The Truth is out there (2010-12-11)

[EvilDragon]

As you might know, Trey, a member of this community (and also a first-batch-preorderer) took the time to visit CircuitCo for us, the company that produces the Pandora Boards (as well as the Beagleboards and the Pandaboards).


He came back with a load of pictures and a lot of news - good and bad ones.


Basically, what I feared for the last weeks has come true - we haven't been told the complete truth about the production.


Sadly, there are not 2000 boards ready which just need to get the nubs. There are about 500 boards there, in various states (some completely finished, some finished except for the nubs, some had all the SMT parts on but were missing the rest, etc.)


It looks like they just started to work on the boards when they got the final nubs - that was what I expected, to be honest.


Why?


First: They never showed us pictures - which sounded to me like they were not really producing anything.


Second: If I were the company, I wouldn't have started before the final nubs were there (okay, on the other hand, I would have told the truth).


We pay them after they delivered the final boards. And I think THAT is the reason they didn't continue on the boards.


If we couldn't fix the nubs, the project would probably have gone bust - and then they had 3000 half-finished boards we couldn't pay anymore.


And as we kept asking and asking how things are progressing, my guess is they told as they are working and progressing to calm us down and not get angry, thinking we will not show up to check it out anyways.


Now they just got the first 2000 finally working nubs and started to work on the boards.


I am really sad to tell you this - but I don't think we'll see too many shipped Pandoras before christmas. We might get a bigger batch of boards and might even manage to build quite a few and ship them, but given the usual delays with shipping services right before christmas, it might be very narrow. I'd love to give you better news here, but oh well...


Now for the good news:


* Trey saw 15 people working, most of them were working on Pandora boards. This confirms that they are now really working on the boards!


* Trey will regularly visit them to check up how they're progressing. There will be no way to fool us anymore!


* They have nightshifts and will work most of the holidays.


* Now they know we have someone to check - which should hopefully motivate them to continue working.


* We got news from the nub company that the next 2500 nubs should be ready next week. It looks like they got the missing PCBs (for the nubs). Until the end of December, all needed nubs should be finished!


What will happen now?


Well, we'll keep a close eye on the production now and Trey will regularly visit them to make sure they continue producing the Pandoras!


All I can do is hope you will hold on for a while longer (yeah, probably Two Months ™) and wait for progress happening and good news from Trey.


We've dedicated a lot of time and money into this project. It probably is one of the most unique projects there is, and I don't want it to go down shortly before it's finished.


As we said, we used your prepayment to pay for parts and production. Any refund will decrease our own money and while we can cope with quite a few refunds, if all of you want to cancel your order at once, it surely won't be enough - so if you REALLY want a refund instead of a Pandora, please wait until the end of January (as then we should have an idea how well the production runs). Thanks!


Of course, I'll keep posting daily videos to give you some daily Pandora - and we'll make sure to keep you updated about the production.


Thanks again for your support! I know we can do it! Let's keep going!


Oh, Trey also took some pictures to show they are really working!


Various Pandora boards in various finished states.


You can find the pictures in the official blog

 

[TrashyMG]

Thanks ED and Trey for all these details, the Pictures are really nice too. I think the Good news balances out some of the Bad news.


Keep it up guys!

 

[TSBroich]

Well great. The Board Company wasn't true to their word.


I apologize for my negative attitude, for I'm usually more optimistic. Maybe I'm just having one of those days, and as much as a really hate to say it, I'm slowly losing interest...(had my eye on some cool new gadgets, Tablets, etc)


I really do not want to ask for a refund for two reasons: A ) It's a real burden on you guys, and I know you are working really hard to make this happen.


B ) I know that with my luck, just as a cancel my order, they'd start shipping out! haha...


I want to keep believing that this will happen. But I have to say, for me, it's a race between this and the Nintendo 3DS. So if my 3DS arrives before the Pandora, I may just pull out. But like I said, I'd really love to have this...


ED, don't quit. Keep going brother.


EDIT: Holy crap my internet forum grammar is awful.

 

[Anihil8ion2199]

Well great. The Board Company wasn't true to their word.


I apologize for my negative attitude, for I'm usually more optimistic. Maybe I'm just having one of those days, and as much as a really hate to say it, I'm slowly losing interest...(had my eye on some cool new gadgets, Tablets, etc)


I really do not want to ask for a refund for two reasons: A ) It's a real burden on you guys, and I know you are working really hard to make this happen.


B ) I know that with my luck, just as a cancel my order, they'd start shipping out! haha...


I want to keep believing that this will happen. But I have to say, for me, it's a race between this and the Nintendo 3DS. So if my 3DS arrives before the Pandora, I may just pull out. But like I said, I'd really love to have this...


ED, don't quit. Keep going brother.


EDIT: Holy crap my internet forum grammar is awful.

Take it from me who has tablets, pads, notebooks, net books, and every other cool gadget I see: there is nothing CLOSE to this! I'm really so over the waiting, but honestly aside from an actual PC you won't find a machine as good as this with the setup this promises.


The 3DS looks awesome, but it's a totally different animal. And I'd also wait for that since nintendo has struck out once with 3D (virtual boy) and is a disaster to go online with (internet browsing).

 

[TSBroich]

Yeah? I do know that there is nothing out there like this. It's VERY unique. But you must understand that just like you said, I'm really tired of waiting PAST the date promised to me multiple times when I wired them the $400 upfront...


This is without a doubt the coolest gadget I have laid my eyes on. I have really had my eye on the Galaxy Tablet and iPad (trying to decide which one I'd like to have more if I got one) lately, and they look really fun to play with. I like the Galaxy Tab for it's openness giving the average Joe the ability to develop for it with no middle man, and I really like the iPad for games/apps constantly being developed for it. I've seen a good number of awesome games release for the iPad recently (look at Infinity Blade. It looks fantastic with those screen shots). And the lack of Flash playback can be fixed by simply jailbreaking it.


You're right. The 3DS is completely different. But from what I've seen, it will certainly knock my DSi XL out of the park! My DSi can currently play emulators via a flashcart, and my SNES games run almost flawlessly with the new flashcart. But the Pandora is still better for emulation.


ED,


I will most likely not cancel my order. I was just really ticked off after reading the news about the Board Company lying and production being delayed a little longer. Again, I'm sorry for my negativity in my response up there. I'm cool now.


Besides, who says I can't have one of the Tablets, AND a Pandora?

 

[MarioPandio]

The only thing that irks is that the board company chose to not just be upfront and say "When you guys have the nubs sorted, we will build" rather than being all field of dreams about it! Its just another date slipped for those waiting that will piss them off and dishearten the OPT at the responses. I am btw 100% behind this and would happily invest or chuck cash at extra Pandoras if I were to have it to hand.

 

[Beej199]

Sounds like mostly GOOD news to me. 500 boards is better than NONE!


If I was the company I would have done the same thing, especially if I was to be paid after production. The risk is with them in terms of producing boards, dont forget they would have to stump up all manufacturing costs and pay staff. Without nubs they would have spent a load of money and then been left waiting, so its only reasonable.


Strange that they arent being upfront about the situation BUT it seems like they have every intention of producing the boards so it might be just them stating they will get it done rather than being negative and saying they wont because of the nub issue.


Im a Batch 2 pre-order so I have no issues in waiting longer. So Im still IN.


The production of 500 boards also looks like light at the end of the tunnel, surely if there is a steady stream of nubs then there will now be a steady stream of completed boards?

 

[Sugar_Kane]

If you look closely, you may see a flag

 

[Zucadragon]

I think this is mostly good news with a hint of bad in it. I mean, I would love to know how many boards they can produce every week for instance. They've got 15 men on it? Imagine if all those 15 can do 10 boards a day, that's 150 boards a day and 750 boards a week. With 500 done now ((Which they can ship already I'd say)), new pandoras can be sent out pretty quickly.


But the question is, how quick are these guys, how many boards can be produced per week and how does the sending work? per 500, per 1000, all at once?


I'd love to know the details.

 

[Pontaloon]

Awesome News!


Just like ED said, it was perfectly reasonable for the board company to do what they did. Why lie? Maybe they saw a group of guys who were working so hard on a project and kept getting knocked down from all the problems and didn't want to have to add onto their problems by saying "Look, we cant afford to make more boards at this stage because, to us, it looks like it's not going to happen."


Sorry for that but that's kind of how I saw it and in that light, the above post seems absolutely brilliant. The only thing I want to make sure of is those 2500 new nubs coming next week. Will they get tested like this first batch of new nubs did? We know that the boards are awesome but the nubs have been a problem so please, please, please, dont just let them through. Sorry about the paranoia...


I think it was a mixture of the delerium, happiness, and that I was told at a young age that computer boards are delicate that I laughed when I saw the tray of nubs sitting on the pandora boards like a house of cards. Yep, probably the delerium. Is delerium even a real word? I feel so light-headed.


I cant wait for that new holiday the world will add to it's calendar coming up. The Pandora Team holiday when all of batch 1&2 are out there and all the worlds problems are solved and the lads are wondering whether to make a pandora2 or just go in different new directions. Yeah, I think about that and although I cant think what I could possibly use a second pandora for, I want to support the team and buy more. I think it was Link who was saying he's got one and has ordered more and I'm sure that once all my friends and family see what it's capable of, they will flock to buy one too, just as I will be ordering more. Especially if batch 2 will be "The End".


Thankyou so much ED for those videos. It's just so amazing to see how everyone uses their pandora so anytime anyone who already has one wants to take photos/videos, please post them up. And thanks to Trey for taking the time to go to the company and all those lovely photos you got. I just cant express how good it is to see all this kinda stuff. It keeps us positive, especially when the forums cant.


You guys RULE,


-Mike.

 

[asimov-solensan]

How does affect to the ones waiting for their nubs to be repaired (mine is on craig's place but I don't know what's happening), will we have to wait until the company send the boards or they can be repaired without replacing the entire board..

 

[Nickie]

grr! more delay !


i'm not gonna cancel, but i'm gonna be soooo sour if my pandora comes to my place while i'm oversea, in feb , i don't care about christmas but leaving without it is a worrisome perspective :s

 

[andyhamer]

grr! more delay !


i'm not gonna cancel, but i'm gonna be soooo sour if my pandora comes to my place while i'm oversea, in feb , i don't care about christmas but leaving without it is a worrisome perspective :s

If it's any consolation you are not the only one, i am now in the peverse position of wishing for another delay on top of this one, due to a 7 week overseas sojourn starting Dec 26th... oh well c'est la vie

 

[bzar]

Good news, bad news. I hope for the best and will never surrender

 

[Abaddon666]

Well, too bad. Will the boards now ship in smaller batches (in order to make a handful of people happy this christmas) or will the company wait for 1000 boards to be finished before shipping anything?

 

[may88]

Funny how now the bad news has finally broke, it's not so bad. I've been more wound up about the half news/half speculation announcements of late.


Not criticising them, it's just the only news that could have been relayed at the time.


Well we now have a clearer idea of where we're at. Not as advanced as we'd hoped but about where we expected to be.


I'm still struggling to blame the Board Company. They told a little white lie to placate an awkward little customer making demands beyond their buying power (that's us )


@TSBroich - do what you need to do but watch the videos again and ask yourself if there is any device out there that you can operate on a bus, train or at your Aunty's that could do all that. Pause for thought. I'm quite interested in a lot of the Apps ED has shown us that I didn't know existed.

 

[ahahah]

i think it is more easy to wait when we have the truth and when we know what happens.


things are more frustrating to accept when events are delayed again and again and you don't really understand why, rather than when you understand the reasons.


i think if the company would say from the beginning that they can't continue the production because they have no warranty that their work is usefull and will not be abandonned without compensation, everybody here would be agree and would accept the delays.


it is a fault of this company, they should tell the truth from the beginning.


now all is clear and we finally see where to go.


I am more serene now.


It would be stupid to cancel NOW.

 

[TomVS]

Well, here we go again. I am sure I will survive another delay. This is one of those unforseen problems, The OP team can't be taken responsible for.


On the otter hand I hope that they Will not come with excuses once the boards arrive in England.


Given the number of delays they had, they had all the time in the world to make the rest of the line running without the usual two months.

 

[EvilDragon]

How does affect to the ones waiting for their nubs to be repaired (mine is on craig's place but I don't know what's happening), will we have to wait until the company send the boards or they can be repaired without replacing the entire board..

I mentioned this somewhere else, I'm currently in contact with ERSA (big soldering and desoldering tools manufacturer) to find out if they can provide me a tool to properly remove the nubs.


As soon as that happens, we can replace the nubs ourselves, which should make things easier and faster.

Well, here we go again. I am sure I will survive another delay. This is one of those unforseen problems, The OP team can't be taken responsible for.


On the otter hand I hope that they Will not come with excuses once the boards arrive in England.


Given the number of delays they had, they had all the time in the world to make the rest of the line running without the usual two months.

Well, except for that we're still missing some LCD cables that are also being populated at CircuitCo... grrrr!


I think the next 1500 units have been setup and I will solder the speakers to the LCD cables as soon as I get them.


One thing I'm a bit afraid of though... CircuitCo claimed they can do 500 boards per week.


We just thought about that given information we got from Trey (he asked a lot about production and checked it all out, etc.). 500 seem to be a best-case-scenario to me.


True, 500 a week would rock, it would still take a few weeks until you all got your Pandoras, but 500 a week is way way better than none for months.


However, if shipment resumes and the interest in the Pandora rises, then CC is definately too small to cope with the demand.


Also, it would mean they couldn't do any other projects (PandaBoards, BeagleBoards, etc.) during that time.


They mostly seem to be aimed at small production runs - well, the Pandora was planned to be a small production run but the demand was way higher.


I think we definately need a bigger partner to reliable produce in the future, which is what we're working on since a few months already.

 

[cwall]

Well the "does not get paid until delivery" explains it all. He has a payroll to meet, know what that is like and how some of the owners I worked for handled it, so nothing really new. In his mind it was just a white lie, just to keep the customer happy and he could run other projects through the production floor, and not have labour costs tied up in product sitting on the floor.


On a positive note, have been following the BeagleBoard for a quite a while and now the Panda Board, and there has been no major problems with the building of the boards, so at least we know they can produce product that works. Which can be a problem with some of these larger surface mounted chips. If he could not produce working boards, T.I. would have walked a long time ago.


We also know if he has the complete set of parts to build the board, he will get them out the door so he gets paid.


So hanging in for the 2nd Run of Pandora.


Carl