Tisk Tisk Craig

[YeahRight]

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/2134-are-threads-disappearing-from-the-forums/

gp32x rules!

 

[Wolfsclaw]

Silencing critics is what Craig really likes to do.
I've seen the thread that Azure opened, and in my opinion, it was legitimate criticism with some understandable frustration coming out in the last sentence ('pandoras quality control is piss-poor') which can't be too much of an insult if it's really his THIRD pandora and he STILL has legitimate issues with it!

Deleting the thread & banning (!) Azure was therefore very well over the top. I mean, come on, who does he think he is, the secret police?

Good thing i never registered over there, and i'm glad Craig does not post here on GP32x anymore. While he's doing a really good business, he really should leave the community work to ED. At least strip Craig of his admin status.

 

[DaMummy]

craig is not an admin, nor is he a moderator, he stripped himself of both titles, whatever that really means

 

[TJFBryant]

I am sorry but... Craig and Azure should have spoke about the Pandora RMA issues in private.
For Azure to state his complaint about the Pandora (his third one) as Ed said, there is nothing the community could have done to fix the QA issue. It was simply an RMA issue.For Craig to bitch at Azure... wasn't smart either.
So sorry to say it but.... both were in the wrong.
Bad communication on both parts.

When I had an issue with my Pandora.... I went right to the main office. Didn't post a thing on these boards for fear of people getting scared and canceling the device. The Pandora is an awesome bit of kit.... it was just bad luck Azure had all those issues... for that I can sympathize.

I am a member of both boards.... and find retardedness, misinformation and miscommunication on both sites.

 

[foxblock]

craig is not an admin, nor is he a moderator, he stripped himself of both titles, whatever that really means

Actually that does not appear to be true, he also banned another member before (due to a misunderstanding, pretty stupid if you ask me - but he unbanned him shortly thereafter), so he still seems to have admin privileges.
The scary part is, he does not display an admin or mod badge, so it only appears like he does not have those rights.
(Be aware that I am guessing here, I don't know that for a fact).

 

[WaveHack]

Do we seriously need another topic like this? What happened to Azure was bad luck and he's getting a refund, from what I read. They solved it between themselves already, although I don't fully justify Craig's actions, I do understand he's under a lot of stress.

Topics like these usually only end up provocating one way or another and I seriously doubt it'll add any value.

 

[dgame]

craig is not an admin, nor is he a moderator, he stripped himself of both titles, whatever that really means

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/2134-are-threads-disappearing-from-the-forums/page__view__findpost__p__38337

I wonder if Ed could come in and comment?

Yeah, I can

Sorry, I took half a day off on Sunday (Yay!), so I missed the thread and cannot comment about what happened exactly.

As far as I understood, Azure go his third Pandora and had issues, right?
Then he was pissed off (understandable) and therefore posted that in an insulting and unfair way. At least for Craig, it seems, as I didn't see the original thread, I cannot comment on that.

Craig therefore didn't like that and removed that thread. And, as Craig mentioned, a stiff DPAD has been replied to a couple of times already. If that wasn't the issue, it's RMA, and no public thread.
RMAs are being dealt with the distributor, the community can't help here, so the only real reason to post it here is to show the world how bad the product is. As said, I haven't seen the original thread, but if it was kinda insulting, that could've been the case. Also, don't forget we're currently working 7 days a week, 10 - 15 hours a day, so Craig surely is stressed as well.

While it's unfortunate that all his Pandoras had some issues, it can happen. It's bad luck.

And I can fully understand why the last one, his DPAD issue, slipped through:
Yes, every single button is tested. But nobody tests this by playing any games. Each direction of the DPAD is working, so it passed.

All in all I think:
Azure was pissed off, Craig was stressed, that's why that happened.

Removing threads in an official board that let your product shine in a bad light is normal - that's probably why most companies like Sony, etc. don't HAVE official boards.
RMAs are something that should not be dealt in the public, but with your distributor.

If you ask me if I would've deleted the thread:
Probably not, as I usually don't delete ANY threads. However, I know some guys told me a few times that sometimes I should delete more threads. It's something very subjective, everyone would handle this differently.
I would've probably replied him that things like that can happen and he needs to contact his distributor - and closed it, if some flamewar would arise.

 

[Exophase]

I don't really like the information control on those forums either. Like in the "Ask Craig" forum when skyeyemachine asked if future Pandoras can use the DM3713 chip later:

http://boards.openpa...-spec-upgrades/

craigix gave a lot of good information, but also said some pretty questionable things, like that other devices with better hardware don't have better performance than Pandora due to some mysterious hardware implementation cause. He also says Pandora is "easily overclocked to 1GHz if you need it", which is pretty dangerous for him to say since it requires the higher voltage modes that OP won't cover under warranty and won't necessarily work for all programs anyway (like those that use NEON).

His response is of course not my problem, but the fact that he then locked the thread so no one could contest it. Note that most of the other threads there weren't locked.

The whole air of posts like this is "don't listen to other people, they're liars or ignorant. Listen to us. You can trust us." But trustworthy companies don't need to use tactics like this.

I'm not some big pusher of unrestricted "free speech" on forums and there are times when I think threads should be locked, although I rarely think it's justifiable to delete them. But these things should all be spelled out in the rules so you know what kind of forum it is in advance. I actually don't see rules listed anywhere there so maybe that should be first order of business, then make it clear that any negativity directed towards Pandora itself won't be tolerated.

For what it's worth, companies like Sony DO have official boards. Look at the rules for the Playstation boards:

http://community.us.playstation.com/message/30813129#30813129

All pretty standard forum fare, except for the last rule about not talking about other platforms, with a reasonable rationale given. Notice how they DON'T remove threads talking about hardware defects, for instance:

http://community.us.playstation.com/message/30991163#30991163

So yes, IMO the leash Sony has on their forums isn't even as bad as the one on the Pandora boards. It helps that the people who run the forum aren't the people who own Sony and don't have that kind of a personal investment in the company.

 

[b._.o._.b]

I think it is good to have some control on boards to maintain a good atmosphere. Not so sure if what Craig is doing is a bad thing. The effect it might have on this board, is another story though...

I have seen an example of two similar boards, one that was really negative and another positive one from a maintainer that used more control.
In the beginning the negative board attracted a lot more viewers and poster, (most of all complainers), but after a while the other board became the main source of information and innovation and it is currently very quiet in the other one.
Complaining becomes really boring after a while. So I hope this board will not become the basement of the complainers and trolls that can't express their opinion on the other forum.

I like this forum more because of the diversity of subjects, GPH handhelds and Notaz's postings. Don't need the other one, but I hope this forum will not turn into the place where only the grumpy guys are.

BTW. I have seen some banning and deleting of posts here as well. No big deal and people getting banned are usually aware they are pushing the limits.

 

[neko]

craigix gave a lot of good information, but also said some pretty questionable things, like that other devices with better hardware don't have better performance than Pandora due to some mysterious hardware implementation cause. He also says Pandora is "easily overclocked to 1GHz if you need it", which is pretty dangerous for him to say since it requires the higher voltage modes that OP won't cover under warranty and won't necessarily work for all programs anyway (like those that use NEON).

Mine gets unstable above 950MHz or so, maybe I should ask him if he will replace it with one that easily overclocks to 1GHz.

 

[Popcorn Dave]

Yeah, I agree with Exophase. Big companies DO have official boards, and they DON'T delete criticism, because silencing your customers just makes it look like you're running a scam. Personally, I find this kind of censorship far more offputting than a messed up D-pad.

 

[Chaser]

I recall the thread Exophase has linked and he's correct that Craig stemmed that line of enquiry but I think he'd be mad not to, if he's sitting on a ton of pre-bought chips. Same as the remaining LCD cable stock (the tool has mostly solved that issue) and the requests for the ext connectors. Though the latter does bite, as most of the folk wanting to temp splice a tv cable together, still want an official one and spare connectors for other mods, which shouldn't damage the tv out cable sales. Afterall once they are available, nearly every Pandora owner will want one when the software matures and the Pandora offers a near dockable desktop that fits your pocket.

b_o_b hopes this wont become the trolls or complainers basement and I doubt that too, as many of the Dev's have chosen here to share their projects first and foremost given the cross platform feedback but I also dont feel the other forum has been gagged in anyway. Just one user Benji-Stein was regrettably banned (I hope re-instated) for repeated circular questioning in some folks eyes and now Azure, in a bad move by any company on the basis of being miffed at yet another return process and lost time with a Pandora. The QA side has been explained on both sides already but its a pity he had such bad luck.

As for this place becoming purely the dwelling of grumpy men? Well its 99.7% male and given the unfortunate delays the project has suffered, I'd say its been mostly grumpy since Xmas 2008. Plus Prometheus, almost got grumpy enough the other day with this place to pack her bags, so its not just the men.

I could say, we should all get a grip of ourselves but that would be decidedly wrong!

 

[DaveC]

I think the real issue is not really who did/said what. The issue is that he was sent THREE defective units? That is ridiculous. You would think after getting one bad one you would test the shit out of the replacement. That means testing that every button works, the touch screen works, both SD slots work, Nubs, pad, everything. I hate to admit but not doing so just seems kind of lazy. In the end it will cost Craig a heap of money in shipping so it really doesn't make sense to save the 5 minutes it might take for a complete battery of tests. Just my opinion..

 

[Lorkile]

Exophase, those are the official rules, but they do not cover all of the forums rules. I stopped posting there because simply posting in a thread that involves homebrew discussion can get you banned, and after a mass banning I felt it was no longer safe to be there regardless of the issue. On that note, I wouldn't recommend posting there since you risk your PSN account and can potentially lose access to more than just the forums for just trying to help someone understand forum rules (they tend to ban first, consider unbanning later).

DaveC, Azure isn't the only one through 3 bad systems. I'm on my third unit and it appears to be a battery issue that may be something more to potentially put me on to unit number 4.

My first had dead nubs, second had a variety of small issues and eventually the screen went bad (supposedly only the first 600 my ass), and the most recent has a number of small issues I'm unconcerned about and the inability to read the battery life. What appears to have happened is that Craig has been low on time to devote employees to thoroughly testing RMA'd units, and each time that was what I received as replacement for units I had sent in.

Maybe I should be more upset, especially since my second unit I sent in right before the nub issues and including shipping was WA, USA I ended up with a bit over 4 months delay for a replacement. But it's hard not to be content when I've had some time in with a unit, I just wish I could get refunded the shipping like I've heard locals receive since having sent in 2 units has been a decent expense from my tiny entertainment fund (I'm an out of work student in college).

 

[Azure]

...What happened to Azure was bad luck and he's getting a refund, from what I read. They solved it between themselves already...

Not entirely true. I e-mailed "Debs" with the videos and an inquiry about the details of their refund policy at the same time that I posted that thread on their forums (of course I didn't use any negative language in the e-mail and kept it calm & inquisitive about their policy; the fact that this is my 3rd Pandora is outside the scope of her job). Though Craig said I would be getting a full refund, as of this posting I have yet to receive any such indication (I haven't received a reply to the original e-mail, nor have I received any messages on the official forum; though I guess it's possible he sent me a message via PM but then banned me afterward, and so I now can't see said message?)

I have to say I'm bothered by the implications of his comment "We clearly cannot meet his standards." Among other things, I had issues with my nubs with my first 2 Pandoras, and I believe OPT officially acknowledged the nubs as problematic, so I think those RMAs were just, so he must be referring to my standards with my latest Pandora. Maybe others will disagree, but I do feel that the D-Pad issue is legitimate and based on reasonable standards as it makes some games unplayable (I noticed myself moving left or up+left when trying to only move up in vertical shmups, for instance). I didn't have this issue with my previous Pandoras, so it seemed like a valid fault to me.

 

[WaveHack]

...What happened to Azure was bad luck and he's getting a refund, from what I read. They solved it between themselves already...

Not entirely true. I e-mailed "Debs" with the videos and an inquiry about the details of their refund policy at the same time that I posted that thread on their forums (of course I didn't use any negative language in the e-mail and kept it calm & inquisitive about their policy; the fact that this is my 3rd Pandora is outside the scope of her job). Though Craig said I would be getting a full refund, as of this posting I have yet to receive any such indication (I haven't received a reply to the original e-mail, nor have I received any messages on the official forum; though I guess it's possible he sent me a message via PM but then banned me afterward, and so I now can't see said message?)

I have to say I'm bothered by the implications of his comment "We clearly cannot meet his standards." Among other things, I had issues with my nubs with my first 2 Pandoras, and I believe OPT officially acknowledged the nubs as problematic, so I think those RMAs were just, so he must be referring to my standards with my latest Pandora. Maybe others will disagree, but I do feel that the D-Pad issue is legitimate and based on reasonable standards as it makes some games unplayable (I noticed myself moving left or up+left when trying to only move up in vertical shmups, for instance). I didn't have this issue with my previous Pandoras, so it seemed like a valid fault to me.

Ah okay, my bad then. I didn't read every response of the story, just what happened in general and that you were at least eligible for a refund.

 

[torpor]

What I am taking away from this thread, and the responses to it from the various OPT officials, is that there *IS* a quality control problem with the Pandoras, and this fact is being ignored.

*NO* censorship should be occurring. The time spent hassling around with PR on the boards should be, in my opinion, spent instead on fixing the quality control issues. IMHO, there are clearly indications that the Pandora's are not being checked before shipping, that there is a bit of sloppiness in this department (-*), and as the head of the ship Craig should be investigating this matter honestly and openly in order to fix the real source of the problem: EXTREMELY, NEARLY-TERMINALLY, POOR QUALITY CONTROL.

The problem is not complaining customers. The problem is lack of attention to quality control in manufacturing. FIX That Problem, please, OPT Ltd.



(*- Missing screws, missing rubber feet, HAIRS in the Casing, disgusting cigarette smells upon opening the boxes, poorly aligned keypads, poorly aligned D-Pads, keys not working, batteries failing, cracked cases. All of these things have been reported by Pandora users, none of these things are imagined, every single one of these issues *SHOULD* have been caught by a rigorous and un-relenting QC policy at OPT Ltd.. Period.)

 

[Miner49er]

disgusting cigarette smells upon opening the boxes

Man, that is disgusting - you'd think they would at least be smoking phat blunts.

 

[trooper]

disgusting cigarette smells upon opening the boxes

That is terrible, And without the smell of alcohol too.

Trooper

 

[gruso]

Apparently Craig doesn't smoke, but there is a fireplace in the assembly room. One of his helpers might smoke though, dunno.