U. S. 2008 Election Thread


Chip

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The "Second Depression" thread is heading in this direction, and it probably makes sense for this topic to have it's own discussion. This is going to be a pretty big deal for the next couple months.

The only thing I require is that everybody keep it civil. You can disagree all you want, but keep the attacks aimed where they belong - at the politicians and their policies.

For myself, I will be voting for Obama. The man is not perfect, but he's not terrible either. It all comes down to voting for someone with little experience but good intentions, or someone with lots of experience and very bad intentions. Experience is something that can be learned, morality isn't.

John McCain is wrong about all the things that really matter. He's wrong about the war in Iraq, terrorism, the economy, and energy. Obama's plans for each of those issues are much better and more likely to succeed. I refuse to be sidetracked by inconsequential issues like who goes to who's church, or who is a compulsive liar. On the issues that will make or break the United States in the next few years, Obama is right and McCain is wrong.
 

peelie

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Certainly a Obama win would open up space for the left to make some inroads. Many argue such a space would be very marginal and not much different to McCain, others argue that even a marginal space for progressive politics would be much better than a McCain government.

Me, if I was a voter there, Nader would get it :) Some polls report him as getting as much as 4 percent in August :)

Also I side with the view that it will be just another case of same shit, different day :):( :blink:

Whereas the Pandora launch is a different kettle of fish :D
 

waffles

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Obama, because his VP is not palin.
I mean, really?
Also, palin looks like Laura Roslin from battlestar galatica. creeeepy.
 

lizard808uk

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QUOTE
Obama, because his VP is not palin.


Definitely!! I just found out that she only got her passport last year and is a big supporter of the NRA.. sounds like a female Bush to me!
 

waffles

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daclassicgamingmaster said:
Obama. Also, if Obama doesn't get in.....well, I don't want to be in the streets. Hell, I'll join Waffles in his bunker, cos it's gonna be a rough ride ;)
Ok, you bring the cheez-its and rifle, ill get the HEV suit.
Ah well, at least there's always Canada, Americas hat.
 
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prairiefire

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waffles said:
daclassicgamingmaster said:
Obama. Also, if Obama doesn't get in.....well, I don't want to be in the streets. Hell, I'll join Waffles in his bunker, cos it's gonna be a rough ride ;)
Ok, you bring the cheez-its and rifle, ill get the HEV suit.
Ah well, at least there's always Canada, Americas hat.

that's pretty funny :D
 
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peelie

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a nice satirical summing up of UK's Labour message (can be applied to US):

QUOTE
things are tough, but the main problem is that our message isn't getting out to people (a whinge about the media); British people are rightly concerned about the economy, but don't want to go back to the old ways (rebuke the Left, reassure business); we said we'd do x and we've done x, we said we'd do y and we're doing y, we said we'd do z and plans to fastrack z are already in place (delivery schtick); people have legitimate concerns about immigration, and we are responding to that, but we must also make the argument for a sensible immigration policy (we should be prudently racist); let's have a frank and honest debate about a, b and c (shut up and listen); we must work to strengthen our international commitments, to defend our values - sure to be pronounced 'vawlyews' at some point - not only against extremism but also against poverty and disease (let's hope Obama wins so that we can continue to throw troops at perpetual war zones and impose neoliberal measures without being associated with a bunch of headcases); we must act on the environment using the most technologically efficient solutions for a clean, modern economy (more nuclear power stations for us, less for Iran); so let us show boldness and vision, now more than ever, and let us show that the people of this country - who are intelligent and rational - will do better with a government of 'the many, not the few' than with a party that whatever their promises to the contrary will always represent the few against the many (we have nothing else up our sleeves, but it's either us or the Tories).


http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/09/man...ecial-brew.html
 

Ganepark32

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Although I'm not American, at this moment in time, I would be more inclined to vote for Barack Obama. He just appears to be the more genuine article when compared to McCain. The big downside to McCain is that he picked a running mate for Vice President who is a strong character than he is. Personally, I think he only picked Palin to run with him because she could appeal to the mothers in the country and because she's a woman. It may sound mean but I think that McCain thought he may get further with a female running mate. But then I don't think that Biden is the correct running mate for Obama. He's even said so himself. So you have to wonder why Obama picked him. Is it because he didn't want to have the Clinton's all over his work, cause if Hillary was Vice, Bill would have some form of work involved in what she was doing along with Obama.

Anyways, I do hope Obama gets elected. From his speeches to his policies, they just seem right for the current political climate, he does have to correct package to move American forward. I just hope when it does come to voting that certain sections of America's population don't just go,' He's black. I'm not voting for him.' I'm looking at you, Southern states.
 

plopperz

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Did you know that Sarah Palin just got her first passport less than two years ago?
How can you possibly know how the world economy works without having actually been anywhere?
 

Goity

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PlopperZ said:
Did you know that Sarah Palin just got her first passport less than two years ago?
How can you possibly know how the world economy works without having actually been anywhere?
I don't think you learn about the world's economy by going on holiday to Spain for a week. The experience thing works far more against Obama than Palin, seeing as she's only vice president.
It's pretty clear that most things Obama says are empty promises. It's a similar situation that may get David Cameron elected in the UK, being anybody but Gordon Brown (or Republican in this case).
 
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nickspoon

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Palin claims she's got foreign policy experience because Alaska is close to Russia. I'm not even going to comment.

As for Obama's 'lack of experience', I really think that's no argument. If you care to look it up (I've seen lists many times before) you'll see that Obama has extensive experience in legislation and government. Plus, while it's true that Palin would only be Vice President, there is a statistical one-in-three chance that McCain will die (figures not plucked from thin air but I have no idea about the source - regardless it is significantly likely) during presidency. Do we really want someone like that anywhere near power? Someone who brought the state of Alaska from a surplus into a deficit? Someone who campaigned to have a pro-gay book banned from public libraries? Someone who believes that even a rape victim should not have an abortion?
 

Blah

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And Obama's gonna fix everything how? He can't even form an opinion, let alone a plan. At least McCain uses his own brain, rather than just blindly mirroring his exposure to public opinions.

Pay attention to the *real* requirements for leadership, leave things like abortion and civil rights where the belong, in the hands of the public and the congress.
 

daclassicgamingmaster

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Blah said:
Pay attention to the *real* requirements for leadership, leave things like abortion and civil rights where the belong, in the hands of the public and the congress.
If Palin gets in, she'll make sure those things end up where she thinks they belong; in her hands ;)
 
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Chip

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Blah said:
And Obama's gonna fix everything how? He can't even form an opinion, let alone a plan. At least McCain uses his own brain, rather than just blindly mirroring his exposure to public opinions.

Pay attention to the *real* requirements for leadership, leave things like abortion and civil rights where the belong, in the hands of the public and the congress.
Obama has already formed plans for all the important issues.

He has already formulated a detailed phased withdrawal from Iraq.

Obama's tax plan is vastly superior to McCain's, unless you're making over $116K a year. It also puts far less of a burden on future generations by incurring less debt than McCain's plan.

Obama plans to invest heavily in alternative energy sources, which is the only way we will ever become energy-independent. McCain's only plan is to drill more, which won't solve anything.

Obama also has a detailed plan for health care and insurance reform. I don't know if it's actually workable as a whole (it's very expensive), but even a few of his ideas would make health care more affordable for average Americans. Compare that to McCain's plan of deregulation and taxing employer-based insurance - a strategy which is doomed to failure.

When you actually familiarize yourself with the platforms of both candidates instead of believing everything the talking heads tell you, it is clear that Obama has better ideas and better intentions. He may not be able to pull off half of what he plans, but I'd rather vote for somebody who is making an honest effort at improvement than somebody who is virtually guaranteed to make things worse.
 
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Chip

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Blah said:
Obama would say anything to get your vote, and says different things to different people.

Do you have any examples to back up this "theory", or do you just believe it because Sean Hannity tells you so?
 
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Blah

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For your information, I don't watch TV news. There's no worse waste of time if you ask me. As for Obama, I can tell that he isn't making his own decisions. He's got his finger on the pulse and that's all he's listening to.

Plans are nice, but they tend to go down the crapper quick without determination (flip-flops are weak). Bush had ambitious plans for education and the economy, too. As you know, not much good came of it, because "other things" kept "coming up".

As for Sarah Palin, I'd agree she was a weird choice and probably make a few mistakes, she's a noob after all. But remember she's running for VP, not fuhrer.
 
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