So...Will there ever be a Pandora 2?

[Nintendo]

There won't be a Pandora2.

 

[rohezal]

If there are enough sales for the P1, I think ED will maybe do a kickstarter. He knows people who can the technically stuff (dave mweston, notaz) and maybe use the ICP2 for it.

 

[Tenka]

I don't believe that "EvilDragon" can use the "ICP2" for anything.

 

[ekianjo]

...and maybe use the ICP2 for it.

No thanks, no Craig-related stuff in the Pandora projects anymore, please. Who wants to work with him anyway ??

 

[Avversario]

...and maybe use the ICP2 for it.

No thanks, no Craig-related stuff in the Pandora projects anymore, please. Who wants to work with him anyway ??

Everybody seems to hate him. Why? Am I missing something? Enlighten me

 

[ShleeDragon]

...and maybe use the ICP2 for it.

No thanks, no Craig-related stuff in the Pandora projects anymore, please. Who wants to work with him anyway ??

Everybody seems to hate him. Why? Am I missing something? Enlighten me

Nobody hates craig... he made the pandora, got a team together and invested a lot of money to make the product we know and love.

BUT he's burnt himself out. Made a few mistakes.

In my eyes, he doesn't ask for help.... or publicly plan ahead. Everything we know about Craig is 6 months after something does/doesn't happen. and somebody is chasing it up / trying to fix the problem.

 

[Mr_Loon]

If Craig has said he does not want to see a Pandora 2 then we should respect that wish. The Pandora was his concept, and from my distant memory he also gave the name Pandora to the system. To make a Pandora 2 without support / approval from Craig would be totally wrong in my opinion.

However there is nothing to stop anyone else making a modular mini laptop with hardware keyboard and gaming controls and calling it something else.

Pandora 2 is dead, long live Dragonscale (or Dragonfly etc.)

 

[Wally]

haha Dragonfly sounds awesome actually

 

[Mr_Loon]

haha Dragonfly sounds awesome actually

+1

I suggested Dragonscale but the more I think about it the more I like ParadisoShlee's suggestion of Dragonfly. Dragonfly is a bit less 'D&D dweeby' with great potential for marketing / logo / memorability.

 

[_wb_]

I certainly hope there will be a Pandora 2 at some point (I don't care how it will be named), and I hope it will be made by people who learn from their mistakes, i.e. no repetition of the pre-order hell, no unkept promises, no lies, but total openness towards the community and taking their wishes seriously into account.

I think that implies that Craig cannot be part of such a project, and I think most of the key figures in the Pandora scene have the same opinion, both the hardware people (ED, fatih) and certainly the software people (notaz, skeezix, Exophase, etc). I'm not sure how MWeston and DaveC view this, but I suspect that although they might have some loyalty left towards Craig, they could still be interested in participating in a project without them.

The main problem would be (as is so often the case) the money. For now, the Pandora hasn't been profitable to anyone, instead it has left both Craig and ED with debts. So in a sense, the situation is worse than when the original Pandora project started: instead of having no money, they have negative money.

On the other hand, the situation is better than when the original Pandora project started: instead of having no experience, they now have quite a lot of experience. Also in terms of software, there's a lot of stuff that had to be developed for the Pandora and that can be reused for a successor.

So I'm actually quite optimistic. If the mistakes of the past can be avoided in the future, a Pandora 2 could be a huge success.

 

[vcoleiro1]

IF Craig doesn't want to do a P2 and he is also happy with others developing another system (perhaps with a different name), then I'll mention something that I'm sure will come up eventually.  

An ED and Justin (From GCW) partnership - together with MWeston , Dave C , (Justins Crew ?) etc.

 

[ShleeDragon]

If Craig has said he does not want to see a Pandora 2 then we should respect that wish. The Pandora was his concept, and from my distant memory he also gave the name Pandora to the system. To make a Pandora 2 without support / approval from Craig would be totally wrong in my opinion.


However there is nothing to stop anyone else making a modular mini laptop with hardware keyboard and gaming controls and calling it something else.


Pandora 2 is dead, long live Dragonscale (or Dragonfly etc.)

I want a pandora 2... this is pretty obvious. If Craig is gone, just get Craig to give ED his blesssing.

I hope that ED has already asked Craig about the P2.... the way I see it. He can gather the troops.. talk to Craig about his contacts. talk to Weston about the hardware, Dave about the case, Fatih about the parts and his contacts. and make a game plan....

Craig can help ED make the Pandora 2 and sell it as a retailer for some money on the side

I think ED needs to start investigating how much money he would need to make a working prototype...... and get this party started (in 12 months time).

 

[Mr_Loon]

I want a pandora 2... this is pretty obvious. If Craig is gone, just get Craig to give ED his blesssing.

I hope that ED has already asked Craig about the P2.... the way I see it. He can gather the troops.. talk to Craig about his contacts. talk to Weston about the hardware, Dave about the case, Fatih about the parts and his contacts. and make a game plan.... If ED needs to use kickstarter it has been proven to work so well.

Craig can help ED make the Pandora 2 and sell it as a retailer for some money on the side

Why do you think that a 'blessing' is required or desired from Craig for ED to produce a mini laptop?

There are plenty of other design engineers that could be used for case / PCB, it would be nice in terms of continuity to have input from DaveC & MWeston but it would be in no way essential. Though if we could just get DaveC to do the Dpad & Mweston the audio side of things then I for one would be a happy bunny.

As for Craig selling P2 as a retailer then that makes sense, but seems unlikely as he does not even want to retail P1 which from my perspective is mind bogglingly bizarre / stupid due to his commitments to those waiting for units / refunds.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I want a pandora 2... this is pretty obvious. If Craig is gone, just get Craig to give ED his blesssing.


I hope that ED has already asked Craig about the P2.... the way I see it. He can gather the troops.. talk to Craig about his contacts. talk to Weston about the hardware, Dave about the case, Fatih about the parts and his contacts. and make a game plan.... If ED needs to use kickstarter it has been proven to work so well.


Craig can help ED make the Pandora 2 and sell it as a retailer for some money on the side

Why do you think that a 'blessing' is required or desired from Craig for ED to produce a mini laptop?


There are plenty of other design engineers that could be used for case / PCB, it would be nice in terms of continuity to have input from DaveC & MWeston but it would be in no way essential. Though if we could just get DaveC to do the Dpad & Mweston the audio side of things then I for one would be a happy bunny.


As for Craig selling P2 as a retailer then that makes sense, but seems unlikely as he does not even want to retail P1 which from my perspective is mind bogglingly bizarre / stupid due to his commitments to those waiting for units / refunds.

The reason Craig hasn't started selling publicly is the following -

1. If Craig starts selling new pandora's.... his current preorder queues are going to feel left out......
2. Craig doesn't really want to deal with this stuff anymore...

That said I think it's bullshit. I hope that Craig opens a store and starts selling Pandora's via some kind of affiliate system / drop shipping.

Craig has publicly announce that he cannot refund a single dolor anymore, so his queue is dead without ED..... so he might as well just give his queue (with his mailing list) to ED.... wipe his hands clean and walk away.

 

[ShleeDragon]

If ED does decide to launch the Pandora 2... Create a new brand.. new forum, new staff, new GIT..... and spend lots and lots of time trying to get developers to join us. 

Because I know lots and lots of developers who were scared away from the Pandora... some of the guys working on the GCW are a good example.

 

haha Dragonfly sounds awesome actually

 
I want my Dragonfly!~
 

 

[Maquis196]

Theres also another way to view the pandora 2, if you think about the pandora 1 was financially a disaster, that will improve hopefully but why not do what craig has done with the icp2? Create a new seperate company with seperate finances, use kickstarter to get it off the ground (so you know you've got the money you need up front), and everything is seperate, feel free to use profits from the p2 to pay for the p1 shite leftover but generally, use the p2 to make money.

No reason both can't be done, and hell. I'll will put a lot of money into the p2 kickstarter, just dont tell the girlfriend, she wants me to buy her a mini :S

 

[ShleeDragon]

No reason both can't be done, and hell. I'll will put a lot of money into the p2 kickstarter, just dont tell the girlfriend, she wants me to buy her a mini :S

Yep, Getting it pushed using KS is the perfect way to go forward.

Similarly... I've got a bunch of money sitting in my wallet waiting for ED to ask for it.


I've got some money I would happily donate to the R&D of the Pandora 2

 

[Grench]

IMHO:  The key to making a 'Pandora 2' or 'Dragonbox' or 'Phred' is to keep the development costs as low as possible.

The way to do that MAY be to keep everything that works on the existing Pandora - and upgrade/replace the bits that are out of date.

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11080-what-if-we-back-up-a-bit-and-make-it-more-incremental/

I can see two iterations.

2.0.  New motherboard with updated components, but keeping the same screen.  No new plastics.  Port a mini HDMI out where the goofy connector is now.  So - it can drive high resolutions to an external screen.

2.5  Six months to a year later release a unit with an upgraded 16:9 display and the speakers moved down to where our light pipes are now.  Use clear speakers shoved/wedged/glued in where the light pipes were and let the lights shine up through them.  Lid plastic bezel piece changes, the base plastics remain the same.

We don't need a new keyboard.  Our battery still rocks.  The audio system is arguably the best of any device.  Give it more CPU, memory, video and replace that WiFi chip and go.  Yes, the case is a bit clunky - but that IS a significant part of the device's charm.

Grand re-designs with split cases and all are neat dreams.  What design can be done to get us the capabilities while spending as little time and money as possible on development?

 

[Mr_Loon]

IMHO:  The key to making a 'Pandora 2' or 'Dragonbox' or 'Phred' is to keep the development costs as low as possible.

IMHO that approach would be utter folly.

Money spent on prototyping and developing can lead to huge savings & a better product later on. One of the mistakes of the Pandora project was not to spend enough on these aspects. (If proper prototyping had been done with P1 then the problems of mass RMA's with the nubs & LCD cables could have been avoided etc.)

Lets look at a couple of potential but entirely hypothetical goals for the Dragonfly project :

1) Sell units at $500

2) Sell 10,000 units to cover design / development costs.

That would generate income of $5 million

To me a spend of $250,000 on software / driver development, Hardware design & prototyping would be entirely reasonable and would equate to $25 per unit sold. That amount does not really strike me as unreasonable.

 

[ShleeDragon]

FIVE MILLION DOLOURS!!!

The Pandora 2 would cost $250,000 to produce if Craig, Weston, Dave, ED, Fatih didn't have the experience to do it inhouse plus the openmoko/gcw zero/hardware community connections.

Hopefully the Pandora and the iCP2 can make sweet love and the baby Pandora 2 will come without much hassle....

Gossip: Considering the iCP2 is being built by the factories ED is in communication with.... using the designs Craig made with DWeston. I think the machine to create the prototype is pretty well oiled!