Transfers... Tranzfers..

[stustaff]

RMM21 your missing the point! no one is suggesting its a SCAM the reason people want security of CC is because there ARE things outside of the pandora teams control( as we have seen numerous times) the reason to want security is because no one can guarantee it WILL ship.

thats why a bank transfer isnt great.

And in europe paying with a bank transfer for an item from a shop (physical or online) is not usual practice by any means, I have never done it or been asked to in 15 years of buying a lot.

 

[WizardStan]

For the record I'm not talking about the people that simply can't, but more the people who could but don't want to who keep prattling on about how much "safer" it is to do it by credit card when they've been burnt by their supposedly safe method already.

I would gladly pay by bank transfer if it were easy and cheap. My bank makes it easy, at a cost of $40. transferz makes it cheap but I have to sign up, get a letter, and sign a blood oath over a virgin sacrifice. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a virgin in this day and age? Curse you craigslist!
hmmm...
Is there any reason we can't just use paypal to just send the money? I've used paypal many times to send money to friends in dire need, I don't see how it would be much different from an actual bank transfer. You're not actually buying anything, per se, just sending them money, same as it would be via a bank transfer. Or am I missing something else here?

 

[Tom`]

QUOTE
I don't know about Europe, but in America, if someone (say, on eBay, or by telephone, or any other form of communication regarding sales not in a physical shop) asks you to pay for anything by direct bank transfer, it's like a big flashing sign that says SCAM.
You do know about Europe, I told you about Europe, and gbax operates out of Europe.

Okay, but you're missing my actual point - which is that no matter how trusted it is in Europe, in America if you go to your bank and say "I got stiffed by this guy overseas, I want my money back" they'll very likely just laugh at you and tell you you should have known bank transfers weren't a secure way to pay for anything.

For that matter, how does it actually work in Europe? I know they've got more consumer-protection laws there - do people have more legal recourse, or do people just trust each other more?

It seems to me that it still comes down to whether you're willing to trust Craig completely with your money.

 

[mali]

Is there any reason we can't just use paypal to just send the money? I've used paypal many times to send money to friends in dire need, I don't see how it would be much different from an actual bank transfer. You're not actually buying anything, per se, just sending them money, same as it would be via a bank transfer. Or am I missing something else here?

They have frozen Craig's Paypal account once. You can be sure, that it has still got a blinking warning sign attached to it.

edit:
We should throw the whole thread into the trash bin and start a new discussion, without CD and such.
Just IMO

 

[stustaff]

Okay, but you're missing my actual point - which is that no matter how trusted it is in Europe, in America if you go to your bank and say "I got stiffed by this guy overseas, I want my money back" they'll very likely just laugh at you and tell you you should have known bank transfers weren't a secure way to pay for anything.

For that matter, how does it actually work in Europe? I know they've got more consumer-protection laws there - do people have more legal recourse, or do people just trust each other more?

It seems to me that it still comes down to whether you're willing to trust Craig completely with your money.



As i posted above mate know one I know would ever buy a normal item like this by going to their bank!?

You would pay by credit card, debit card, cash or cheque or paypal in the shop or on the companies website.

 

[Eniko]

For that matter, how does it actually work in Europe? I know they've got more consumer-protection laws there - do people have more legal recourse, or do people just trust each other more?
I don't know. I've paid for untold things by bank transfer all my life and never have I run into a situation where I even needed to know this kind of stuff. That ought to say something, I do believe.
QUOTE
It seems to me that it still comes down to whether you're willing to trust Craig completely with your money.
From what I've seen and past experiences (I had to reorder too) I trust Craig with my money a hell of a lot more than the banks and credit card companies. Just look at their old bank and Amex. Of course, that's my personal judgement. But I still don't see after everything that went wrong credit card wise how people can still think it's all that "safe".

 

[Tom`]

EDIT: Anyway I'm not saying "wow you guys suck for being so paranoid", I'm just sick of seeing the same things pointed out here that were hashed out a few bazgillion times the last time this all went down. Yes, in the US bank transfer reeks of scam. Yes, in parts of Europe bank transfers are completely normal. Yes, in Australia they also do bank transfers but not quite the same way. But yet again people are misrepresenting Craig and co's intentions by tarring the entire world with their cultural brush, when if they'd paid attention before they would almost certainly already know that just because in America "bank transfer == scam" that doesn't make it true the world over and that thus it doesn't make it at all necessarily true in this instance.

I am quite aware of this - as I've said, I trust Craig and co's intentions completely. I'm just saying that by being asked to do the bank transfer, we're being asked to trust not only his intentions and honesty and whatever, but also his ability to resolve all this financial stuff - for which solutions have hardly been forthcoming so far (working solutions, that is).

 

[puppydee]

Will the people who have already pre-ordered again using a credit card have to be refunded again????????????????????????????????????

 

[TimmyB]

I haven't seen this answered yet, sorry if it has...

If we've already received a Google Checkout email then do we already have our amount 'reserved' for payment before the limit was reached? Or will no more Google Checkout payments be accepted?

 

[Tom`]

Will the people who have already pre-ordered again using a credit card have to be refunded again????????????????????????????????????

I don't think so - as I understand it, Google Checkout (if that's how you paid) only accepted a certain number of orders, but those orders have been successfully completed.

 

[Yigguth]

I'm sick of this crap.
Let me know when you guys have your shit together

 

[monvmentvm]

RMM21 your missing the point! no one is suggesting its a SCAM the reason people want security of CC is because there ARE things outside of the pandora teams control( as we have seen numerous times) the reason to want security is because no one can guarantee it WILL ship.

thats why a bank transfer isnt great.

And in europe paying with a bank transfer for an item from a shop (physical or online) is not usual practice by any means, I have never done it or been asked to in 15 years of buying a lot.

It _is_ pretty much standard to pay via bank transfer in Europe; almost everywhere CC is also accepted though. It's just that CC aren't that widely spread because people don't really need it here.

The only reason I own a credit card personally, is for things I order outside of Europe, which is mostly the US or when I need paypal.

I also wouldn't rate credit cards to be more secure than bank transfers. The only reason that the banks have to guarantee to refund the money if something goes wrong, is just because a lot of things for CC users go wrong. They get stolen quite often AND you can pay quite everything with a stolen card. Stealing cc numbers off the internet isn't that hard either. That's why these banks have to guarantee to you that they can work it out. But as you can see with AMEX, it doesn't have to work always .

On the other hand: What can you do with a stolen debit card? Or with a stolen bank account number? The answer is: simply nothing. And at least here in Austria if something goes wrong with a payment, you have some weeks time to contact the bank and tell them that it was a fraud or whatever and the money has to be retrieved, and that's exactly what will happen.

 

[stustaff]

It _is_ pretty much standard to pay via bank transfer in Europe; almost everywhere CC is also accepted though. It's just that CC aren't that widely spread because people don't really need it here.

The only reason I own a credit card personally, is for things I order outside of Europe, which is mostly the US or when I need paypal.

I also wouldn't rate credit cards to be more secure than bank transfers. The only reason that the banks have to guarantee to refund the money if something goes wrong, is just because a lot of things for CC users go wrong. They get stolen quite often AND you can pay quite everything with a stolen card. Stealing cc numbers off the internet isn't that hard either. That's why these banks have to guarantee to you that they can work it out. But as you can see with AMEX, it doesn't have to work always .

On the other hand: What can you do with a stolen debit card? Or with a stolen bank account number? The answer is: simply nothing. And at least here in Austria if something goes wrong with a payment, you have some weeks time to contact the bank and tell them that it was a fraud or whatever and the money has to be retrieved, and that's exactly what will happen.

You wouldnt rate CC more secure?? of course it is for the buyer! in this instance we arent talking about if it gets lost or stolen etc we are talking about the security in purchasing a pandora and the facts are...
if I pay on credit card and Pandora disapear I WILL get my money back.
If I pay via Bank transfer and they disapear I WONT get my money back.
Bank transfers are NOT common place in the UK or anywhere else in my experience for buying an item from a shop! maybe you could give an example of a shop which does this I cant think of a single one.

 

[Mjlink]

has anyone @ Open Pandora or anyone else (Amex people) spoke with a lawyer on this.

I don't know how businesses setup in the UK but a private corporation in the US can form a charter & deligate the sale of 3800 shares of stock to which we become shareholders on Open Pandora Inc. OP can buy the shares back or pay dividends once profits are workable.

I've never went through this and this is not fact, just speculative.

 

[Eniko]

Here we go again...

if I pay on credit card and Pandora disapear I WILL get my money back.
Unless you uh... don't. Ask the Amex users if they've seen a penny yet, and that's with Craig actively trying to get them their money back.

Bank transfers are NOT common place in the UK or anywhere else in my experience for buying an item from a shop! maybe you could give an example of a shop which does this I cant think of a single one.

Here you go

 

[marshal]

As a side note in Switzerland a lot of online shop accept both credit card and bank transfer. Some of them do charge extra for credit card, so if you're buying an expensive item you're better of not paying by credit card from a price point of view. Then some shop send you the item with a bill (no kidding !! well that's normally possible only up to a certain amount tough) or COD (which is more expensive).

Generally speaking I think it's fair that if you order by bank transfer you pay less than by CC because CC just have more cost that the shop has to support.
That is of course not in the interest of credit card company and they have always wanted not to allow the shop to charge more for purchase made with a credit card. I don't know the exact detail but I think it was at some point considered against antitrust law and shop are now able to actually charge more for CC order in Switzerland.

 

[puppydee]

Will the people who have already pre-ordered again using a credit card have to be refunded again????????????????????????????????????

I don't think so - as I understand it, Google Checkout (if that's how you paid) only accepted a certain number of orders, but those orders have been successfully completed.


phew "wipes brow", was begining to think I was invisable and yes I paid with google checkout...

On a lighter note, just been playing that World of goo. Hope they do port it to the Pandora, that would be the nutz

 

[stustaff]

Here we go again...

if I pay on credit card and Pandora disapear I WILL get my money back.
Unless you uh... don't. Ask the Amex users if they've seen a penny yet, and that's with Craig actively trying to get them their money back.

Bank transfers are NOT common place in the UK or anywhere else in my experience for buying an item from a shop! maybe you could give an example of a shop which does this I cant think of a single one.

Here you go


American express at least in the UK is not a credit card! its an American express, in fact it couldnt be further from a credit card as the balance is paid in full each month.

That link doesnt show a shop? just part of this discussion from earlier so not sure what you mean?

The point is People like when they spend their money to have an assurance(as provided by CC) that they will get the item or the money, especially with a small company that has not yet demonstrated a working product.

Bank transfer however usual outside of the UK and europe can not give that, hence peoples concern.

 

[lobski]

I didnt read through all the thread, but what happens to those who can only use a credit card? No idea yet?

 

[fischju2000]

I didnt read through all the thread, but what happens to those who can only use a credit card? No idea yet?

They can use a bank tranfser site like this one or xoom to take money from CC and wire transfer it.