Transfers... Tranzfers..

[cbox]

I've been patiently waiting for awhile, and if there is no credit card option I'll have to bow out. I looked at tranzfers.com and signed up for an account but they make you jump through a bunch of hoops, they said they were going to mail me something to verify my home address and I never got it, so I gave up. If there is no decent credit card option I'll have to wait until later sorry.

 

[stebradshaw]

I'm not missing any points. You can ask AMEX customers about the "security" of their money. (Thankfully it looks like they'll get looked after either way).

Right now, my bank transferred money has more chance of being traced & reclaimed than any money on the wrong side of the AMEX double-brick wall.

Not that there's any chance I'll go down that path, because I trust the developers and want the project to forge ahead. It would be great if more people felt this way.

I pretty much trust the craigx and co 100% - i've had the gp32 and the gp2x from him in the past, and found the service to be excellent.

The only thing that is stopping me doing a bank transfer is that there are too many external factors.

If the unthinkable happens and they go out of business, anyone who has paid by whatever method will just become a creditor and will be way down the list for repayment. The insurance offered by credit card payment mitigates this risk.

 

[gruso]

I've been patiently waiting for awhile, and if there is no credit card option I'll have to bow out. I looked at tranzfers.com and signed up for an account but they make you jump through a bunch of hoops, they said they were going to mail me something to verify my home address and I never got it, so I gave up. If there is no decent credit card option I'll have to wait until later sorry.

How long ago did you sign up? I think they have actual people send the mails out, as opposed to an automated system (and it's currently Friday night / Saturday morning in most places I think). They do require one-off "paper" confirmation of your ID before they can process transactions, just like a bank does. Which is good security.

 

[Esn]

I just want to know what is going on.

I can tell from the careful wording that there are some things that we're not being told, and perhaps there are good reasons for that because the people working against you might also read this forum, but there must be some way out from this maze.

Primarily:
-OpenPandora wants to get all 4000 preordered units of the 1st batch made, paid for and delivered
-The people who have been refunded but not yet reordered want some basic security for their order; the right to another refund if they do not receive the Pandora within X number of days

Is it really impossible to reconcile these two things?

I'd be willing to sign a contract of "delivery within 3 months", even, if I'd be assured a refund if that did not happen. What exactly is so difficult about such a thing? (I honestly do not know, there must be something...)

 

[Prometheus]

I don't know if this is of much help, but: Some credit card providers allow the holder to write cheques on the credit card account (if anyone's does, the provider probably sends some cheques in the post every once in a while, along with the information needed to know about using them) - this probably differs by card issuer, but may possibly be something that some may find worthy of looking into, at least.

 

[calzone]

OK Im sorry to be a dissenting voice but this all just sounds like a very insecure business if the are so desperate for cash from their purchasers UP FRONT!

It's all seeming so amateur. Yes I realise this project is an amateur one but the goalposts keep getting moved and this could all have been solved by openpandora acting like a proper business and not working like some backstreet company with their scammy ways to beat the credit card companies and their security measures. Measures that are in place to protect the consumer after all!!

If we are to have respect for openpandora then we need to see they have a totally secure business, backed by the banks and take credit card payment when the pandora is IN STOCK or at least within 1 month of launch and working within the rules set out by credit card processers!

Come on openpandora… get some finance, build the units, sell them, pay back the finance and start again on batch 2 with a ton of capital to work with.

As often stated in this current financial situation, businesses are going to the wall left right and centre and if 4000 of us hand over £200 each, that's £800,000 sat in their bank which if they were to go into administration because of 'unforseen delays' or maybe a supplier going bump/suing them etc then we all sit there having lost our money.

Credit cards provide us with security against such actions!

Can you imagine what the press would say if Sony said we want to release a PSP2 but people have to hand over money up front, and only then will we bolt them together and send you one maybe a month or two later! duh! I do wonder what the guys from 'dragons den' would make of all this?!


Just all sounds pitiful… excuses after excuses, blaming banks, trying to circumvent credit card companies - doesn't exactly inspire trust enough to hand over 200 readies by a bank transfer is it?!

Saying all that, if they stick to credit card orders and ship within the month after order then I'll go ahead, but bank transfer?? No way.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

Interesting. What if an e-mail receipt was sent after purchasing the CD or whatever that clearly stated a free Pandora was to sent at a later date? Then there would be some sort of written contract.

That just sounds so desperate


Heh. The CD should include 6 songs of "craigix sings the Pandora blues". Can we get the GP2X community to write some lyrics?
Now there's a deal. But wait there's more. If you act now we'll throw in a Pandora at some later undetermined date. Operaters are standing by.

 

[Alpha2]

the few people in europe and the supported regions that actually paid through tranzfers should be commended for their bravery... because that's the most insane choice I could ever imagine using.

Regardless though it's clearly not the most optimal situation for more people. If possible why not say they're selling A numbered card that states they're participation in the project, this way you can offer something official to the the first edition users and it shows the banks that you are offering people something for their money within the aloted time. Later those people with the first edition cards can expect the reward for their faith in the project in the form of a "free" Pandora.

Ultimately we're all investing in a future product the problem is that the companies we're dealing with look at it as a direct point of purchase situation rather than an attempt to put money towards a company that is making something we want to see the light of day.

 

[Esn]

Interesting. What if an e-mail receipt was sent after purchasing the CD or whatever that clearly stated a free Pandora was to sent at a later date? Then there would be some sort of written contract.

That just sounds so desperate

It's a bad idea, because

1) if the "free Pandora" is not explicitly promised, it doesn't solve the problem of security
2) if the "free Pandora" IS explicitly promised, it breaks the bank's rules, because you're still promising delivery of something

 

[monvmentvm]

the few people in europe and the supported regions that actually paid through tranzfers should be commended for their bravery... because that's the most insane choice I could ever imagine using.

Regardless though it's clearly not the most optimal situation for more people. If possible why not say they're selling A numbered card that states they're participation in the project, this way you can offer something official to the the first edition users and it shows the banks that you are offering people something for their money within the aloted time. Later those people with the first edition cards can expect the reward for their faith in the project in the form of a "free" Pandora.

Ultimately we're all investing in a future product the problem is that the companies we're dealing with look at it as a direct point of purchase situation rather than an attempt to put money towards a company that is making something we want to see the light of day.

Hmm... that sounds like a good clarification of the real problem and solution too.

I'm one of the bank transferers and I still trust openpandora, even though some of the posts really made me swallow my tongue halfway.

Keep up the good work!

 

[(naw)mcx]

Oh dear.

I have so much trust in Craig and the team, I know it WILL come. I'm not sure the CD idea is good. That sounds really dodgy, at least for the bank, I'm afraid.

We really need to sort this out, this is really getting a bit out of hand. What did Craig do, step under a row of ladders, while smashing mirrors and tripping over black cats?

 

[EmuGuy]

This probably won't help, but is there any chance of making two or more 'payments'? Perhaps some people would be more willing to take a chance risking some amount ($100?) at a time, rather than all at once? Dunno if that helps, I'm not a banker, I'm a lowly consumer.

Like a deposit or downpayment. It all depends how much money the team needs to finish this project though!

Probably more trouble than it's worth. Just trying to think outside Pandora's Box here...

The CD idea sounds very sketchy to me.

 

[Phawx]

Keep spirits high guys. As a community we've all come WAY to fucking far for this to end. We ALL want the Pandora, let's see it through to the end.

 

[restless1]

I second that if things were are fake we would not have to go through all theses hoops....have faith we have been at this for three years (Which I have been told from first inception).... Lets get back to the grind stone and work it all out...

 

[mali]

Keep spirits high guys. As a community we've all come WAY to fucking far for this to end. We ALL want the Pandora, let's see it through to the end.

+1
I've sent the money exactly three and a half months ago by bank transfer. I'm still positive

 

[gruso]

Keep spirits high guys. As a community we've all come WAY to fucking far for this to end. We ALL want the Pandora, let's see it through to the end.

Keep spirits high guys. As a community we've all come WAY to fucking far for this to end. We ALL want the Pandora, let's see it through to the end.

Worth quoting twice.

 

[Eniko]

I'm not missing any points. You can ask AMEX customers about the "security" of their money. (Thankfully it looks like they'll get looked after either way).

Right now, my bank transferred money has more chance of being traced & reclaimed than any money on the wrong side of the AMEX double-brick wall.

Not that there's any chance I'll go down that path, because I trust the developers and want the project to forge ahead. It would be great if more people felt this way.

I'm with you. I just can't understand how people can order by credit card, get their money refunded, freak out about coming up short due to exchange rates, even have their money arbitrarily put in limbo, and then turn around and demand to do it all over again because it's supposedly "safer". I'll be over here on the other side of the fence happily ignoring all this stuff after this reply again, feeling completely secure and safe in the knowledge that my money has actually reached the developers and can't be shuffled around or arbitrarily put into limbo by inept bankers, all the while costing me even more money.

And because apparently some of you missed this the last time the reordering storm broke loose; it is not a sign of amateurs for them to prefer bank transfers. To many of us (europeans) this is the most normal thing in the world, and that means it may seem that way from your cultural perspective but that doesn't actually make it a general truth.

I'm probably arguing with a wall here but I patently dislike it being insinuated that I and others like me are "insane" for paying by bank transfer when it's the most normal thing in the world where I live to pay for virtually anything by banktransfer. We're not insane, we're not brave, we do not need to be commended. Consider for a moment - if you're one of the people who thinks this - that you look as paranoid to us as we look "brave" (insane) to you.

Also the CD thing sounds like a terribly reckless idea. As someone who's already paid for her Pandora I don't really think endangering the whole thing by trying to defraud anti-fraud measures is wise.

 

[puppydee]

SO are we gonna have to do the refund again? I've already repaid by google checkout by credit card so what is gonna happen? I'm directing this to the OpenPandora team

 

[restless1]

I was just wondering can Craigx take donations lets say half up front then the rest By CC when a confirmed shipping Millstone is met
The method of donations could be up for debate and how to do it

 

[a.tom]

Don't make me get Steve Ballmer in here to shout "transfer" 35 times.

+1
Please do the Ballmer for us

There are of course some quite good points from the concerned people - but actually... you all shouldn't have preordered a non-existing device if you think it could be scam or something (of course it would have been better not to take cc orders at all for the first batch).

Early adaptors always take the risk... so i can just repeat what gruso said "I really wish more people would consider transfers". Otherwise cancel your order and go for the second batch. Personally i would be happy to get another one or two and pay by bank transfer as for the first one (because i'm sure some of my friends will want to have one). As Eniko said this is normal business over her in europe.