The Pyra Puzzle

[TrashyMG]

Inside of that picture are at least 3 major and 8 small rule infringements. If we keep it like that, the PCB could not be produced reliably, would get shortcircuits or similar issues.
Moving traces around could lead to other rule infringements - so this is quite a puzzle (high-level Sokoban, eh?)

Each issue needs about 5 - 30 minutes to solve, so it's possible, just takes a loooot of time.

And the more you solve, the more complicated it gets for the remaining ones... fun.

But how can he be sure that there is an existing solution?

How can any of us be sure of something that you are skilled at?


Edit: just implying it's trusting your own judgments and hope everything works when debugging.

 

[Neelix]

(almost-seriously: how do they sell fruit with non-edible kernels in US?)

Probably because it just comes like that, it isn't manufactured. They aren't putting seeds into the fruit, that's just how it grows. The day they perfect the Kinder Surprise plant will be interesting.Or maybe it's in the wording, like you may not be able to digest them but the pits still technically classify as food so it's ok?


Or possibly even that such fruits are technically, within the letter of the law, illegal but no one is crazy enough to actually try and enforce it in those cases.


I'm no lawyer, I just remember the tl;dr;

I'd rather suspect the correct answer is that second one.  The pits are part of the fruit and thus technically classified as food even if they are not edible themselves.    I would also suspect that the same applies to bones in meat and fish.

- Neelix

 

[Kiga]

Inside of that picture are at least 3 major and 8 small rule infringements. If we keep it like that, the PCB could not be produced reliably, would get shortcircuits or similar issues.
Moving traces around could lead to other rule infringements - so this is quite a puzzle (high-level Sokoban, eh?)

Each issue needs about 5 - 30 minutes to solve, so it's possible, just takes a loooot of time.

And the more you solve, the more complicated it gets for the remaining ones... fun.

But how can he be sure that there is an existing solution?

How can any of us be sure of something that you are skilled at?


Edit: just implying it's trusting your own judgments and hope everything works when debugging.

OK, I just wanted to know if there is a surefire way to know if there will be a solution till the last issue, maybe a software or something.

 

[TrashyMG]

OK, I just wanted to know if there is a surefire way to know if there will be a solution till the last issue, maybe a software or something.

 My guess the software does report potential issues in the layout, well assuming it's like the software I've seen used here at my work.

 

[spud42]

Inside of that picture are at least 3 major and 8 small rule infringements. If we keep it like that, the PCB could not be produced reliably, would get shortcircuits or similar issues.
Moving traces around could lead to other rule infringements - so this is quite a puzzle (high-level Sokoban, eh?)

Each issue needs about 5 - 30 minutes to solve, so it's possible, just takes a loooot of time.

And the more you solve, the more complicated it gets for the remaining ones... fun.

But how can he be sure that there is an existing solution?

sometimes there is not a solution without a complete redesign of the board layout. some packages can auto route for you but on complicated boards may still only do 95% if you are lucky. the remaining 5% is where the art come in.. lol

traces on multi layer boards can be fed through a 3 dimensional maze up and down layers as well as across layers. but those sorts of traces can give other problems with noise and crosstalk of signals. i do not envy someone doing multi layer boards. i had enough trouble with a 2 layer board back in 1988.... never done it since.. lol

 

[ssokolow]

While some would like candy coloured Pyras, or even a chocolate coloured option, I would prefer to stick with grey or black.  Maybe beige.  I don't think others would appreciate that as much as those of us who were around when that was a popular choice for computer cases.

Even those of us who lived through the beige era may not be very interested. I grew up almost exclusively on IBM ThinkPads, followed by a 233MHz HP Pavilion which was two different shades of dark grey.


Those ThinkPads with their black housings, elegant, functional design and TrackPoint III pointing sticks spoiled me on anything more razzle-dazzle than the black Rebirth-edition Pandora I own now.


The only beige PCs we ever owned were an IBM PC (can't remember whether it was an XT or AT) when I was a baby and a 386SX with 2MB of RAM which was when I was very young and mainly used while my father had his earliest laptop at work. (We got to keep his old laptops when they were replaced. I still have the ThinkPad 755C)

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Personally, I think late 80s/early 90s beige should at least be a colour option.

 

[TrashyMG]

when I was a baby and a 386SX with 2MB of RAM

essentially the brand new computer I built in Highschool.. way to make me feel old. 

 

[ssokolow]

when I was a baby and a 386SX with 2MB of RAM

essentially the brand new computer I built in Highschool.. way to make me feel old. 

The IBM PC was when I was a baby. The 386 was when I was in elementary/middle school. You're not that old.

 

[TrashyMG]

^ I Feel it.

 

[Grench]

Sheesh.  I built a rig in college consisting of:

A Computer Shopper magazine to lift the motherboard off the desk so the cards could insert.  These were about 2" thick at the time.

clone 128KB XT motherboard set directly on the magazine.

AST 6 pack fully loaded up to 640K of RAM

EGA graphics card

RLL controller

generic power supply - sitting on the desk behind the motherboard

MFM 40MB hard disk overdriven to 68MB due to the RLL controller - sitting on the desk (caseless) behind the MB

720MB 3.5" floppy drive sitting sideways on top of the HDD so the pins wouldn't short out

2400 Baud external USR modem connected to the AST 6 pack

1200 Baud internal modem card

12" screen EGA monitor

Note - I couldn't afford a case to put these cheaply acquired spare parts in.

I had it running Desqview on DOS.  With the 2 modems and phone lines and running 2 text-only communications programs I could connect to two BBS platforms at once.

Back in 1989 the above system was the envy of my friends.

Now who's old?

 

[TrashyMG]

Back in 1989 the above system was the envy of my friends.   Now who's old?

 I couldn't hear you over the creaking of your bones.. I had a very lame Tandy 1000HX in 1989.. Stunts and lemmings in CGA blew.. 

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I have a Commodore SX-64, but it was a gift for my 21st birthday in 2009, not something I had when they were new.

As for your system, Grench, I would want something like that now!

 

[Letalis Sonus]

I have a Commodore SX-64, but it was a gift for my 21st birthday in 2009, not something I had when they were new.

Similar here - I bought a C64C off my school for 20 bucks in '09. They bought it '89 for Chemistry, but never used it - it was still in its original packing, totally untouched Our Physics teacher still used a 486 with a turbo button for teaching, though - measuring voltages with a DOS program and printing the results with a needle printer without auto feed.

Well, I did grew up with a Commodore Plus/4, at least until my father replaced it '96 with a PC. My brother didn't even remember how we played Trailblazer on it together when I once again played it with him on that C64.

 

[DrHAX]

I have a Commodore SX-64, but it was a gift for my 21st birthday in 2009, not something I had when they were new.

Similar here - I bought a C64C off my school for 20 bucks in '09. They bought it '89 for Chemistry, but never used it - it was still in its original packing, totally untouched
Our Physics teacher still used a 486 with a turbo button for teaching, though - measuring voltages with a DOS program and printing the results with a needle printer without auto feed.


Well, I did grew up with a Commodore Plus/4, at least until my father replaced it '96 with a PC. My brother didn't even remember how we played Trailblazer on it together when I once again played it with him on that C64.

Why can't I find vintage freakin computers like this. The earliest I nearly got was an early 90's Mac. 92-3? My mother forbid me because it was a boat archor came with the printer and a big box of software. Wish I could have gotten it.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Its forbidden to put toys in food..

but wats about guns in food ???

Guns arent toys, so it should be ok..

I still waiting for the Cases to be ready, so whyle whe waiting, whe can easely make offtopics,,

Is it forbidden to put threads within threads? Is there a law against that? Let's discuss this ephemeral russian doll.

 

[rygD]

While some would like candy coloured Pyras, or even a chocolate coloured option, I would prefer to stick with grey or black.  Maybe beige.  I don't think others would appreciate that as much as those of us who were around when that was a popular choice for computer cases.

Even those of us who lived through the beige era may not be very interested. I grew up almost exclusively on IBM ThinkPads, followed by a 233MHz HP Pavilion which was two different shades of dark grey.


Those ThinkPads with their black housings, elegant, functional design and TrackPoint III pointing sticks spoiled me on anything more razzle-dazzle than the black Rebirth-edition Pandora I own now.


The only beige PCs we ever owned were an IBM PC (can't remember whether it was an XT or AT) when I was a baby and a 386SX with 2MB of RAM which was when I was very young and mainly used while my father had his earliest laptop at work. (We got to keep his old laptops when they were replaced. I still have the ThinkPad 755C)

Yes, that is why I said "maybe".  I don't think I would want beige, but I would have to see it to decide.  ThinkPads are beautiful, and I don't know why.  Did they try to make them look nice, or do some of us just like how plain and simple they are?  I mean the older ones.  I haven't owned one in the last 10 years, so I don't know how much the design has changed.  Also, you don't have to like the look of a beige computer to appreciate how they led to where we are, and I was thinking a beige Pyra would be a nod to those.

A Computer Shopper magazine to lift the motherboard off the desk so the cards could insert.  These were about 2" thick at the time.

Oh, the memories!  I wasn't really allowed to touch what we had at home back then.  Luckily I had access to computers at other places, I just wasn't usually allowed to open them up and poke around inside.  Those magazines kept me busy.

 I couldn't hear you over the creaking of your bones.

That may be me you heard.  I used to run a lot, and I am now quite creaky.  You should hear me go up stairs, I am noisier than some people 3 times my age.

I have a Commodore SX-64, but it was a gift for my 21st birthday in 2009, not something I had when they were new.

Similar here - I bought a C64C off my school for 20 bucks in '09. They bought it '89 for Chemistry, but never used it - it was still in its original packing, totally untouched
Our Physics teacher still used a 486 with a turbo button for teaching, though - measuring voltages with a DOS program and printing the results with a needle printer without auto feed.


Well, I did grew up with a Commodore Plus/4, at least until my father replaced it '96 with a PC. My brother didn't even remember how we played Trailblazer on it together when I once again played it with him on that C64.

Why can't I find vintage freakin computers like this. The earliest I nearly got was an early 90's Mac. 92-3? My mother forbid me because it was a boat archor came with the printer and a big box of software. Wish I could have gotten it.

Look harder and ask around.  They are out there, sometimes in unexpected places.  I know a few people that have lots of old hardware I am interested in.  Most of it is not up for grabs, and I am waiting for some stuff that someone told me they would just send me, since they no longer use it.  You can find things pretty cheap (try ebay), just be aware that sometimes the shipping is more than what you paid for the items.  I paid around $0.50 per computer for a lot that I bought, but the shipping was at least $50.  My old monochrome monitor was more expensive than those computers, but I still paid a pretty penny for shipping.

 

[DrHAX]

While some would like candy coloured Pyras, or even a chocolate coloured option, I would prefer to stick with grey or black. Maybe beige. I don't think others would appreciate that as much as those of us who were around when that was a popular choice for computer cases.

Even those of us who lived through the beige era may not be very interested. I grew up almost exclusively on IBM ThinkPads, followed by a 233MHz HP Pavilion which was two different shades of dark grey.


Those ThinkPads with their black housings, elegant, functional design and TrackPoint III pointing sticks spoiled me on anything more razzle-dazzle than the black Rebirth-edition Pandora I own now.


The only beige PCs we ever owned were an IBM PC (can't remember whether it was an XT or AT) when I was a baby and a 386SX with 2MB of RAM which was when I was very young and mainly used while my father had his earliest laptop at work. (We got to keep his old laptops when they were replaced. I still have the ThinkPad 755C)

Yes, that is why I said "maybe". I don't think I would want beige, but I would have to see it to decide. ThinkPads are beautiful, and I don't know why. Did they try to make them look nice, or do some of us just like how plain and simple they are? I mean the older ones. I haven't owned one in the last 10 years, so I don't know how much the design has changed. Also, you don't have to like the look of a beige computer to appreciate how they led to where we are, and I was thinking a beige Pyra would be a nod to those.

A Computer Shopper magazine to lift the motherboard off the desk so the cards could insert. These were about 2" thick at the time.

Oh, the memories! I wasn't really allowed to touch what we had at home back then. Luckily I had access to computers at other places, I just wasn't usually allowed to open them up and poke around inside. Those magazines kept me busy.

I couldn't hear you over the creaking of your bones.

That may be me you heard. I used to run a lot, and I am now quite creaky. You should hear me go up stairs, I am noisier than some people 3 times my age.

I have a Commodore SX-64, but it was a gift for my 21st birthday in 2009, not something I had when they were new.

Similar here - I bought a C64C off my school for 20 bucks in '09. They bought it '89 for Chemistry, but never used it - it was still in its original packing, totally untouched
Our Physics teacher still used a 486 with a turbo button for teaching, though - measuring voltages with a DOS program and printing the results with a needle printer without auto feed.


Well, I did grew up with a Commodore Plus/4, at least until my father replaced it '96 with a PC. My brother didn't even remember how we played Trailblazer on it together when I once again played it with him on that C64.

Why can't I find vintage freakin computers like this. The earliest I nearly got was an early 90's Mac. 92-3? My mother forbid me because it was a boat archor came with the printer and a big box of software. Wish I could have gotten it.

Look harder and ask around. They are out there, sometimes in unexpected places. I know a few people that have lots of old hardware I am interested in. Most of it is not up for grabs, and I am waiting for some stuff that someone told me they would just send me, since they no longer use it. You can find things pretty cheap (try ebay), just be aware that sometimes the shipping is more than what you paid for the items. I paid around $0.50 per computer for a lot that I bought, but the shipping was at least $50. My old monochrome monitor was more expensive than those computers, but I still paid a pretty penny for shipping.

My schools made it illegal to sell stuff it had to be destroyed. So all of the old computer lab computers.. smashed and thrown into a dumpster

 

[rygD]

That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.  I have worked a lot with data that was much more sensitive in nature than what a school would have, and even then the media used for storage is the only thing that is usually destroyed.  HDDs are even reused sometimes after appropriate measures have been taken to ensure recovery is not possible.  I can't imagine why anything else would need to be destroyed.  Many schools/colleges/universities/government organizations sell their computers in auctions, and the lot I mentioned earlier came from a school system somewhere.  One of the places I worked at a long time ago threw out a bunch of old computers and such.  I was not in an IT role with them, but when I came across the dumpster I grabbed what little I could since I knew it would all be gone the next morning.  It seemed such a waste to me, and I wish to this day that I had a car back then to save it all.

Edit:  I was recently talking to some people at a college and they said that the computers get gathered up and sent away to be auctioned off.  I am not sure where the money from that auction goes, but I would think that the schools would benefit from the little bit of extra money they could get from selling the old hardware.

 

[matzesu]

According to Twitter, EvilDragon just ordered 10200 Nubs which should be enough for 5000 Pyras..


But i have a question: why only 5000??


If i do the mats, then i get 5100 Pyras from 10200 Nubs, unless every Pyra get more than 2 Nubs, but i ditnt think so..


Mybe the 200nubs where for repairs, or if some nubs ditnt work..


And how much is one nub??


Enyway: they wouldnd order 10200 Nubs, of they arent sure the Pyra will be work..