The Sun - Animal Cruity Campaign

[declaration]

No, it can't. The only way to easily (that is the key word, right?) get complete proteins from a no-meat diet is through beans and tofu. You have to mix certain types of other vegetables to make the same proteins that your body needs in place of those two or any kind of meat.

Its easy if you think about it. Any good diet needs thinking about. If you find that difficult I pity you.

Any good diet is healthy, and the way most vegetatrians and vegans eat is not healthy.

talk about pulling facts out your arse.

I'd love to see some proof about that, since I do believe you just pulled it out of your ass.

There is evidence but clearly causation is an issue. Since vegetarians on average are from higher socio-economic groups, on average smoke and drink less etc, it is difficult to establish the reasons for the higher life expectancy.

btw- I am not a vegan. I would like to be but dont think I could do it. I drink milk, eat cheese etc, but also make sure its organic and try to make sure the animal was treated as well as possible. But, how can you square the image of a human milking a cow as a natural development?

once again natural has no real meaning in this conversation as you people will claim anything done because of human's intelligence is natural. Therefore everything is natural.

@Rico- this thread is about animal cruelty. Surely you can see that some people see the meat industry as the main purpetrators of animal cruelty. Therefore it is relevant.

Sorry if my views are not popular. I just believe that if I dont need to eat meat to be healthy (which is factually undoubtable), I should make the effort to stop unnecessary death and suffering.

 

[lubidog]

@Rico, look, what I meant is that why try to slag off animal rights activists when we are not talking about the idiots that burn peoples houses for being scientists, but chavs that get their kicks from burning a kitten? Why couldn't you just have said "That is awful", instead of spouting on about issues that you consider worse? We all know that Katrina, Pakistan earthquakes, child abuse is awful, and some of us try to help. But here we weren't talking about that! It would be like me invading a thread about child abuse with "What about the cute kittens?".

My parents do this. I might say say about one issue to them, and they start off on their pet daily mail fuelled gripe. Drives me nuts.



@Declaration. You may consider yourself evolved, but I haven't. I am an animal. I have a level of intelligence akin to a normal human. But what's intelligence? The fact that I know the capital of Sri Lanka, or the fact that my Dog can sniff a lamppost and know the details of every dog that has passed there since a few days ago?

You can be a veggie. No one would doubt that it is possible to maintain a healthy diet. Proberbly more difficult (certainly in Germany!), but you could live a long healthy life. But that's your choice. Meat is not murder. Animals eat other animals. I am an animal. I come from a background where we kived from the land-my dad grew vegatables, and kept pigs and chickens. He would hunt and fish. He has intelligence about the way of birds and beasts. He loves animals, and passed that love to me. I have since lived in cities. I fish, but put them back. Hypocrite. But when I fish, I understand the nature of the hunter (this is getting silly, but true!). My eating, and hunting, has NOTHING to do with my loving and respecting animals. In fact it makes me love them more. It's a complex thing, but true.

What will happen if we don't keep livestock? Who will look after them? Who will milk the cows, breed the pigs, let the chickens roam? No one. But before you start on saying that we have a duty of care to them, because we created these domicated (?) beasts, we created them over thousands of years. So it's what we do-our nature!

The hunting ban, which I hate. There are, iirc, 20,000 hounds kept for hunting in the country. What the hell will happen to these? At the moment, people are still hunting. The dogs are still used. But soon, the police might waste a few millions of tax payers money, and stop hunting completely. Those dogs will be destroyed. The RSPCA kills about 2000 dogs a year (again, iirc). Awful.


I hate these ivory towerites, who live in their city dwellings, telling us how to live. There is no simple solution. But all those people campaining against country life, and that bastard blair, who said when he came to office that he wanted to do the the countryside what M. Thatcher had done to the miners, have NO idea what real rural life is like. My friends back home don't tell people how to live. They aren't posh. Their way of life is sustainable, and healthy...




Anyway, long post. Sorry for the Rant.


What gets me, is that most of my Veggie buddies (a lot in my profession, pasty faced, thin ill looking people-JOKE) all eat fish and occasionally chicken!!!!!????>

 

[declaration]

The hunting ban, which I hate. There are, iirc, 20,000 hounds kept for hunting in the country. What the hell will happen to these? At the moment, people are still hunting. The dogs are still used. But soon, the police might waste a few millions of tax payers money, and stop hunting completely. Those dogs will be destroyed. The RSPCA kills about 2000 dogs a year (again, iirc). Awful.

You cannot be an animal lover and pro-hunting at the same time. Fox hunting is evil. The whole idea of chasing a fox with a pack of hounds and then tearing it apart is disgusting. And the fact they do it for fun and sport makes it even worst. It is not defensible.
Then you complain about the dogs being put down. The govt didnt force the dogs to be put down. Thats was the hunters decision. The sad truth is that they were bred to mutilate foxes, and now they cannot do it anymore, the hunters don't want them.

What gets me, is that most of my Veggie buddies (a lot in my profession, pasty faced, thin ill looking people-JOKE) all eat fish and occasionally chicken!!!!!????>

Thanks for the ridiculous vegetarian stereotype. Also, your friends arent vegetarians if they eat fish or chicken. they are pescetarian if they eat fish.

 

[PinkSpider]

@declaration. You may consider yourself evolved, but I haven't. I am an animal. I have a level of intelligence akin to a normal human. But what's intelligence? The fact that I know the capital of Sri Lanka, or the fact that my Dog can sniff a lamppost and know the details of every dog that has passed there since a few days ago?

What gets me, is that most of my Veggie buddies (a lot in my profession, pasty faced, thin ill looking people-JOKE) all eat fish and occasionally chicken!!!!!????>

​

Whilst I do disagree with abit of what youve said I agree with these - My mums a veggy and she brought home a chicken the other week (lovely having that in the fridge) and she has always eaten fish. Myself have never knowingly eaten meat/ fish since I was 5. (almost 15 years).

Also if your going on the meat being all nice as its not murder then eat organic meat.

Also 'what would happen to the Farms and dogs and that' - I dunno, but its hardly natural know is it. And the dogs, theyve been trained by us...its our fault or something.

Anyways I did mean to put thought into that but im off out soon and im guessing my bath is overflowing or something.

 

[Klown]

How would you rather be killed?

I should point out that i've seen it done in real life. I doubt you have. Its obviously very distressing and painful for the animal. Rather like it is when done to a person.

Still, this ham i'm eating is good stuff.

-Craig

​

You're completely fucking wrong. You slit somebodies throat, they just collapse and die. Much easier than gassing them slowly in large groups.

 

[Jarska333]

That depends. If you basically chop someone's head of, they go quickly. But if one just punctures the big vein there, you live long enough to realise whats happening, and try to frantically keep your blood from pouring away. Brain survives short time without O2.

 

[lubidog]

The hunting ban, which I hate. There are, iirc, 20,000 hounds kept for hunting in the country. What the hell will happen to these? At the moment, people are still hunting. The dogs are still used. But soon, the police might waste a few millions of tax payers money, and stop hunting completely. Those dogs will be destroyed. The RSPCA kills about 2000 dogs a year (again, iirc). Awful.

You cannot be an animal lover and pro-hunting at the same time. Fox hunting is evil. The whole idea of chasing a fox with a pack of hounds and then tearing it apart is disgusting. And the fact they do it for fun and sport makes it even worst. It is not defensible.
Then you complain about the dogs being put down. The govt didnt force the dogs to be put down. Thats was the hunters decision. The sad truth is that they were bred to mutilate foxes, and now they cannot do it anymore, the hunters don't want them.

What gets me, is that most of my Veggie buddies (a lot in my profession, pasty faced, thin ill looking people-JOKE) all eat fish and occasionally chicken!!!!!????>

Thanks for the ridiculous vegetarian stereotype. Also, your friends arent vegetarians if they eat fish or chicken. they are pescetarian if they eat fish.

​

That was a joke at the end (the word JOKE should have given you a clue...).

But moving the debate on, tell me the kindest way to kill a fox? And do you live/come from the country? Have you any idea how patronising an earlier comment was about how some 'country-dwellers' have been able to see the error of their ways and not eat meat????

So come on then, tell me how to kill a fox the safest way?

 

[geekylad]

The hunting ban, which I hate. There are, iirc, 20,000 hounds kept for hunting in the country. What the hell will happen to these? At the moment, people are still hunting. The dogs are still used. But soon, the police might waste a few millions of tax payers money, and stop hunting completely. Those dogs will be destroyed. The RSPCA kills about 2000 dogs a year (again, iirc). Awful.

You cannot be an animal lover and pro-hunting at the same time. Fox hunting is evil. The whole idea of chasing a fox with a pack of hounds and then tearing it apart is disgusting. And the fact they do it for fun and sport makes it even worst. It is not defensible.
Then you complain about the dogs being put down. The govt didnt force the dogs to be put down. Thats was the hunters decision. The sad truth is that they were bred to mutilate foxes, and now they cannot do it anymore, the hunters don't want them.

What gets me, is that most of my Veggie buddies (a lot in my profession, pasty faced, thin ill looking people-JOKE) all eat fish and occasionally chicken!!!!!????>

Thanks for the ridiculous vegetarian stereotype. Also, your friends arent vegetarians if they eat fish or chicken. they are pescetarian if they eat fish.

​

That was a joke at the end (the word JOKE should have given you a clue...).

But moving the debate on, tell me the kindest way to kill a fox? And do you live/come from the country? Have you any idea how patronising an earlier comment was about how some 'country-dwellers' have been able to see the error of their ways and not eat meat????

So come on then, tell me how to kill a fox the safest way?

​

theres no nice way to kill a fox, its unacceptable

 

[lubidog]

Well here my friend we part company!!!

You think we shouldn't kill foxes? Then you don't have a clue. And that's why this stupid and illogical ban was put in force. Plus the reason that it was an anti-toff ban (by the biggest 'toff' party in the land!).

So what will happen if we don't kill foxes? Do you know anything about foxes? Rabbits? The free range eggs you have for breakfast?

Or do you read about these things in the Standard on the northern line?

*seethes*

 

[sam fisher]

That depends. If you basically chop someone's head of, they go quickly. But if one just punctures the big vein there, you live long enough to realise whats happening, and try to frantically keep your blood from pouring away. Brain survives short time without O2.

​

it survives 5 minutes but youd pass out long before that.

 

[declaration]

Well here my friend we part company!!!

You think we shouldn't kill foxes? Then you don't have a clue. And that's why this stupid and illogical ban was put in force. Plus the reason that it was an anti-toff ban (by the biggest 'toff' party in the land!).

So what will happen if we don't kill foxes? Do you know anything about foxes? Rabbits? The free range eggs you have for breakfast?

Or do you read about these things in the Standard on the northern line?

*seethes*

​

You are a real fucking moron sometimes. There are one million better ways to kill a fox than by chasing them for half a mile with a pack of hounds and then tearing them apart. That is an absolutely awful way to die.
If foxes really do need to be controlled, it is not the sort of thing that should be done for fun and for sport. The sort of people who enjoy that experience, and the people who defend them, are just as bad as the people you were calling "chavs" earlier.

The way you try and make this an countryside-urban issue is pretty pathetic. Just because people in cities realise that dressing up like absolute morons to go chasing a small animal around with the intention of seeing it die painfully is not fun and should not be allowed.
In fact, scrap that, plenty of country people realise it too. Its just a few wankers who think they are better than us because they are from the country.

btw- your comment about the biggest toff party in the land makes no sense on its own.

 

[deadlychicken22]

You cannot be an animal lover and pro-hunting at the same time.

Really? About half of the people who live around me are animal lovers and also hunt. And while i don't hunt, i'm definitely pro-hunting and I have a pet dog and a pet bird. My dad hunts, my uncles hunt, my cousins hunt, my friends hunt, my teachers hunt, and my neighbors hunt. And all of them are very kind people and love animals (well, maybe not the neighbors and teachers ).

 

[deadlychicken22]

The way you try and make this an countryside-urban issue is pretty pathetic. Just because people in cities realise that dressing up like absolute morons to go chasing a small animal around with the intention of seeing it die painfully is not fun and should not be allowed.

well, i thought he had some good points. And he's right that it is somewhat a countryside-urban issue. It happens quite frequently. Idealist city dwellers throw out a bunch of bullshit about environment/animal rights/ [insert topic here] and the people who actually know whats going on about the subject believe the oppisite. How much do you know about hunting? Have you ever been hunting? Do you have the right to judge it? Reminds me of drilling in alaska. The rich politicians living in big cities were totally against it while the people who actually LIVED there and would be directly affected by it voted FOR it (correct me if i got incorrect info, thats what i read). I had more to say, but i'm too tired to think anymore, good night.

 

[Blah]

Lets think of it this way:

If I had my (hypothetical) 12 year old dog put down, it would be a good, humane thing for it.

If I had my 60 year old grandma killed, it would be murder.

People should be valued more than animals, and that is that. But animals should be treated with respect as well.

 

[lubidog]

Well here my friend we part company!!!

You think we shouldn't kill foxes? Then you don't have a clue. And that's why this stupid and illogical ban was put in force. Plus the reason that it was an anti-toff ban (by the biggest 'toff' party in the land!).

So what will happen if we don't kill foxes? Do you know anything about foxes? Rabbits? The free range eggs you have for breakfast?

Or do you read about these things in the Standard on the northern line?

*seethes*

​

You are a real fucking moron sometimes. There are one million better ways to kill a fox than by chasing them for half a mile with a pack of hounds and then tearing them apart. That is an absolutely awful way to die.
If foxes really do need to be controlled, it is not the sort of thing that should be done for fun and for sport. The sort of people who enjoy that experience, and the people who defend them, are just as bad as the people you were calling "chavs" earlier.

The way you try and make this an countryside-urban issue is pretty pathetic. Just because people in cities realise that dressing up like absolute morons to go chasing a small animal around with the intention of seeing it die painfully is not fun and should not be allowed.
In fact, scrap that, plenty of country people realise it too. Its just a few wankers who think they are better than us because they are from the country.

btw- your comment about the biggest toff party in the land makes no sense on its own.

​

Nope, pal, You are the 'fucking Moron' (always a sign that an argument is lost!). Why, cos you couldn't answer my question! Come on, answer it. How to kill a fox humanely.

You don't know because you know nothing about this subject. You have a automatic response, but with no real knowledge. You clearly never read the Burns Report into fox hunting, you talk patronisingly about 'putting on costumes' to go and have 'sport', is that what hunting is? You know nowt about it, mate. So before you jump in calling people 'Morons' get your facts straight.

The simple truth is, that people who live in the country, and work in the country are the guardians of the country. And they know and understand this. People who live and work in cities, have no desire to protect anything.

So come on, tell me a BETTER way to kill a fox than by hunting! Answer the question.

 

[Jarska333]

Just shoot the bugger.

 

[lubidog]

Nope! Very hard to shoot a fox. The body is actually very small compared to it's outline. Unless you are an olympic shooter, you will maim the bugger, leaving it to survive in agony!

Next....

 

[geekylad]

​

[/quote]
Just because people in cities realise that dressing up like absolute morons to go chasing a small animal around

​

[/quote]


Thats very true!

I think this is going a little of topic now, There are always going to be people either against fox hunting or in favor of it, I hate the idea of fox hunting & if I saw fox hunting where I live I would actually go over with my friends & put a stop to it anyway thats needed, How would they like it if I got a agreesive dog to chase them around the forest then for the dog to tear the fox hunter apart? Oh I forgot its for fun so thats ok!!!!

 

[fishybawb]

Nope! Very hard to shoot a fox. The body is actually very small compared to it's outline. Unless you are an olympic shooter, you will maim the bugger, leaving it to survive in agony!

Next....

​

Hire Olympic shooters to do it then. Really, any way you dress it up, chasing wild animals down with packs of dogs FOR FUN is sick. You can spout your "country people know best" stuff all you want, but it won't make it true.

 

[Jarska333]

Nope! Very hard to shoot a fox. The body is actually very small compared to it's outline. Unless you are an olympic shooter, you will maim the bugger, leaving it to survive in agony!

Next....

​

I repeat, just shoot the bugger!