The Sun - Animal Cruity Campaign

[declaration]

You are the 'fucking Moron' (always a sign that an argument is lost!).

oh yes, because you've never used unnecessary insults in a debate.

you talk patronisingly about 'putting on costumes' to go and have 'sport', is that what hunting is?

YES!! thats exactly what fox hunting is. EXACTLY.

You know nowt about it, mate. So before you jump in calling people 'Morons' get your facts straight.

I do know what it is, and you are a moron. Fox hunting typically amounted to less than 10% of all foxes killed in the UK. And whatever you might spout in propaganda, shooting a fox is much more humane than tearing it to shreds with a pack of hounds after chasing it for miles accross the countryside. Foxes escaping hounds after a long chase can die from stress long after the hunt. A good shooter kills a fox instantly, or soon afterwards if the first shot wounds.

And thats even without the debate over whether fox population control is necessary.

Fox hunting killed such a small amount of foxes it made no real difference. The ban just stopped these sadistic bastards who get enjoyment out of murdering a small fox with a pack of dogs. They did it for fun, and for sport, not out of some noble mission to protect the countryside. They are evil and I am glad we won.

 

[lubidog]

Oh yes I have used insults in debates. Those that I am losing...

This would be like me jumping in on a debate about C+++, ie. I no nothing about it, have never worked in it, but do have an opinion.

You simply cannot argue with me over the actual 'facts' about what happens in a hunt! I come from a hunting background, you clearly don't.

Yes, it's cruel. It's barbaric. But so is the fox. My Dad's chickens were once completely wiped out by a fox. Not for food, but for sport! My Dad didn't then try to ban the fox, he realised that the fox was an animal, and that he was an animal, and that it was all part of living with the natural world!!!!!

You, on th eother hand, have probably never seen a fox in it's natural envoiroment. You probablt live in an area that produces masses of amounts of harmful substances that get released into the air, devestating huge areas of forest land in northern europe (ie. you live in a city). You don't care two hoots about the way of lives of others that actively try to protect the green planet we stand on. Yet you believ so ARROGANTLY that you know. You just know, you just know what is right and isn't right!

Well, before you can talk about this matter, speak to gamekeepers, land owners, farmers, blacksmiths, hedge makers. You have no idea how much damage is being done to our planet. Where are the frogs going? Where are the sparrows going? Why are the song birds not breeding? We know the answers to these problems, cos we see the cause every day (not me anymore, I now live in a city.)

But you probably don't care about these issues. You just see a cute little fox picture on an RSPCA sticker saying "I'm backing the ban". Well, seeing as you haven't given me an answer, I'll tell you what the Burns report said...

The best way to kill a fox is to Lamp it! Shine a torch into it's eyes and smash the bastard over it's head. But the report states that there are serious welfare consequences in every way killing foxes. Shooting already mentioned. Trapping is evil. The fox that is killed in a hunt, dies withing seconds of being caught. The fox is caught in the same way that it catches it's prey.

But what really gets our goats is that a whole swathe of people that live their lives in a perfectly acceptable, beneficial to the whole population way, are being targeted. Why? Because they believe they are posh or something. You've got no idea clearly of country life, in fact you don't care.

Lets ban cars! Cars, and their hideous emmissions kill more flora, fauna and cute fluffy animals than any hounds. So ban all cars. Imagine the terror in a rabbits heart as a Loud, Metal firey animal bears down on it!!!!

 

[Rico]

Why couldn't you just have said "That is awful", instead of spouting on about issues that you consider worse?

​

Because I was replying to the people who brought up the difference between children and animals about two pages before me. But since you like telling people what they should and shouldn't post I'm guessing you also like making exaggerated points without reading the thread.

 

[lubidog]

Why couldn't you just have said "That is awful", instead of spouting on about issues that you consider worse?

​

Because I was replying to the people who brought up the difference between children and animals about two pages before me. But since you like telling people what they should and shouldn't post I'm guessing you also like making exaggerated points without reading the thread.

​

I've read all the thread, hell I've written most of it, so what's that supposed to mean?

And I am telling people what to do? I've been the one saying "Be a Veggie if you like", and "Don't tell us we can't hunt". Do you mean I shouldn't tell Chavs not to burn Cats? No. But my whole point is that people in once society are saying "leave us alone to live our lives". So really cannae see your point at all...

Your post didn't make sense...... Individual libery in a way that doesn't affect others is my motto (looks crap on the T-shirt though).


Hey, I feel like Mungpuss, defending myself. Can I use the word 'retard' now?

 

[declaration]

But what really gets our goats is that a whole swathe of people that live their lives in a perfectly acceptable, beneficial to the whole population way, are being targeted. Why? Because they believe they are posh or something. You've got no idea clearly of country life, in fact you don't care.

beause they take part in a sport which is based upon the violent destruction of animals for fun. Thats why.

Lets ban cars! Cars, and their hideous emmissions kill more flora, fauna and cute fluffy animals than any hounds. So ban all cars. Imagine the terror in a rabbits heart as a Loud, Metal firey animal bears down on it!!!!

Yes, lets ban cars. But that doesnt mean fox hunting shouldnt be banned too. These people kill animals for FUN. They are sick, and defending that is impossible.

 

[lubidog]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

 

[Rico]

And I am telling people what to do?

​

I said you told people what to post. You said I should have just delivered a canned response like 'that's awful' and that I shouldn't bring up other issues, that's why I quoted your post.

Maybe now you'll see what I mean about not reading the thread...

 

[declaration]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

​

fox hunting didnt even control the fox population. It typically accounted for much less than 10% (6% according to the Burns report) of foxes killed in the UK each year.

The reason it was banned was because, as the vast majority of British people believe, if fox population does need to be controlled, it neednt be done for sport, for fun or in such a violent and stressful way.

 

[deadlychicken22]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

​

fox hunting didnt even control the fox population. It typically accounted for much less than 10% (6% according to the Burns report) of foxes killed in the UK each year.

The reason it was banned was because, as the vast majority of British people believe, if fox population does need to be controlled, it neednt be done for sport, for fun or in such a violent and stressful way.

​

So, are you against all hunting or just fox hunting? When I mentioned everyone around me hunting, they're usually hunting deer or grouse. But you know what? It really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what percentage of the fox killing it accounted for, you still have no right to judge. I'm not going to waste my time writing much more, as you simple ignored my last couple posts.

 

[declaration]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

​

fox hunting didnt even control the fox population. It typically accounted for much less than 10% (6% according to the Burns report) of foxes killed in the UK each year.

The reason it was banned was because, as the vast majority of British people believe, if fox population does need to be controlled, it neednt be done for sport, for fun or in such a violent and stressful way.

​

So, are you against all hunting or just fox hunting? When I mentioned everyone around me hunting, they're usually hunting deer or grouse. But you know what? It really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what percentage of the fox killing it accounted for, you still have no right to judge. I'm not going to waste my time writing much more, as you simple ignored my last couple posts.

​

I didnt respond because what was I supposed to say? That your friends and family are not really animal lovers if they enjoy going out and killing animals. Well, there you go then.
If people you know go hunting for food, kill the animals as decently as possible and use the meat productively, then that is clearly different to British fox hunters who do it for the pomp and the pleasure without any consideration for how much distress the fox is in. I still wouldnt do it, but can see the difference.

And yes, I can 'judge' people who enjoy killing animals, just as you would judge someone who committed a heinous crime for pleasure.

 

[deadlychicken22]

Ok, well, its good to know you at least read the posts. The people I know hunt for food and for sport. They always eat whatever they kill, but we could definitely get our food from another place. I don't know much about British fox hunting, so I guess I can't really say much on the subject. When you say hunting I think about the hunting that goes on around here, but fox hunting sounds quite different.

I didnt respond because what was I supposed to say? That your friends and family are not really animal lovers if they enjoy going out and killing animals. Well, there you go then.

I was more refferring to this:

well, i thought he had some good points. And he's right that it is somewhat a countryside-urban issue. It happens quite frequently. Idealist city dwellers throw out a bunch of bullshit about environment/animal rights/ [insert topic here] and the people who actually know whats going on about the subject believe the oppisite. How much do you know about hunting? Have you ever been hunting? Do you have the right to judge it? Reminds me of drilling in alaska. The rich politicians living in big cities were totally against it while the people who actually LIVED there and would be directly affected by it voted FOR it (correct me if i got incorrect info, thats what i read). I had more to say, but i'm too tired to think anymore, good night.

And yes, I can 'judge' people who enjoy killing animals, just as you would judge someone who committed a heinous crime for pleasure.

Ok, I see what you mean. Looking back at my post, i worded it very poorly. I was also under the impression that this fox hunting was done by people who had chickens or other animals that were killed by foxes, not just for fun.

 

[Jarska333]

Would foxhunting be more ethical, if the hunters would feast on the flesh of the hunted animal? :huh:

 

[Empyre]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

​

Why would we want or need to control the fox population?

 

[Empyre]

When I mentioned everyone around me hunting, they're usually hunting deer or grouse.

Are you one of those people who sit in trees dressed in cammo and orange, drinking beer and taking potshots at deer (and occasionally each other) whilst calling it hunting?

 

[deadlychicken22]

When I mentioned everyone around me hunting, they're usually hunting deer or grouse.

Are you one of those people who sit in trees dressed in cammo and orange, drinking beer and taking potshots at deer (and occasionally each other) whilst calling it hunting?

​

Have you ever been hunting? What you're talking about above is the hunting that makes it to the media. It makes it to the media BECAUSE it is extreme and not accepted. As I said before, I don't hunt. The people I know who do hunt take it very seriously. They don't drink beer while they're hunting. Yes, they wear cammo and orange, this is standard hunting clothes (at least where I live). They only shoot if there's a clear shot that would kill the deer. As far as I know, most of them don't sit in trees, they go on foot, although there are people who make tree stands. My dad usually doesn't even get anything. I can only remember two years that he got a deer.

 

[deadlychicken22]

Just tell me how you would conrol the fox population....?

​

Why would we want or need to control the fox population?

​

I don't know about foxes, but I know that hunting is actually a very good way to control the deer population. Where I live, if the deer population gets too large, they end up starving in the winter when there's not enough food for all of them. Hunting helps prevent that from happening.

 

[Empyre]

When I mentioned everyone around me hunting, they're usually hunting deer or grouse.

Are you one of those people who sit in trees dressed in cammo and orange, drinking beer and taking potshots at deer (and occasionally each other) whilst calling it hunting?

​

Have you ever been hunting? What you're talking about above is the hunting that makes it to the media. It makes it to the media BECAUSE it is extreme and not accepted. As I said before, I don't hunt. The people I know who do hunt take it very seriously. They don't drink beer while they're hunting. Yes, they wear cammo and orange, this is standard hunting clothes (at least where I live). They only shoot if there's a clear shot that would kill the deer. As far as I know, most of them don't sit in trees, they go on foot, although there are people who make tree stands. My dad usually doesn't even get anything. I can only remember two years that he got a deer.

​

No I've never been hunting, I've killed a few clay pidgeons does that count?

What I'm talking about above is not the hunting that makes it to the media, I've never seen americans in the UK media, going hunting at all.

What I'm talking about is the hunting that the majority of midwest american males indulge in every hunting season. I have a friend who lives in Arkansas (Little town called Waldo) and every year we sit and laugh at the dumb rednecks loading the pickup with beer, getting dressed up and stomping off into the woods to sit in trees and drink themselves comatose. Occasionally one of them will think they've seen a deer and will take a potshot. They rarely kill anything, occasionally they hit one another (the orange is just so 'purdy). This is all about peer bonding, it has nothing to do with feeding your family.

These people should maybe go bowling or have a tractor pull or something, they don't need to kill things to be a part of the group, they just choose that because its more fun to play with guns.

BTW you live in a beautiful part of America, why would you ever think that it is ok for people to go out and destroy parts of it? Granted its not as bad as putting in a freeway and lining it with burger joints but killing the local wildlife is still ruining the balance.

 

[Empyre]

Where I live, if the deer population gets too large, they end up starving in the winter when there's not enough food for all of them. Hunting helps prevent that from happening.

In Africa, if the Ethiopian population gets too large, they end up starving in the winter when there's not enough food for all of them. Hunting helps prevent that from happening.

Somehow it doesn't sound so 'OK' if you just switch 2 words out.

If there's too many of them they will die, true; but thats only because you lot have hunted all of the deers natural preditors until there aren't enough of them to keep the balance. Stop shooting things and it will all (eventually) get back in sync again.

 

[LHC]

Animals are shit.

 

[deadlychicken22]

BTW you live in a beautiful part of America, why would you ever think that it is ok for people to go out and destroy parts of it? Granted its not as bad as putting in a freeway and lining it with burger joints but killing the local wildlife is still ruining the balance.

Yes, I live in a beatiful part of America, but that doesn't change my views on this subject.

BTW, I live well within the city and have seen numerous deer and bears walk through my yard. Just about a week ago there werer two HUGE bucks in my back yard. At about three o'clock on a hot day in the summer there were two giant black bears that slowly walked through my back yard (probably looking for some water). Early last fall two big black bears walked into my yard, tipped over my bird feeder, sat down, and began to eat the seeds from the bird feeder. They were only two feet away from the window I was looking out.