The Truth is out there (2010-12-11)

[FaeMinx]

Sounds like mostly GOOD news to me. 500 boards is better than NONE!


If I was the company I would have done the same thing, especially if I was to be paid after production. The risk is with them in terms of producing boards, dont forget they would have to stump up all manufacturing costs and pay staff. Without nubs they would have spent a load of money and then been left waiting, so its only reasonable.


Strange that they arent being upfront about the situation BUT it seems like they have every intention of producing the boards so it might be just them stating they will get it done rather than being negative and saying they wont because of the nub issue.


Im a Batch 2 pre-order so I have no issues in waiting longer. So Im still IN.


The production of 500 boards also looks like light at the end of the tunnel, surely if there is a steady stream of nubs then there will now be a steady stream of completed boards?

I agree! To be honest, the talk of moving to a new company for Batch 2 has me worried (I'm in Batch 2, obviously). Surely if the board company can be shown to be producing completed boards at a steady rate now (or after the holidays), then why not continue to allow them to produce boards? From what I've read none of these boards have failed - what if the new company produces boards with more haste, yet we get a percentage of failed boards... or other unforeseen complications? Like setup delays. I was hoping that once true production was underway, there would be no break between the batches, just an incremental stream of Pandoras released into the wild. A complete move is a risky gamble, esp. after overcoming so much already - I'm sure that Murphy already has Two Months™ printed on his undershorts and is just waiting for another opportunity to show them off!

 

[centus]

I have to say, i'm a little worried about the next phase in the uk.


Has anyone seen/heard anything from Craig recently?

 

[- Theo -]

<schedule>


we'll try to get one next week... signed and confirmed by the CEO!

For some reason, that doesn't really comfort me

 

[EvilDragon]

I agree! To be honest, the talk of moving to a new company for Batch 2 has me worried (I'm in Batch 2, obviously). Surely if the board company can be shown to be producing completed boards at a steady rate now (or after the holidays), then why not continue to allow them to produce boards? From what I've read none of these boards have failed - what if the new company produces boards with more haste, yet we get a percentage of failed boards... or other unforeseen complications? Like setup delays. I was hoping that once true production was underway, there would be no break between the batches, just an incremental stream of Pandoras released into the wild. A complete move is a risky gamble, esp. after overcoming so much already - I'm sure that Murphy already has Two Months™ printed on his undershorts and is just waiting for another opportunity to show them off!

As I said multiple times: If CircuitCo manages to get a steady production going, there is no need to move. We'd use the other one to produce units in parallel, maybe, but if CircuitCo shows they can reliable produce boards, there's no need to move.


However, moving to a new company takes about 3 - 4 months, so we had to start doing this already, to be ready for production in case CC DOESN'T manage to speed up their production.

I have to say, i'm a little worried about the next phase in the uk.


Has anyone seen/heard anything from Craig recently?

Yes, yesterday via Mail. He's there, no worries


I guess he's just organizing a lot of things currently, maybe also looking for sponsors, etc.

For some reason, that doesn't really comfort me

Not much else we can do there except for controlling and getting a signed document with a deadline now that the nubs are there.

 

[Blue Protoman]

When can we next expect an update?

 

[EvilDragon]

When can we next expect an update?

Well, as soon as CC gives us an update or Trey visits next week to confirm progress has been made on the boards...

 

[Blue Protoman]

You should give Trey a bio on the main site for doing this.

 

[DaMummy]

looking for sponsors for what? i thought we were the sponsors

 

[FaeMinx]

As I said multiple times: If CircuitCo manages to get a steady production going, there is no need to move. We'd use the other one to produce units in parallel, maybe, but if CircuitCo shows they can reliable produce boards, there's no need to move.


However, moving to a new company takes about 3 - 4 months, so we had to start doing this already, to be ready for production in case CC DOESN'T manage to speed up their production.

This makes complete sense! Apologies for not picking it up. :unsure: <newb who hasn't been thorough or consistent in following the news>


I just got worried reading the angry responses from other pre-orders who insisted some kind of punitive action be meted out to CircuitCo. I probably misunderstood the full picture when it was wished that Batch 2 would be done with another company.


P.s. I have complete faith in OPT! I don't feel I have the right to encourage everyone to stay strong and hold the course (as I only made a financial commitment a few days ago). But to me it seems INEVITABLE you will ALL be receiving your Pandora regardless of hiccups or major setbacks. For new Batch 2 pre-orders like me a few delays really shouldn't be any issue... and for those 1st Batch'ers who made a financial commitment *ages* ago... isn't holding a Pandora of your very own in the sometime future (and being a part of history) worth far more than the money you put down?


As I see it, none of the obstacles out there are too great to overcome - only losing the faith and canceling your pre-order can harm the Open Pandora Project.


Could you live with yourself if the Pandora died because of YOU!


Don't do it!


The Open Pandora deserves to live!!!!


Keep the faith. Keep your pre-order. And make history!


*ahem*


*proceeds to look sheepish* :unsure:

 

[EvilDragon]

looking for sponsors for what? i thought we were the sponsors

You paid the cost of the production for your unit and the parts, nothing more. This has been stated from the very beginning.


The rest has been paid out of our own pockets. Craig just made a calculation of the final costs per unit so far.


Including all the development costs, etc., we paid over 400 USD per unit - so unless you paid 400 USD to us for your Pandora, you haven't sponsored anything except for the parts that are lying around at CC and the production that they should do.


Additionally, a sponsor could be used to produce the next batch of units WITHOUT preorder money.


We've got a finished product, so as soon as we have a reliable production company, it should be possible getting sponsors.


Selling Pandoras on stock is damn easy... so with enough money to produce Pandoras for stock would definately speed up everything.

 

[Blue Protoman]

I've just started the pre-order process. I'm waiting on a reply from Craig at the moment.

 

[FaeMinx]

I've just started the pre-order process. I'm waiting on a reply from Craig at the moment.

Yes!!

 

[TrashyMG]

I'd love to order another one, but will have to wait until after Christmas.

 

[TylerAW]

You paid the cost of the production for your unit and the parts, nothing more. This has been stated from the very beginning.


The rest has been paid out of our own pockets. Craig just made a calculation of the final costs per unit so far.


Including all the development costs, etc., we paid over 400 USD per unit - so unless you paid 400 USD to us for your Pandora, you haven't sponsored anything except for the parts that are lying around at CC and the production that they should do.


Additionally, a sponsor could be used to produce the next batch of units WITHOUT preorder money.


We've got a finished product, so as soon as we have a reliable production company, it should be possible getting sponsors.


Selling Pandoras on stock is damn easy... so with enough money to produce Pandoras for stock would definately speed up everything.

I paid 400USD :blink:

 

[Prometheus]

^ The per-unit cost ED mentions doesn't include your shipping cost, which I'm guessing your $400 may include.

 

[urjaman]

Hah, in a way I also paid ~400 USD (30x EUR, cant remember) with current EUR<->USD-exchange rates per google, but a lot of that was shipping and VAT (wrote ALV and then it hit me that nobody (except B-Zar ) would understand), which I'm guessing craig didnt include in his math as they're not costs nor income for him, theyre from customer to UK and from customer to shipping company.

 

[Prosthetic_Mind]

They had no nubs to finish the job. Why make 1000, 2000, or 3000 boards if you aren't sure the frogs across the pond have enough lillipads to pay for the order?

It is not so much that they didn't have the boards ready, but more that they LIED about having everything ready when they hadn't even started on them yet.


Companies are not honest because they do things out of the goodness of their hearts, and if they see it as profitable to lie, they will. In order to encourage companies and greedy individuals to be honest, there has to be a form of negative enforcement which outweighs any gain that they might have received through lying, in order for it to make business sense to them to be honest.


I guess I may not have been quite as precise in my earlier post as was necessary- it was specifically to EvilDragon, but I thought that it would be good to put it in the thread for other people to see ways that they can respond to abuse from other companies on their own.


To be clear, I do not currently advocate interfering or otherwise taking any action that might be construed as illegal or harassing of CircuitCo, the Pandora team is currently dealing with them and it could be damaging to their negotiations if damage or difficulty is received by CircuitCo. I do advocate that EvilD and co. leave negative reviews of CircuitCo through the proper channels at their discretion, unless CircuitCo gives them recompense or special treatment that would make such actions unnecessary. If they continue in their dishonesty and betray our trust again, there are certain methods through which we as fans can retaliate, though I must strongly insist that no illegal actions be taken against CircuitCo. Especially if they can be traced back to you.

 

[djaychela]

ED: Much respect for being so honest and up-front about the situation. I can kinda see CC's point in doing things the way they have, but lying to you about it is totally unacceptable. TBH I'd completely given up on the idea of getting my (~#900) Pandora before Christmas anyway, just thought I'd pop in to have a last look before Christmas in the vain hope that I'd be pleasantly surprised!


February then?

 

[Link]

It is not so much that they didn't have the boards ready, but more that they LIED about having everything ready when they hadn't even started on them yet.


Companies are not honest because they do things out of the goodness of their hearts, and if they see it as profitable to lie, they will. In order to encourage companies and greedy individuals to be honest, there has to be a form of negative enforcement which outweighs any gain that they might have received through lying, in order for it to make business sense to them to be honest.


I guess I may not have been quite as precise in my earlier post as was necessary- it was specifically to EvilDragon, but I thought that it would be good to put it in the thread for other people to see ways that they can respond to abuse from other companies on their own.


To be clear, I do not currently advocate interfering or otherwise taking any action that might be construed as illegal or harassing of CircuitCo, the Pandora team is currently dealing with them and it could be damaging to their negotiations if damage or difficulty is received by CircuitCo. I do advocate that EvilD and co. leave negative reviews of CircuitCo through the proper channels at their discretion, unless CircuitCo gives them recompense or special treatment that would make such actions unnecessary. If they continue in their dishonesty and betray our trust again, there are certain methods through which we as fans can retaliate, though I must strongly insist that no illegal actions be taken against CircuitCo. Especially if they can be traced back to you.

What part of might not get paid don't you understand?
Companies lie all the time. Why bash someone for being fiscally responsible by lying? They make good boards and as a business person, I don't blame them. If you want to hold someone responsible for fiscal irresponsibility, start with Ben Bernake of the US Federal Reserve. They started this mess by derailing this project. If you want to hold someone responsible contact Barclay Bank.

 

[Gring]

Recently, Apple refused to replace laptops because the customers were smokers.


A friend of mine could not replace his brand new laptop with a fried motherboard because "there are fingerprints on the screen".


I've got a Laptop waiting in a shop to be replaced for 9 years because it had conception flaws and the company went bankrupt...


Losing money in this kind of situation pisses me off and I'm usually quite agressive to get it back, and it's usually hard.


But if the Pandora project failed I wouldn't ask a refund.


This is the first time such a project is pulled off, it's not like buying an Apple laptop or a Sony product.


Bitching about cancelling an order is childlish, it's like thinking that OPT was an omniscient being that could predict exactly how things would unfold, and that is torturing us for pleasure. I knew it was risky when I ordered.


They need support, not pressure. I don't see the point about threatening OPT to get 300$ back (and I would really need them now to pay the bills) when every tech enthousiast has already lost much more with other mainstream companies that laughed back at them.