his temperment.


It's not about war. It's about faith and courage. The USA of Woodrow Wilson.

And the America of Obama seems Europe...
Obama implies no precise ideas.
Obama seems Zapatero(the "leader" of Spain), the perfect Pinocchio(but Obama is obviously more intelligent). All ads, no ideas. "We can"... Great marketing.

I know Europe must change. It's shocked from WWII. And it's afraid of take a world role and an exterior politics unified.

I don't like Kissinger's USA and Cia, Vietnam, etc... like you. I don't like cold war. But eastern europeans can tell you about Russian/Soviet way of life. Well it's not about Russia really. It's about China, India, etc.... Not democracies. Their culture of power is still old.

I asure you that I don't like USA way of life. I don't like that this kind of society expands over the world.

But USA world "leadership" must continue.

USA imperialism is much better than the others imperialisms(i.e. UK, France, Germany, Japan, Roman, etc... imperialisms).
 
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Xmoon said:
It's not about war. It's about faith and courage. The USA of Woodrow Wilson.

And the America of Obama seems Europe...
Obama implies no precise ideas.
Obama seems Zapatero(the "leader" of Spain), the perfect Pinocchio(but Obama is obviously more intelligent). All ads, no ideas. "We can"... Great marketing.

I asure you that I don't like USA way of life. I don't like that this kind of society expands over the world.
And McCain has precise ideas? like what?

Well you just have it wrong about Obama not having any ideas. He does have precise ideas. Don't forget though all presidents have advisors and cabinet to make recommendations etc. It is not like the president sits in a room all alone and starts making rules. It doesn't work that way.

McCain's advisors are all lobbyists and insiders like his economic advisor Phil Gramm. Just look up Phil and see what his policies are, they are a disaster.

If you don't like American military forced imperialism then for sure you should not be hoping for a McCain and Palin presidency.
 
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Xmoon said:
USA imperialism is much better than the others imperialisms(i.e. UK, France, Germany, Japan, Roman, etc... imperialisms).
You just haven't been kidnapped stuffed into an orange jumpsuit after a sedative enema and flown where you can be properly tortured then held in a dog kennel without contact yet, it's really not that much better.
 
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As said before, people are choosing between two evils and no one gives a damn that the "Leader of the Free World" is not suppose to be an evil to begin with.

Damnit people, its not just Obama and McCain. Get off of your television and newspapers and do some damn research. Spread the word the president doesn't have to be an evil, or a lesser evil.

I'm not saying anyone is better than another, but there are other candidates. Don't fucking spout to me that the others don't have a chance in hell of winning. Basically you're all fucked up and lazy who think that no one else has a chance of winning. Get off your asses and vote for someone else if you can't stand the two current "major candidates." Don't follow like shitdogs, do something meaningful and vote for someone you can understand more!

Freedom is to think. Freedom is to believe. Freedom is to choose. Fuck the rest who take that freedom away from US.


Noisome

Note: To the at least one person who decides to quote me and say I'm wrong. Fuck you too. At least we both have opinions.
 
Noisome said:
As said before, people are choosing between two evils and no one gives a damn that the "Leader of the Free World" is not suppose to be an evil to begin with.

Damnit people, its not just Obama and McCain. Get off of your television and newspapers and do some damn research. Spread the word the president doesn't have to be an evil, or a lesser evil.

I'm not saying anyone is better than another, but there are other candidates. Don't fucking spout to me that the others don't have a chance in hell of winning. Basically you're all fucked up and lazy who think that no one else has a chance of winning. Get off your asses and vote for someone else if you can't stand the two current "major candidates." Don't follow like shitdogs, do something meaningful and vote for someone you can understand more!

Freedom is to think. Freedom is to believe. Freedom is to choose. Fuck the rest who take that freedom away from US.
Noisome

Note: To the at least one person who decides to quote me and say I'm wrong. Fuck you too. At least we both have opinions.




Yes, Vote Nader, elect McCain.
 
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DaveC said:
And McCain has precise ideas? like what?

The ideas that have the adult generation of America.
I don't trust on recents generations of America. Specially the white.

The Simpons, Family guy are deforming the force of America.
The force of America is "Little House on the Prairie".

Obama is too young.

QUOTE

Well you just have it wrong about Obama not having any ideas. He does have precise ideas. Don't forget though all presidents have advisors and cabinet to make recommendations etc. It is not like the president sits in a room all alone and starts making rules. It doesn't work that way.
Really?

QUOTE

McCain's advisors are all lobbyists and insiders like his economic advisor Phil Gramm. Just look up Phil and see what his policies are, they are a disaster.



Remember. I'm only an european. I do not vote. :)

QUOTE

If you don't like American military forced imperialism then for sure you should not be hoping for a McCain and Palin presidency.



I prefer American military forced imperialism than others militaries forced imperialisms.

Go American imperialism Go!

:lol:
 
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