Tisk Tisk Craig


DaveC said:
As far as the DS, well if OP was a multi-billion dollar multi national corporation like Nintendo then things would be different. They probably had a whole bunch of working prototypes with full molds to try and they probably went through a bunch of revisions and scrap whole mold sets for the final one. Even then the first DS lites had cracking hinges, and that is from NINTENDO. OP can't afford 10 million dollars or so to develop the Pandora. There was only one Pandora mold and that is all that could be funded. Are there minor things that could be tweaked? Sure but without unlimited cash they will need to wait.
Yes and I don't want to compare the NDS to the Pandora. It just was ablut complexity of the Devices. ^^
The pandora is actualy well enough designed and I know most of the issues are just avoidable QC problems, I already recommended torque adjustable screwdrivers during assembling so the screws don't get to tight - little things like that can make the difference. But the bigger Problems of the Pandora like the ongoing shoulder Buttons shouldn't be. The Case Factory messed over a year onto the Molds, made many prototypes etc... I really wonder why the shoulder buttons are a problem at all after this long time (I'm not speaking about wrong soldered switches onto the PCB). I've seen the design of the buttons and I can't imagine what shouldn't work there. The fitting problems because of the paint are past, I hope. Maybe this little area that actualy pushes the button onto the pcb is to thin and misses the button if the piece doesn't fit completely, can't judge about this without seeing a real piece.
But over all this are just little issues that maybe can be eliminated in the future. The good thing is, we learned so much during the Pandora development, that a new project in this direction just can benefit from it. :) This is a very positive thing IMHO. ^^
 
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Exophase said:
Ah, pretty new thread. A lot of the people voting just got their Pandoras and haven't had a lot of time for them to fail, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.. if the nubs are really fixed and the LCD cable problem was reduced or eliminated somehow then there should be a lot fewer unhappy people.

25% is still pretty bad, though, IMO..
I agree with you, but keep in mind that only about 100 people have posted and many more Pandoras have shipped. People with issues are more likely to show up on the boards for help and post in such threads than people whose unit works 100% fine.

It's a bit disappointing that many of the issues which actually do happen could have easily been avoided by having better quality control. I suppose this is the learning curve for setting up such a production facility and the pressure of the community to ship as quickly as possible.
 
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fusion_power said:
... I really wonder why the shoulder buttons are a problem at all after this long time (I'm not speaking about wrong soldered switches onto the PCB). I've seen the design of the buttons and I can't imagine what shouldn't work there. The fitting problems because of the paint are past, I hope. Maybe this little area that actualy pushes the button onto the pcb is to thin and misses the button if the piece doesn't fit completely, can't judge about this without seeing a real piece.
IIRC, the problem with the shoulder buttons was said to be because the board company was setting them on the board slightly too far back; even though they weren't told to change anything with the buttons.
 
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Tripmonkey_uk said:
IIRC, the problem with the shoulder buttons was said to be because the board company was setting them on the board slightly too far back; even though they weren't told to change anything with the buttons.
There was indeed a batch which suffered from that problem. I've had to thicken the tape on my left shoulder button in order to make it click.

Regardless, my impression is that the left shoulder button has a bit less (too little?) room to travel, due to the shape of the case. I.e. the right shoulder button can rotate further outwards than the left one can. I'm not sure it's serious enough to be the cause of the problem of the left button not clicking, but it might play a role.
 
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Caine said:
Tripmonkey_uk said:
IIRC, the problem with the shoulder buttons was said to be because the board company was setting them on the board slightly too far back; even though they weren't told to change anything with the buttons.
There was indeed a batch which suffered from that problem. I've had to thicken the tape on my left shoulder button in order to make it click.

Regardless, my impression is that the left shoulder button has a bit less (too little?) room to travel, due to the shape of the case. I.e. the right shoulder button can rotate further outwards than the left one can. I'm not sure it's serious enough to be the cause of the problem of the left button not clicking, but it might play a role.
Does this mean, the shoulder buttons have a slightly different shape/tolerance/measurements in general that make them act different on left and right side?
 
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fusion_power said:
Does this mean, the shoulder buttons have a slightly different shape/tolerance/measurements in general that make them act different on left and right side?
It means that in my perception of the case (and I'm no expert on this), the right shoulder button will always have (a little bit) more travel than the left. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a bit hard to judge properly in my unit as the left one is flawed and barely clicks at all (probably an improperly placed switch and insufficient padding on the button).
 
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Yay for craigs ego.
Sadly craigs ego reduces the goodness of this project by 20 percent.

3rd Pandora is fucking piss poor. Sort it owt.
Saying that mine arrived first time perfect.
 
fearofshorts said:
People, look- Multiple RMAs from one person?
I mean, come on. The number of complaints and the "silent majority" mean nothing compared to that fact.
From a probability standpoint this is indicating a very, VERY high level of failed units.

I think it's more likely that early RMAs were from recycled stock, which greatly increased the probability of multiple failures.
 
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Caine, I can sympathize since my current Pandora has issues with the left shoulder button.
 
I wish to disagree with a small point in this debacle.

Azure has not received 3 defective units. Neither has anyone else.

Azure has stated himself aswell, that he has infact not received 3 defective units at all but rather just 1.

His first two were otherwise fine, (except being early models from batches prior to the lay off for nub re-design), but have unfortunately suffered death of one or other nub, which can and will happen eventually perhaps to many, of the many more already wild Pandorae. ED and Craig still have original prototype units that still work fine for example. As must a silent majority. Prometheus was a case in point of how rapidly this can ironically strike however.

The LCD cables again are a random issue aswell, as many of the first 100-200 (OPT claims vary) are still going strong. ED and Craigixs' for example.

Then the tool was used on further units and as we have no definite database of which units have received which treatment (i.e the 2nd 100 units made in non-sequential stickers, mixed in with everyone since), we have no way of knowing how many of the original cable type, since the tools implementation, have failed.


The new cables still aren't in mass production, or useage yet. Thus they also, have yet to be proven to have fixed this potential issue.

I highly doubt all the old cables will be dumped in favour of the new ones once mass produced either. To do so would be financial madness, so this issue is also to be expected to occasionally continue on unlucky units.

Nubs on first nub design boards, cables from the first 100 in sequence and the 2nd hundred mixed in with the others 'tool placed' ones, until the newer cables are the only stock in use, can imhho, be expected to fail at some point.

Hence grievances with those issues, is a non issue to any Pandorian that has followed the project via the boards since they pre-ordered.

Those that forgot about their investment maybe valid in being initially disgruntled on receipt of a unit that soon dies from one of the above 2 issues. Everyone else should accept it, as par for the projects ongoing development, as Azure clearly does.

The remaining issues breakdown into two more categories:

1) Case defects: It is well known as DaveC has just posted, that the molds for the cases, after many delaying tweaks, still suffer from a few very minor cosmetic issues due to the painting process required to mask an unsatisfactory result from the Chinese factory. Bless them for trying under possibly better than mosts crappy conditions out there.

a) Bezel Bowing, a potential to crack around the USB ports and an enigmatic smile created from the hinge assemblies pressures maybe present on/or manifest to various degrees after arrival.

B) Shoulder button issues - original units can be perfect or suffer from some degree of less than desirable shoulder button functionality. Usually this is user fixable by those capable of not damaging the rest of the unit under warranty.

c) Face buttons or keymat buttons are squishy/stuck, or harder to press than others - These issues are again mold defects of either and usually can be corrected through some useage or opening the cases and trimming some flash of plastic from the molds, or excess resin on a keymat button. Again these are currently to be expected BUT given the ease of correction during assembly they should not be occurring anymore.

2) New defects - Anyone receiving a unit from the initial return to mass production can expect that CircuitCO had a mishap they priorly had avoided, in that these newer boards can suffer from 3 new issues.

a) Shoulder buttons - a mishap has caused some boards to be populated with shoulder button microswitches which are positioned incorrectly. This has led to OPT adding foam pads to one, both or neither of the buttons to compensate. The feedback is that the feel is improved but in some cases, the pads have slipped during final case assembly (should've been caught by QC) or unavoidably during shipping. This issue has again been caught early and production slowed, to fix this and correct any boards that have this issue prior to further shipments being made. Given case 1) B) shoulder buttons can still be odd even if the motherboard has correctly soldered shoulder microswitches and this should be bourne in mind.

B) Melted volume wheels - This has happened a number of times and frankly if this isn't a part that CC add to the boards, then this is simply sloppy workmanship during assembly and poor QC.

c) SD card slot problems - A number of even more recent boards from CC have proven to have defective SD card slots that will not accept a card or jam a card in place. This is usually fixed by the user, a screw driver and simply pulling the card back out. On re-insertion often the spring locking mechanism is fine and everything is normal thereafter. In a few cases these are being RMA'd to more fully examine and re-solvve this issue.

d) Carbon contacts on keymats missing - This has also hit a few users, where certain keys don't function correctly, as somehow production has missed some carbon/graphite from the contact points of the keymat. Somehow the QC OP-input applications testing has missed this. The fix offered by Evil Dragon has been the purchase of a graphite spray to apply manually with a matchstick, a small amount of this material to the underside of the affected key, to complete the circuit properly.

e) D-pad issues - DaveC's Dpad is among the best ever designed and a few folk have been unfortunate enough to receive units that are defective in this respect, as some have had to either wear in their d-pad in a certain direction, or in Azure's case, it clearly has severe issues, rendering an important part of the Pandoras' control set redundant. Its unclear what is the cause of this issue, unless its a mix of lacking carbon, molding errors or assembly mishaps.

f) Strange Battery behaviours - Since the 2nd resumption of mass production after the shoulder button issue, a number of users premium bought or otherwise, appear to have units where the battery contacts are giving issues, resulting in random charging behaviour, incomplete charging cycles and spontaneously sentient self awakening Pandora's. Mostly this is fixed with the older boards solution of loose battery contact giving erratic behaviour and a simple piece of paper under the battery cover and perhaps on the empty end(to keep the battery from moving laterally), has solved this issue. It is still being explored in the cases of incomplete charging cycles.


I've personally had 2 fantastic early units, with nothing but the minor cosmetic case bezel bow. However the LCD died on number 1 and was RMA'd. I received a replacement rather than the same machine fixed that I expected and it again was flawless, except its left nub later died and its LCD cable is almost dead. A part of me would like the same unit returned with the newer nubs and the latest LCD cables (which still aren't in mass production or general assembly units to my understanding) but that would be a hassle and no doubt introduce huge delays to any RMA. The other part simply wants an RMA and a fresh unit, whether salvaged from previous or entirely newly built. Both are equally likely and I doubt I would be able to tell, as my 2nd unit must have been a re-conditioned one (from the first 100) and yet appeared to be brand spanking new!

I therefore feel that any existant users from the first batches should've expected and not grumbled at, any issues in :

1) a) i.e a smiling bowing crack :) as it was loveable that way on arrival and only with the passing days and increased useage may it begin to fail to appease your gadget love.

B) Shoulder buttons - as this is an ongoing issue and user fixable under OPT instruction and we should be thankful we have earlier boards that dont have a physical defect in this area. Merely an issue with the paintwork.

c) Face/Keymat button issues - As the first of batch 1, any with these issues should have them sorted by now by themself or via an RMA. Anyone newer than that has a right to bitch, as this should not be occurring in any of the newer board batches that have been passed as shippable.

People with newer boards since January:

You should potentially expect any of point 2 :

a) Shoulder button issues - due to early new board batch with duff positioned microswitches.

B) Melted volume wheels - No excuse here.

c) SD card slot problem - Another CC production issue since January like a). This cannot be helped and will be fixed in future boards. It should prove user fixable on any units it affects for now. Or RMA.

d)Carbon contacts missing on keymats - This is again a mass production error where a few rogue examples have slipped through. User fixable. OPT shouldn't really be blamed for this, except QC tests beyond the use of the op_input_test program are clearly needed to ensure that the full control set is not just registering a button press but is in fact fully playable. Perhaps some volunteers from the community could actually spend time play testing units before they are packaged for postage?

e)D-Pad issues - this is new and goes with d). Sufficient play testing of the controls is not happening and thus this is getting missed at QC as it is beyond its current remit. Which clearly needs expanding.

f) Battery issues - This is to be investigated. Slightly erratic behaviour was priorly easily fixed and no doubt the under-charging issues will be sorted out soon.

Everyone should expect their 1st version nubs to possibly fail, as could their 1st version LCD cable, tool placed or otherwise.

Therefore anyone embarking afresh on a purchase of a Pandora / or those still waiting from a pre-order, should expect and accept some of these issues may occur to the unit you receive. As it is just getting going for now.

They should also bear in mind that that history has been made here.

A few guys with the know how, got together and asked a community of disgruntled users of other manufacturers incomplete feeling machines to group huddle and 'imagine' a better device.

Pandora is the birth child of that collective process and she's not even out of her swaddling yet making a mockery of many devices before her, now her equal and those that will follow.

If you follow, despite her teething problems, she will reach maturity and she is gonna rock many worlds with alot more than hope alone!
 
Korlithiel said:
I've had a string of bad luck over the past several years (a minimum of one what I consider major issue a year, ranging from mom getting cancer to me finding myself scheduled for emergency surgery, to most recently my longterm GF of ~6 years leaving me) so minor electronic issues like these just seem business as usual for me these days regardless of product.
Damn dude :(
My condolences. My Aunt is going through leukemia, if your mom also has it, I can hook you up with some very good, albeit expensive, doctors.

It's funny how real problems put things in perspective.

quatercast said:
I can identify with this, the left nub on my replacement Pandora just died. They felt quite flimsy to begin with and now the left one refuses to spring back to centre. In fact I have to disable the nub because it makes the Pandora unusable due to the cursor going crazy.

I'll be on my 3rd unit soon, see how long that one lasts :)
exact same here.

I'm about to send my second back for the left nub loosing its spring, same exact reason as last time (both pre nub redesign). The other pandora that I originally ordered (for my friend) and received last june, now has the purple screen of death and will be going back also. The nubs on that unit were also loose and jumpy, just like the 2 that I've owned. The nubs were tolerable but I was never really happy with them. Hopefully the new nubs are much better.
 
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Chaser said:
Wall of well-reasoned text

Chaser, you win the thread. Seriously though, that is the most intelligent summary of what has happened that I've read yet. I was fortunate to receive a fully-working Pandora, and I hope that there won't be any issues that I cannot fix myself. Should something happen though, I'm sure that OP Ltd. will fix it for me.

The worst part of this is that all this RMA'ing is really costing them money. I don't know that I would spend $500 on a Pandora if I had just discovered it. It's worth that to me now, but that's because I have one in my possession and I know what it's capable of. If I were to consider one bereft of that knowledge, however, I do not think that I would part with half a grand.

One thing that I do not know if I've seen is a report on the return rate of Pandoras coming out of ED's shop. I'm curious if he has had fewer returns than Craig's shop (and I know that he gets semi-assembled units from Craig). I'm sure most of those buyers are German-speaking and therefore do not post here, but I know a few of our members are multilingual. Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
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Chaser, I call bullshit.
That's poetic, fanatical delusions. Now, I aint no hater but Azure stated this is his 3rd Pandora and you can't "explain away" the fact he has received a pandora 3 times and needed it replaced...3 times.

Your religious like beliefs are the ravings of someone borderline brain dead. This is a product. OP aimed, from the get go, to make a profit (not saying thats the only reason but im pretty sure no one 3 years ago was going "Lets make a console that will force us to sell our houses, have our wives leave us and live on the street! yay!)

and we, as the consumer, expect better.

Lets call a spade a spade shall we? OP fucked up, sort it out.
 
Chaser, I've got to disagree with your note on defective units. My first had 2 dead nubs on arrival, the second had a number of issues I would have been fine to live with if it weren't for the intitial defect with the LCD cable that lead to it's death. The LCD cable, as you noted, had a small rate of returns. But that doesn't change that my replacement unit, not my first Pandora had suffered from the issue and should not have if it had been fixed in that meantime as they stated since they had run out of stock in the interim.

I'm currently living with the battery issues (and an assortment of other small issues) with my current Pandora, but if a replacement battery doesn't solve the issue then that makes 3 units in a row that were defective upon arrival.

Which to me makes 2, and potentially a whole 3 units in a row that were defective upon arrival. Sure, aside from dead nubs the first unit was fine (I've since forgotten the other small issues). But then the same can be said for the second, that aside from a dead screen it was fine, and the third that aside from battery issues and notable cracks in the case it's fine.

It seems unfortunate that you would start off as you did. Since it's clear to me you had many valid points, just that you were wrong on the number of defective units some people have received.

Edited in:
I think after re-reading your wall I can understand your perspective a bit more. But with how little time I've had in on a working Pandora since my initial arrived in early June, it's much harder to defend all of the issues. Knowing they are a possibility, after being one of those with such an early unit, hasn't exactly made it any easier that the bulk of the smaller defects known to each batch have plagued whatever unit I've acquired as well as some of the more serious issues.

MonkeyChops, my mom has made it 4 years since (it's non-hoghkin's lymphoma as I understand, basically my parents won't discuss with me so I've got fairly limited knowledge). But things like that put in minor issues with an electronic in perspective, while it's certainly terrible luck to get 2 bad units (3 if it isn't the battery on my current one) in a row, it's just so small of an issue that it is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
 
Well, I might be able to explain some stuff here.

There probably are a lot of people which have their third Pandora.

800 got units with the old nubs. If they failed before December last year, they got another board with the old nubs, which most likely failed again, so they are on their third unit.
A lot of the first units also had the purple haze LCD issue, if they RMA'd them, they still had the nubs that could fail afterwards.

Some LCD cables still fail, it's rare, but still happens. About 300 of the 4000 didn't even work from the very beginning, that's why we started to look for a different company.
That company has already produced samples, that I put in some of the last units I fixed and also in my own one. Not a single one didn't work or fail yet. After all, the new company who does the cables extensively tested them. They also produce flex cables for MSI, etc., this is their speciality, so I'm positive those cables are WAY better.
And they ARE in fact already in mass production and will be finished in 4 weeks.

So the reason quite a few people are using their third Pandora is no QC issue, but simply the reason they got a replacement at a time the known problems weren't fixed yet.

About the quality check:
Each unit gets a basic check including WiFi, LCD, speaker and the buttons at Craigs place. However, they don't play with the buttons or DPAD, they just press them.
So a unit like Azures 3rd one where all directions of the DPAD work, but not very well, might slip through here. Not good, but can happen. After all, there're no robots doing this :)

About the burnt volume wheels and L/R buttons:
Yes, CC solders the volume wheels, and there was a batch where they weren't careful soldering them, they tried to deliver us the boards as fast as possible.
Problem was: We didn't even see that until the units where shipped. You don't expect burnt volume wheels when assembling Pandoras, so you usually don't check it. You assemble them, do a function check and that's it.
I usually check my units VERY thoroughly (you don't read much about RMAs from my customers as well), which is possible since I have A LOT less Pandoras to ship than Craig, and even I didn't see that quite a few volume wheels got burn marks.
In fact, there are some units where I spend 20 - 30 minutes to get the shoulder buttons perfect!

Well, and even if we saw that: I wonder what we should have done. Those were the first boards we got with the new nubs, people were waiting for Pandoras... if we told them we sent them back to CC because of a cosmetic issue, quite a few guys would've gone crazy. If we offered to skip the queue and get a burnt volume wheel unit, other guys might've gone crazy, etc.
Deciding upon these things isn't always easy - but well, in this case, it wasn't even necessary, as we only got told when most of those boards had been shipped.
We told CC to solder more carefully (same for L/R buttons), and now they do so, but it's slower than before.

About the smoking:
I can assure you non from the team is smoking. I met them all last year, and they are all non-smokers.
I KNOW though that Craig has a room with an open fire, and that's where all units in Winter have been built. So it was most likely the smell from the fireplace some got.

About the other random issues:
As said, most functional things are being tested, but CC has a testing rig that is used to test things like headphones, etc.
So boards with such issues shouldn't even get to us, but sometimes they do.
Sometimes, units break with the transport - this can happen if some parts are not soldered 100%, which is a possibility with such a complicated board.

I also shipped some units which were in a perfect condition here and when they arrived, an LED fell off or similar.
Remember the gp2x where that one diode fell off after a while in A LOT of units? The black part that made a rattling sound?
It happens. Especially since you have to use lead-free solder. It's better for the environment, but it doesn't work very well, especially when parts are so small. I also think that's a reason why so many electronic devices fail nowadays after a few years. The 38 year old TV from my mother still works fine, as does my old VCS2600... but a lot of stuff I bought a few years ago already stopped working.

Anyways, back to topic and the QC:
You can see a lot of posts from new users who report to have flawless units. Some broken ones slip through, some break on the way to the customer, but all in all, it's not as many as you might suspect.
From over 300 units shipped, I got about 25 back for repairs - and about 15 of those were because of broken old nubs, 5 - 8 had broken LCD cables, some had both issues (as I told my customers to wait until the new nubs are there :))

Now, lastly back to the thread deletion.
I'm pretty sure it was not deleted because of a person who reported the unit was broken. There are quite a few threads about broken units and issues that are NOT being deleted.
In fact, I haven't seen many threads deleted at the boards - mostly only when Craig was overworked or very tired.
And I guess it was the case here. I know Craig was spending about 10 - 14 hours per day during the last weeks (including weekends!) assembling Pandoras and trying to fix any issues the units had.
I haven't seen Azures thread myself, but AFAIK he said something like "piss-poor quality check"....
Now, if you just spent 14 hours a day for the last two weeks, go to the boards, are worn out and read such a sentence... well, I guess you can imagine that someone might overreact.

Some might remember that there were some posts here from me at the boards where I overreacted as well when I was totally worn out... was sometime last year.

Knowing Craig, I'm pretty sure that was the main reason he deleted that thread.
 
I've got to admit, between Ed's post and Chaser's there is plenty here for a solid story detailing a history of Pandora quality control. And it's posts like those that help keep my spirits up about the project, Ed's more so since it doesn't come off as dismissive of the issues but rather simply addressing them and what has changed.
 
I had to RMA twice...
First time for purple haze issue and second for nub issue.

I had to wait and wait and wait until the new nubs were ready before RMA-ing the second time.

I can imagine that some have RMA'd before it was realised that there was a major flaw with the original nubs and hence they had multiple failures of the nubs...
My current Pandora is perfect! :)

This is just my own experience but basically quality control is constantly improving... sorry to those that are having bad luck.
 
Well, I just got my Pandora back after a 2+ month wait, and I'm sad to report my left shoulder button is DOA!

I was super excited to get my new nubs, and check out the other improvements that have been made, but before I could even turn on my unit, I had a squishy X button, and my left shoulder button didn't move at all. I said no problem, I'll crack it open and and readjust the shoulder button, and remove the excess plastic from the X button and all will be good.

Well I fixed the squishy button, as I'm a veteran at that now, but the shoulder button is beyond repair. So I have now sent Jackie another eamil to let her know my problem, and find out how she wants to handle my situation.

Sadly I spent 30+ dollars to ship my unit back to the UK, and I would guess they spent a similar amount to return it to me. Now my 330 dollar unit is up to about 400, and will be close to 500 if I have to send it back and forth again. Now I'm no math major, but 100-200 dollars being spent on 1 unit to be sent back and fourth seems to justify paying someone to sit there and remove excess plastic from buttons or to double check all buttons function properly. Am I wrong here?

Now I'm a long time supporter, and I'm sure under the circumstances, Craig and his crew our doing their best, but if I was a premium buyer who just flew in off the street, and this happened, I would be livid. 500 dollars, plus I now need to return my unit on my dime? There is a future customer now GONE because someone didn't spend 2 seconds testing these items. Yes, 2 seconds was what it took for me to see my shoulder button didn't function, and to also feel that my X button was squishy(2 Full Seconds). Now I'm probably looking at 2 more months, to "MAYBE" get a unit that doesn't have these problems.

Oh well, I guess my cup is now neither half full or half empty, but it can go either way depending on if and how my 2nd Pandora is repaired/replaced.

Chris :(
 
Chaser said:
Azure has not received 3 defective units. Neither has anyone else.

Azure has stated himself aswell, that he has infact not received 3 defective units at all but rather just 1.

His first two were otherwise fine, (except being early models from batches prior to the lay off for nub re-design), but have unfortunately suffered death of one or other nub, which can and will happen eventually perhaps to many, of the many more already wild Pandorae.
Actually, I misspoke; I should clarify:

1st Pandora:
-Improper hinge (was really stiff throughout the whole range of motion and didn't lock into any position at all)
-LCD suffered green-tint and was shipped with gunk on the screen (*underneath* the plastic that the LCDs ship with)
-Both shoulder buttons were stiff with barely any travel
-Wifi rarely worked

2nd Pandora:
-Faulty/inaccurate nubs
-Left shoulder button was still stiff with barely any travel

3rd Pandora:
-D-Pad issues mentioned earlier

All of them had "squishy" face-buttons, but I think that is more of a design than a hardware fault.

I should mention that I just heard back from Debs yesterday and it looks like I am being offered a full refund and will be reimbursed the cost of shipping the Pandora back this time, so that's good to know. I guess I learned my lesson of being an early-adopter... XD
 
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