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Djoga'Ro

moonstruck
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Not really since autists have a problem with multi-tasking while I know ADHS peeps who can only do multi-tasking and not just one thing at a time.
Thought autist have it easy minding their own business, until approached in a way or by someone they're not used to? And, that ADHS folk is easily distracted, when not hyperfocusing?

Happy Thanksgiving, America.

And good luck on Black Friday to all the places we've exported that to now. Sorry about that, BTW.
I don't care about that so much, but could you please take back that utterly annoying Halloween business? Kids here see it on TV en masse every year and actualy think, if they go trick'r'treatin, their audience would be prepared for that.

Superior in what? Being a source of misery and death? If I would beat some philanthropist (e.g. RMS or whoever you consider to have done many great things for humanity) to death, would that make me superior to him? Or would that just make me a bad person, like a cancer killing a good cell?
In a way, yes, the victor's superior. But superiority isn't an absolute term. We can chose, which kind of superiority we make count.

You're paying people to kill small animals for your dining pleasure. There's nothing noble about it. It's even bad for your health.
When I buy meat, I rather pay someone, who paid someone...
It's ok to kill plants, but not animals? I'm not saying i like the industrialisation of animal processing. And as long as it wouldn't come to that, we gotta eat something, and it seems to be ok for other animals (than us) to kill and eat animals.
 

levi

Still fresh, damnit!
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It's commonly understood that even rattus norwegicus (the common lab rat) can experience emotion enough to laugh when tickled; I've never seen a similar response from my herb garden, however I tickle it.

Amongst the great apes, it's just us and the bonobos that have a taste for meat., as far as I know. Most hominids eat a lot of fruit, but only eat insects occasionally.

But it's a bit simplistic to ignore the evolution that separates us from our nearest neighbours, genetically. We've evolved to make use of vitamin B12, and I don't know of any way to get that from dietary sources apart from eating specific bateria, algae or most animals. Helpfully for vegans, staple foods such as bread are often treated with vitamin B12 (at least some of which comes from algae), or they can take vitamin B12 supplement pills.
 
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Dr. λ the Typer of Terms

Inferrer of Types and β-Reducer of β-Redexes
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It's ok to kill plants, but not animals?
It's OK to kick a flower, but not a dog? It is, because plants have no conscious.

Besides, you actually kill more plants if you eat animals because it takes more than 1 KG of plants to make a KG meat. That's because animals eat too and every food chain starts with plants. The shorter your chain the more efficient you can live. On top of that, fruit can be eaten without harming any plant or animal.

it seems to be ok for other animals (than us) to kill and eat animals.
I'm not sure what kind of meat you buy but most meat nowadays comes from animals who have been horribly tortured throughout their whole lives. I'm actually more opposed to the torturing than I am to the killing. Granted, I do not kill any animal for my own entertainment —not even if that entertainment comes in the form of eating it's flesh— but I think that torturing the animals really goes too far.

Amongst the great apes, it's just us and the bonobos that have a taste for meat., as far as I know. Most hominids eat a lot of fruit, but only eat insects occasionally.
Bonobo's eat mostly fruit like all other apes. They can taste meat and probably eat it too sometimes, but so do deer so that's not saying a whole lot. Almost any animal can survive on meat—even herbivores and frugivores. However, herbivores and frugivores cannot thrive on it. I think that natural food is more about thriving than it is about surviving. Though someone who eats his species' natural diet will live longer due to improved health.
 

levi

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Bonobo's eat mostly fruit like all other apes. They can taste meat and probably eat it too sometimes, but so do deer so that's not saying a whole lot. Almost any animal can survive on meat—even herbivores and frugivores.
I don't disagree. Wikipedia says:
The bonobo is an omnivorous frugivore; 57% of its diet is fruit, but this is supplemented with leaves, honey, eggs, meat from small vertebrates such as anomalures, flying squirrels and duikers, and invertebrates.
57% means it does mostly eat fruit, but quite a lot of other stuff as well.

This is probably the most pertinent source in question: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02382754

That suggests they strongly prize meat, and actively hunt it (although presumably it comes after their favourite pastime; fucking). It also suggests that this is very similar behaviour to that of the bigger chimps, which I take to mean that they also enjoy meat.
 

JDTAY

Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
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Guys, I need (more) help (than usual). Somebody just gave me a plant as an early Christmas gift. There is now a living thing depending on me for its survival.

So, obviously, what I'm asking for help with is the eulogy. Does anyone know what religion plants follow?
 

Dr. λ the Typer of Terms

Inferrer of Types and β-Reducer of β-Redexes
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That suggests they strongly prize meat, and actively hunt it (although presumably it comes after their favourite pastime; fucking). It also suggests that this is very similar behaviour to that of the bigger chimps, which I take to mean that they also enjoy meat.
I read that chimpansees eat less than 2% of their diet in meat and when they do it's often to get rid of the previous alpha's children or to impress females. Either way, if human ate more than 50% of their diet in fruit, less than 2% in meat, no dairy, and besides that only raw food that are eggs, honey, nuts, seeds, leafy greens, or vegetables then they would be much healthier. It's really unfortunate that most humans do not even come close to eating this healthy.

57% means it does mostly eat fruit, but quite a lot of other stuff as well.
It does seem that most primates fall between 50% and 70% fruit based, with some gorilla's supposedly going as high as 67%. Now compare that with what many humans think i.e. that fruit is comparable to candy and think that 2 banana's per day is more than enough to stay healthy. Fruit is the backbone of our natural diet and meat is the real candy here. People have got it all reversed. Their meals should be mostly fruit and once every week or 2 weeks they should optionally consume meat for the taste if they insist (the body could clean out that much). That meat should be expensive meat that's farmed ethically (ethical meat cannot be cheap, it costs money to raise animals ethically). Because people would eat so little meat they could pay for ethical meat. If the world was like that then both animals and humans would benefit greatly from it.
 

ible

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not a very serious point, but given the rapid despeciation of our planet, we could probably do more cultivating of animals for meat (and/or domesticating for pets) in order for them to survive the human-started ecopocalypse. e.g. cows and chickens, dogs and cats we don't worry about...

i'm all for eating less meat, of course, and raising the animals ethically. but some people thrive on it (e.g. inuit), so personal health can't be the #1 reason people quit eating so much. it probably will come down to money; at least in America people don't want to drive electric cars because of the price point (and probably some fossil-fuel-company scare tactics). but once the cost discrepancy is gone, the remaining hesitations will be wittled away. i.e. meat needs to be more expensive.
 

Dr. λ the Typer of Terms

Inferrer of Types and β-Reducer of β-Redexes
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not a very serious point, but given the rapid despeciation of our planet, we could probably do more cultivating of animals for meat (and/or domesticating for pets) in order for them to survive the human-started ecopocalypse. e.g. cows and chickens, dogs and cats we don't worry about...
But the meat industry is a huge drain of resources and a huge source of toxic waste. Those animals are typically also sick because they're forced to live in their own waste resulting in infections. I once got the opportunity to get a tour in a stall were pigs were kept and the stench was horrible. We definitely do not need more of that. There was also a sick pig lying outside just suffering. We had to use some flattery to get inside so I did not speak my mind, but it was really disgusting. It was just like many of those animal rights documentaries where they show animals suffering in stalls.

but some people thrive on it (e.g. inuit),
Apparently Inuits typically died at young age and were rarely older than 60 years. In addition they had a lot of diseases. So they did not thrive.
 

levi

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I read that chimpansees eat less than 2% of their diet in meat and when they do it's often to get rid of the previous alpha's children or to impress females. Either way, if human ate more than 50% of their diet in fruit, less than 2% in meat, no dairy, and besides that only raw food that are eggs, honey, nuts, seeds, leafy greens, or vegetables then they would be much healthier. It's really unfortunate that most humans do not even come close to eating this healthy.


It does seem that most primates fall between 50% and 70% fruit based, with some gorilla's supposedly going as high as 67%. Now compare that with what many humans think i.e. that fruit is comparable to candy and think that 2 banana's per day is more than enough to stay healthy. Fruit is the backbone of our natural diet and meat is the real candy here. People have got it all reversed. Their meals should be mostly fruit and once every week or 2 weeks they should optionally consume meat for the taste if they insist (the body could clean out that much). That meat should be expensive meat that's farmed ethically (ethical meat cannot be cheap, it costs money to raise animals ethically). Because people would eat so little meat they could pay for ethical meat. If the world was like that then both animals and humans would benefit greatly from it.
I liked your post because I mainly agree with it, but just to warn that we shouldn't base our diets too closely on that the other primates eat naturally. You're sitting at a computer or using a phone to argue with me, and that's not something I've ever seen an ape do (I think they used to get chimps to use computer screens to run tests, but I've never seen any reading from a screen, and their spelling is frankly atrocious).

If you want to spend most of your day outside, and give up your car, and pick and eat your food from your garden then I won't stop you. Logically, leaf vegetables look like a good bet for your main food source, since they're relatively cheap and often contain the vitamins and minerals you need. Then there's starch sources like potatoes and grains, and perhaps parsnips. Other root vegetables including turnips (e.g. swede/rutabaga), radishes and carrots look to be a bit sweeter, but still the sort of thing you could eat daily without problems. Then there's most fruit which is high sugar. Pure high sugar sources like sweets and cakes should be kept more for special occasions. At least that's the theory especially if you actively want to lose weight.
 

Dr. λ the Typer of Terms

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You're sitting at a computer or using a phone to argue with me, and that's not something I've ever seen an ape do
That's true, and I doubt it's really healthy. But it's not all or nothing. It's just that I am not perfect. But I agree that we are different from apes so we could have different needs. But seeing that we share most features that are related to diet with apes, I'd expect us to also need a diet that's at least somewhat similar.

Then there's most fruit which is high sugar. Pure high sugar sources like sweets and cakes should be kept more for special occasions. At least that's the theory especially if you actively want to lose weight.
Fruit worked great for me when it comes to losing weight and keeping it off. Supposedly the other nutrients in fruit help to properly digest the sugars.

Sweets containing a lot of refined sugar should IMO almost never be eaten. Personally I can not even enjoy them anymore because I've become so sensitive that they make me nauseous when I eat them.

leaf vegetables look like a good bet for your main food source, since they're relatively cheap and often contain the vitamins and minerals you need. Then there's starch sources like potatoes and grains, and perhaps parsnips. Other root vegetables including turnips (e.g. swede/rutabaga), radishes and carrots look to be a bit sweeter, but still the sort of thing you could eat daily without problems.
Yup, they're a lot of food that's at least decently healthy. I do not get why some people think being vegan is hard (except for giving up cheese). I think that a diet of these foods could significantly improve many people's health.
 

levi

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Well the main difficulty in becoming vegan it seems to me is getting a complete diet of proteins. It seems a lot more practical to eat meat a couple of times a week and not have to worry about this amino acid or the other, but it's fair to say I've been rather lazy in looking it up.
 

rSl

i'm not tired. you're tired.
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Guys, I need (more) help (than usual). Somebody just gave me a plant as an early Christmas gift. There is now a living thing depending on me for its survival.

So, obviously, what I'm asking for help with is the eulogy. Does anyone know what religion plants follow?
1. don't panic!
2. watch this

3. enjoy
 

ible

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funny story about plants. almost every time my mom visits, she expresses concerns that the plants are too dry, i.e. that i'm not watering them enough. (i water them once a week.)

you'd think that after multiple times seeing the same plants, still alive and green, that she would be less concerned about that...

the trick is to get plants that aren't too picky.
 

kuru

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I had a little Aloe Vera plant. This rugged little thing strived. You don't have to water those regularly, they're frugal (is that the proper word?).
And then I watered it too much and it started to rot. Oh well.
Got a few Tamarillo seeds, will try to get something going in spring. Also many chili seeds I collected from store bought pods. Found delicious cherry tomatoes last summer and am looking forward to sowing those again. Will try Garden lovage again, didn't have any luck with those this year. [/blah]

Came here to post this:
Most of you know about the Blizzard and China thing. This here is an interesting detail to the whole hubbub I hadn't heard about.
 
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