The Truth is out there (2010-12-11)

[Bigun]

I'm pissed.


I can tolerate laziness or even delays for technical reasons, I cannot stand being lied to. Even though by all technicality I wasn't the one lied to, I am putting myself in the OPT's collective shoes on this one. I would seriously sit these people down and tell them to be truthful from here on. Lying about ETA dates only serves to piss off the end user who has been patient and hurts them with future orders. And even then I would consider looking at other board companies for batch number 2.


On a side note, many thanks to Trey.

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm pissed.


I can tolerate laziness or even delays for technical reasons, I cannot stand being lied to. Even though by all technicality I wasn't the one lied to, I am putting myself in the OPT's collective shoes on this one. I would seriously sit these people down and tell them to be truthful from here on. Lying about ETA dates on serves to piss off the end user who has been patient and hurts them with future orders. And even then I would consider looking at other board companies for batch number 2.

We are pissed. A LOT. And sad. Really sad.


One of the most important things for me in my life is honesty. People who know me would confirm you that I am honest. I think being honest to other people will payback, and so far, it worked great with any projects I've been involved with.


That company basically MADE me lie. With my last posts, I've been careful telling you that I'm not sure the company tells the truth - but before that, I told their facts believing their were true... which basically was lying to you.


Sure, it wasn't really my fault - but try to tell it to the ones that don't believe that.


Well, I think it's good we started setting things up with another company. The company is friends with Fatih for over five years now, and they always have been honest and reliable.


We already moved away the iCP production from CC. Unfortunately, it's not that easy with the Pandora - setting up production and getting the needed parts takes months here, as it is WAY more complicated than the iCP.


Depending on the parts, it looks like production at the new company could start in February - that would be a BIG relief.

 

[Jumpman]

Well, the lying can be debated by the masses, but wouldn't get any of us anywhere, so lets move on!


I would like to ask the team, or Michael specificly, now that the board company is going balls out, has anyone made sure that "Quantity" won't surpass "Quality"? We all want boards yesterday, but the team and the community don't need another 6 months of delays because they are rushing, and now they are shipping a substandard board that will need to be returned like so many broken nubs currently.


Also, I would like to suggest Trey's next visit be ASAP(monday or tuesday if possible)! The tour yesterday could have been a dog and pony show just to keep the team at arms length. If you will lie in one area of business, you will lie anywhere if it is in your benifit to do so. So I think Michael should bring Trey up to speed on what to ask, and what to look for during his tours, so that he can indeed be the "5th Beatle"! :lol:


Just a few points of concern that I would like to see addressed, and know that although the board company has not been doing much(which was very understandable, and not a big deal for me personally), we can now count on them to do their jobs. Sadly, my kids don't do much unless I stand over their shoulders and crack the whip from time to time!


Happy Holidays to ALL! Hang in there, a better and more improved unit is on the way. Trust me when I say it is AWESOME, and well worth the wait, and price point.


Chris

 

[drohan]

We already moved away the iCP production from CC. Unfortunately, it's not that easy with the Pandora - setting up production and getting the needed parts takes months here, as it is WAY more complicated than the iCP.


Depending on the parts, it looks like production at the new company could start in February - that would be a BIG relief.

Ed, So this means second batch units will be produced with the new company?


P.S: Thank you for giving us the true as it is, and also thanks Tray for your effort to provide accurate news...


rgrs.

 

[TitanUranus]

I recommend you go back to the original accidental suggestion and get Trey to bugger the company's head man regularly till they finish the boards... would add incentive to finish quickly (unless of course he enjoys it). I intend to wait for my Pandora, as a portable C64 would make my life complete (and a portable amiga/megadrive/PSX etc... is a nice bonus).


Let's all confirm here and now that we WILL NOT be cancelling in the near future - see if we can't help ease Ed's anxiety and help him to enjoy x-mas a bit more. Just post "WCW" (for "Will Continue Waiting") or "BBM" (for "Bugger the Board Manufacturer") to voice your support, and help bring peace of mind to a jolly fine fellow!


WCW





BBM

 

[PokeParadox]

I recommend you go back to the original accidental suggestion and get Trey to bugger the company's head man regularly till they finish the boards... would add incentive to finish quickly (unless of course he enjoys it). I intend to wait for my Pandora, as a portable C64 would make my life complete (and a portable amiga/megadrive/PSX etc... is a nice bonus).


Let's all confirm here and now that we WILL NOT be cancelling in the near future - see if we can't help ease Ed's anxiety and help him to enjoy x-mas a bit more. Just post "WCW" (for "Will Continue Waiting") or "BBM" (for "Bugger the Board Manufacturer") to voice your support, and help bring peace of mind to a jolly fine fellow!


WCW





BBM

Wow... we're resorting to buggery now...?

 

[Timstertoo]

It's been a continuous problem from when I jumped in.


The manufacturers can manufacture stories (as that's what they seem great at more then anything) because no one is on location to make sure stuff is setup and is rolling out.


If you have the legal power of a big company you can do it with contracts and from a distance (although I'd be surprised if they don't have someone on the spot for at least the quality control of the first runs) but when it's so easy to mess around with you because you're a small fry you just need to make sure they know you're in their face. Every huge disappointment in this project would have been avoided if someone would have been on the spot and early measures could have been taken to deal with it.


Follow up is extremely important in business, being liked by people much less so as they'll take care of the assholes order first just to get rid of him. It's better to be respected for your consistency, trustworthiness and assertiveness then have the "ED's such a nice guy he'll understand/don't mind/not get as upset as client x, if we're a bit later" reputation. I would have phoned, emailed, skyped, msn'd, facebooked the guy every day for those pictures of the boards and the setup if I wouldn't have been able to go and I wouldn't have cared one bit if I could hear the guy get more agitated with having to speak with me again. The solution to his problem is easy, provide and be rid of me. Others are doing it to him, they probably have their stuff already.


Trey thanks a lot for going mate! Great job


I'm starting to feel some mild frustration though and I'm having a hard time with it. On the one hand I'm totally digging the uniqueness of this great project and have huge respect for OPT for having the balls to actually do this. On the other hand I'm starting to get the feeling that by having ALL your manufacturers push you around so easily and not learning from it, and get one of the OPT on the spot to take care of business, you are putting the manufacturers interests and your relationship with them over mine (as a generic customer, I don't take it personally) and over your relationship with me (not taking it personal again)Not taking any action when you're getting screwed is also an action.


I have no intention to ask for a refund but I will be looking at the CES with interest. Don't think anything comparable will pop up seeing as although I'm in the market for a tablet and some other stuff, it's an addition to my collection of wannahaves and not a replacement for the Pandora. The not getting it before christmas and my birthday (the 29th) is somehow harder on me then the other dates have been which I really didn't care yet and had plenty of patience. Especially as it all seems to bottle down to one thing all the time. People can get away with screwing us (OPT and the community) over as there are no repercussions and in their perception no one cares enough (I know you do) to get on the spot and get on their case. So I'm wondering how long I'm going to let myself get screwed around by your manufacturers and do nothing about it.


Bottomline is that although I find this forum with regular updates a great thing everything said on it is pure speculation as none of the people you do business with seem to be the least worried with lying to you just to get rid of you for a couple of weeks.


I am thinking hard though if it would not be better to pull out of this one and wait for the upgraded one that will hopefully follow. My business me is taking over from the emotional impulse buying nerdy me and I´m more and more getting the feeling that I´m paying todays money for the day before yesterdays technique. And yes I´m contradicting myself from what I said in earlier posts.


I'd be surprised if you manage to get the first 4k shipped before March I'm sorry to say and I'm probably being my usual positive self there.


I apologise for being a bit moody but it´s been so obvious to me that the board company was pissing around (posted 21st of November) that I just get irritated that this is another setback that should´ve been avoided by some assertive actions from OPT instead of taking on the victim role.

 

[EvilDragon]

Ed, So this means second batch units will be produced with the new company?

It sure looks like it. We're still setting it up (as said, this is a loooong process... 8 layers with over 400 parts take a while to setup for a company).


Unless CC proves to be reliable from now on (as said, they might've just waited for the nubs, but we'll find that out soon), then we'll try to move on.


And even if they prove to work reliable from now on, maybe we'll work with two companies parallel to ensure we get boards faster.


And choose the better one in the future.

P.S: Thank you for giving us the true as it is, and also thanks Tray for your effort to provide accurate news...

Well, as said - I always was honest and will be honest.


It would do no good lying around here.

 

[- Theo -]

WCB


(Will continue buggering)

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, you can be sure we will also talk to TI about that, as they usually are helpful to their customers and try to support them.


Our contact asked in November how production is going and also asked CC how the status is - and they told him only the nubs are missing.


He's out of office until mid December, but we sure will update him. TI suggested CircuitCo to us as they also produce their prototype boards, so that should also help.


I think our biggest bonus at the moment is Trey - without him, we couldn't have proved they didn't tell the truth, only guessed (as I did during the last weeks).


Now we have someone who can confirm everything they say. If TI supports us, we should get them going

 

[Dead1nside]

I think it's like you say ED. Now that they have nubs, and will be getting a pretty regular stream of them, there are no more excuses. If we then start seeing a steady stream of Pandora boards from them, I don't think there's that much of a problem (apart from the pent up angry and frustration at the situation). Telling TI about your experiences might help, but having Trey able to check up on them and put forward your thoughts, is crucial going forward.

 

[Bigun]

We are pissed. A LOT. And sad. Really sad.


One of the most important things for me in my life is honesty. People who know me would confirm you that I am honest. I think being honest to other people will payback, and so far, it worked great with any projects I've been involved with.


That company basically MADE me lie. With my last posts, I've been careful telling you that I'm not sure the company tells the truth - but before that, I told their facts believing their were true... which basically was lying to you.


Sure, it wasn't really my fault - but try to tell it to the ones that don't believe that.


Well, I think it's good we started setting things up with another company. The company is friends with Fatih for over five years now, and they always have been honest and reliable.


We already moved away the iCP production from CC. Unfortunately, it's not that easy with the Pandora - setting up production and getting the needed parts takes months here, as it is WAY more complicated than the iCP.


Depending on the parts, it looks like production at the new company could start in February - that would be a BIG relief.

I'm not blaming you EvilD or even claiming that you lied, you merely was relaying information and thats all. Glad to hear the next batch will go to a second company.

 

[Poem58]

Also shouldn't it be assumed that if we are willing to forgive CC if they spit out our boards at a reliable rate that after payment then next order would be given maybe a bit more priority as they would have seen that in fact they will be paid the next time? I for one am at least glad (Thanks Trey!) for at least knowing where exactly we stand. Knowing is half the battle :::GI-JOE sound plays in background:::


Depressed there will be more wait. Yes. Oddly filled with more certainty about getting Pandora in near future. Somehow Yes. Lies are bad and in the end all it did was rise our hopes for quicker delivery, however we do know a few thing for certain. I have yet to hear of someone getting a Pandora with a bum board. So they must know what they are doing well enough. If they do manage to ship these out at a decent pace now that the nubs are here, then all is well. I can understand all of the circumstances and the issues, but in the end as long as I get my Pandora soon. I can live with it. Hopefully this is the end of the line for delays, another major one and many people including myself may not have the patience any longer. But I will say this, if I were forced to cancel it would not be for something else. There is no comparable device for me, therefore, no way of thinking of the Pandora outdated in my eyes.


So I have no problem declaring I will be waiting patiently as well. Normally the longer you wait the more the hype in your mind makes the item seem less impressive when you finally get it. Thanks to ED's video's I can say my expectations are that this is still a device that will do everything I want and more. The only thing that could improve it to me would be working out minor details like I've seen mentioned. Kernel/Firmware updates, emulator improvements, etc. And those will come after I get it anyway. So I cannot find a downside to waiting for this, unless you count the waiting.


Will wait +1

 

[Michoko]

Well, I'm not posting a lot on the forums, but I'm a day-one buyer of the Pandora, and I can't help but feeling sorry for the Pandora team. ED is certainly a very nice guy who tries to cheer everyone up and keep us motivated, so this is certainly the kind of news that he must find quite depressing. Personnaly I chose to support the project from the start, and won't give up now that 95% of the road has been done (of course some skeptics will say that we may encounter further problems, but frankly, I think almost all the possible obstacles a project can encounter happened during Pandora development lol). By looking at the videos, I'm still quite excited by the Pandora, even more now that I can see its full potential via the daily videos ED is posting. I think it was a wise move to keep us updated every day, since now everything looks much more concrete to me. I know this cool device will be mine, I'm not so anxious about the fact that it may suffer a small extra delay.


Keep up the great work guys, you federated a lot of people around this project. It has become a real adventure that can be enjoyable to follow now that success is finally almost there!


Take care,


Frédéric

 

[QBCS]

One of the most important things for me in my life is honesty. People who know me would confirm you that I am honest. I think being honest to other people will payback, and so far, it worked great with any projects I've been involved with.


That company basically MADE me lie. With my last posts, I've been careful telling you that I'm not sure the company tells the truth - but before that, I told their facts believing their were true... which basically was lying to you.

You've been very honest and given us more information than we could even hope for from any other company; I can't imagine how much time you spend on this and us daily. I don't think you mislead us at all about the nature of the board company's news and possible lack of veracity. I'm really, really late in Batch 1 though, so I knew what I was getting into from the start.


I'm with you to the end, whenever it is.

 

[Pushwall]

I'm sorry to hear about the delay. Well I'll check back in about 30 days from now to see how things are going. I don't check here every day or every week since it keeps me from dwelling on not having my Pandora. Good luck to you ED and everyone at Pandora in the meantime!

 

[TrashyMG]

Seems fitting for the title of this thread.

 

[Blackcurtain]

I am really sad to tell you this - but I don't think we'll see too many shipped Pandoras before christmas.

This was what I was suspecting all along so I ain't the least surprised. I wish you good luck.

 

[devhace]

I'm 850-950 in Craig's queue.. will I have it before Feb 1?

 

[emcee]

I'm with Bigun on this one. I don't see how people can defend or make excuses for the board company. There is absolutely no excuse for lying to your customer for months on end. That's not how you run a business, and for that matter, that's not how you treat other people.


And it seems like the standard for success changes every time it's not met. I wouldn't consider just the fact that they're even working on the boards "good news". The only way you could possibly set the bar any lower is to say "Well, they haven't started working on the boards, but the good news is that they haven't started coming into people's homes and taking back the boards they already made".


It would be nice if a representative from this company could come to this board and explain themselves.