Transfers... Tranzfers..

[Monk]

The credit card route is just causing us nightmares if we don't ship anything.

As others have said, posisbly more eloquently and even passionately than I, so take my money when you're ready to ship my product.

You're right - there's an element of trust in this community like few others I've ever seen. Trust me to still be around and willing to pay when you've got Pandoras ready to ship us. We aren't going to run away with out money over another 15, 30, 45 or 60 days. We'll still be here, credit cards in hand.

Trust me - I want a Pandora - at least one!

Monk

 

[Miknal]

No offence, but I think most people want at least a solid shipping date before handing over their money again.

 

[gpx74532]

What do you think? The credit card route is just causing us nightmares if we don't ship anything. (and in general)

I am wanting to reorder by Credit Card but purely for the reason as this is the first time I have been involved in this type of community project I am obviously a bit wary. I could pay by bank transfer but I am just a little bit uneasy about handing over £200+ once P&P and the development fund has been added for a product that I have not even seen.

I think someone has already asked but is their a particular reason why you need us to pay now when there is not even an official release date and it *could* be months away?

The problem could be solved by not taking Credit Card orders until you have sent everything to be built (e.g. PCBs, cases etc) and know you can deliver within 30 days.

If everything goes to plan March 2009 is looking like a possible release is waiting another 4 weeks or so going to make a big difference before you can take the CC orders?

My main concern is I do not want to loose a first batch Pandora and the fact all administration appears to be manual so it is difficult to know whether everything is working with your order. I would feel better if there was some kind of web site I could enter my order number or order email address and get details on my order. E.g. Position In Queue, First Ordered Date, Received By CC Date, Received By Transfer Date etc.

 

[God Ginrai]

Oh and if HSBC really won't refund those AMEX orders we will just have to take the hit and honour them anyway. I've had a meeting with them about it but I may as well have been speaking to a brick wall.

Thank you so much. It makes me sad that they won't give the refunds. :\

So, Tranzfers, CD, what do you think?

I would suggest CD, seeing as they would have something to hoard over their friends saying: "And soon, my Pandora will come, too!"

-God Ginrai

 

[kaldrill]

I wil reorder by bank transfer as soon as I receive the needed information by an "official" way. I was refund but never recevie any email from openpandora for the reordering.

 

[benjiro]

The problem could be solved by not taking Credit Card orders until you have sent everything to be built (e.g. PCBs, cases etc) and know you can deliver within 30 days.

Agree's...

Whats the big deal? Stick to the 30 day delivery date, or the 20 day delivery date on paypal for the reorders, and there is no reason to deal with bank transfers.

At last count, at leased 1000+ people payed by bank transfer ( off those with the CC orders if i remember correctly from a older post )... So, how many are left that need to pay?

 

[torpor]

DISCLAIMER: I paid by credit card *TWICE* to ensure I get my Pandora on time, and I hope I still do. I can't wait for Pandora to arrive. I trust Craig and Co, but I understand - also - the realities of life on the commercial plane. You simply cannot involve credit card processing facilities without having a product ready to ship, and expect to get away with it.

The problem here can be expressed thus:

Point A: People want to pre-order to make sure they get their Pandora fast.
Point B: The Pandora is not ready to ship yet.
Point C: Banks won't (typically) take credit card orders if there is no shipping product - this is a *HUGE* liability for them (the banks), and well .. fair enough. It is well and truly within their rights to refuse to take money from someone if they are not going to be getting anything shipped to them.

Fact: it is FRAUD to take someones money, for a product which does not exist, and not ship them that product - within 30 days. I am not saying that Craig and Co. are fraudsters - my experience with them has been more than positive over the years - but on the commercial plane, its not difficult to see that *some* people are wary.

The only solution: stop taking credit card orders until you are ready to ship. All of this back-and-forth can only be doing negative things - distracting you from actually getting the product ready to ship. So, just quit it with the credit card orders, and let the early-adopters put their money where their mouth is - by bank transfer, directly, without involving the credit card fraud policies of most major banks.


Also: NO! DO NOT DO THE "shipping you a CD and the Pandora is free later" deal, Craig!!! *IF* something happens - hopefully not likely, but possible nevertheless - and you *cannot* ship Pandora, you will be in for a huge bag of hurt if you do this CD-instead-of-Pandora deal in an attempt to get around the FRAUD policies of credit card banks.

It has nothing to do with the globaly economy and everything to do with FRAUD laws which have been in place for years. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you cannot take credit card orders if you're not prepared to ship within 30 days. So, just don't do it.

Remember: I've paid *TWICE* by credit card for my Pandora 'slot', so I'm willing to participate in the grey area. Just saying: things really are black and white with this. Global economy woes have nothing to do with it; FRAUD law is what this is all about ...

 

[craigix]

Amex orders, I know this is not the answer and a bad thing to say but:

Give your HSBC branch details, Managers name to us so we can politely call him and ask him to where our money is....?

I once told them I'd do that and they just said they would refuse to take the call.

 

[stustaff]

Wow I came into a thread expecting to see info about stickers to apply to my pandora and get this.

Well i have to add a +1 to the idea of you taking credit card payments once you have a product to post, I pre ordered happily using my CC as wanted the protection.

Many things that were unforseen by the dev team(not a fault with them just unforseen things happen) have meant delays and there could be unforseen reasons why they never ship! thats why unfortunately I dont want to pay without the security of a CC.

Craigix you just replied but seemed to not respond to the comment about taking orders once you actually have completed stock to sell how realistic is that option? as it would on paper seem to solve all of the issues.

 

[hells_dark]

I can do nothing but using my cc...so..

 

[Bosbeetle]

All these pandora people living of credit

 

[theehman]

How about just sending a "share certificate" entitling you to redeem at a later date for a Pandora? It could include a unique coupon code that could be redeemed at checkout when placing the actual Pandora order at a later date e.g.: when you receive an email saying your Pandora is ready to be shipped and you need to place your order now.

 

[Matt2k]

bleah, it is not about living off credit, it is security and not having to spend more than we thought.
I lost about $60 from the refunding process and now I'm expected to lose another $42 for transfer fees.
That just isn't fair. $100 is a lot of money to lose.

I want one as bad as the next person. I say wait for the Pandoras to be fully made and shipped and then put the credit card page up.

Anyone else who wants to pay by a different means now, go right ahead.

 

[gibberish]

you already said you have enough money to produce 4000 pandoras. so produce them, and then sell them. forget all this pre-orders nonsense - it turned out to be nothing but a headache and i dont know why you pursue it.

 

[Phawx]

All these pandora people living of credit

I pay off my CC at the end of every month. I enjoy the convenience, perks and security they provide. Just have to know self control.

On topic, I am still trying to work out the dispute with American Express. I just checked again and they want more information. So I have to call and find out what type of information they are looking for.

you already said you have enough money to produce 4000 pandoras. so produce them, and then sell them. forget all this pre-orders nonsense - it turned out to be nothing but a headache and i dont know why you pursue it.

I read they only had enough money to produce 2000 of them. But they already paid in full for all 4000 LCDs, so maybe now they can only produce 1200 FULL Pandora's

 

[MonkeyChops]

I gather 2 things from all of this. And please correct me if I'm wrong. You need money to finish the project and there is no way the pandora will ship in the next month and a half.

I seriously doubt everyone will want to take the risk involved with either the bank transfers or paying $300 plus for a cd with no way of knowing for sure they will get a "free" pandora later. A lot, if not most, of the people want to use a cc for the security of the charge back which would be ineffective if we never get our free gift. Plus I doubt the banks would fall for such a ploy.

If this is all about money to finish the project then I'd say your ony choice is to get a line of credit.

If its not then your only choice is to wait till you can for sure ship within 30 days to take the cc orders. Which seems like such an easy answer that there has to be more to this story.

What a freaking nightmare, I hope its not about money to finish the project. If it is, I hope you have not already extended your credit. If you haven't Its not really fair to put the risk on your customers. Bite the bullet and put you house on the line and get some credit to finish your business plan. With the buzz the pandora is getting, I'm sure it will pay off in the end. I work in a family business and we have had to take out loans on our personal property multiple times to keep business rolling and it worked out in the end.

As for the amex situation, I know its been said before and maybe you already have one but, you seriously need a lawyer(or better one than you have).

It sounds like you are really in a hard spot, I wish the best to you.

 

[marshal]

I don't know the exact business plan that what behind the pandora to begin with, if there ever was one. That being said counting on ppl paying in advance when there is no product risky isn't really usual and it's risky business.
No offence but the whole thing behind the CC preorder surely was predictable and has not much to do with the economic crisis.

That being said I am certainly not claiming that the pandora is a scam. I am sure you are doing your best to bring the pandora to us as fast as possible. I certainly hope the project won't fail because of some bad planning and possible cash-flow problems.

Also I am strongly against your cd solution... it will just make the project look even more fishy and unprofessional for ppl not familiar with it.

The fact that many ppl paid you by bank transfer kind of show that they have enough trust in the project. Can't you just do the CC order once you're sure the product will be shipping in 4 weeks or even when the first pandora actually ships.

 

[smanky]

Here's an idea - why don't you just wait until they're in and ready to ship and THEN take CC orders, and mail them out as you get the orders in?

Or if you need some more money to fund it, why don't you ask for $50/euros/pounds non-refundable deposit, and take the rest of the money when they're ready to ship.

 

[cbp]

@Craigx.

Do you guys have the money to build the Pandoras?

From what you previously said, I assume that you do.

Right now, the only reason for pre-orders is to have the pandora faster, and to ensure that you are within the first 4000 people to order.
This is already done. The pre-orders were done and people that pre-ordered are ensured to have their spot in the queue and their Pandora regardless if they have been refunded or not.

As we are ensured that, if we've pre-ordered, we will get the pandora, why not ask for the money only when ready to ship / orderings open? The CCs will have to allow it then.


Whatever Pandoras are left, can be used at order time. They will sell just as fast as during pre-orders. So no loss there.

 

[Prophet]

I read the first page...

Honestly this is all just making my head hurt. Have enough problems these day, this is just becoming another one.

I wish I could sound positive, but all I know right now is I'm out $70 for something I may never see.

When there's a simple, sensible, safe way to do things, and when the Pandora is actually ready, I'll buy it. And at this point, mainly because if I don't, then I have to swallow losing $70 for nothing.