Should Pyra have a Camera?

[God Ginrai]

Just because the 3DS and Vita have cameras does not mean it is "standard". It would at least need to have proceeded from the previous generation. If the PSP and DS had had cameras, and then the 3DS and PS Vita continued to have cameras, then the argument could at least be made that they were standard. (although I still wouldn't consider it so unless it had been for 3 generations)

-God Ginrai

Well, it was on the DSI. Do you think they are going to suddenly drop them on their next handhelds?

The DS-i also dropped the GBA port which was on the GBA, GBA SP, GBA micro, Nintendo DS, and DS Lite. Are you going to claim that Nintendo dropped a standard port that had been on their past 5 handhelds?

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

The DS-i also dropped the GBA port which was on the GBA, GBA SP, GBA micro, Nintendo DS, and DS Lite. Are you going to claim that Nintendo dropped a standard port that had been on their past 5 handhelds?
-God Ginrai

I don't think we can compare gaming format to features and controls.

That said, it's not like we can put a GBA cartridge in the 3DS.

 

[God Ginrai]

The DS-i also dropped the GBA port which was on the GBA, GBA SP, GBA micro, Nintendo DS, and DS Lite. Are you going to claim that Nintendo dropped a standard port that had been on their past 5 handhelds?

-God Ginrai

I don't think we can compare gaming format to features and controls.That said, it's not like we can put a GBA cartridge in the 3DS.

No, being able to play GBA games was a feature on the DS. But that's my point, just because it was a feature did not make it a standard. Just like how the presence of a camera as a feature on the 3DS and Vita does not make it a standard.

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

No, being able to play GBA games was a feature on the DS. But that's my point, just because it was a feature did not make it a standard. Just like how the presence of a camera as a feature on the 3DS and Vita does not make it a standard.

-God Ginrai

I really don't think you can compare the two, but let's agree to disagree.

 

[Kiga]

 I never used it too (when I has a smartphone). but I am aware that it can be useful sometimes, and if you don't have any camera it can be an handicap if something important to record happen.
Has a multifunction device, you carry everywhere, it is a necessity to have a camera to me.


Pyra will be the ULTIMATE portable device so even if I don't want it to be like smartphone, I think a camera is useful and it is necessary to be the ultimate.

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't justify it as a "necessity". Because you can apply the same vague argument to just about any feature. (ex. "The Pyra can't call the police, and that's a necessity in times of emergency")

-God Ginrai

Well, it depend on how you view the Pyra. If you see it as a gameboy, it isn't a necessity.

But I see it has the ultimate portable device, and  according to my criteria a camera is needed to be it. (I also want 3G/4G as an option to talk about "call the police")

I also prefer the reliability but camera isn't hard to include.

 

[God Ginrai]

I never used it too (when I has a smartphone). but I am aware that it can be useful sometimes, and if you don't have any camera it can be an handicap if something important to record happen.

Has a multifunction device, you carry everywhere, it is a necessity to have a camera to me.

Pyra will be the ULTIMATE portable device so even if I don't want it to be like smartphone, I think a camera is useful and it is necessary to be the ultimate.

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't justify it as a "necessity". Because you can apply the same vague argument to just about any feature. (ex. "The Pyra can't call the police, and that's a necessity in times of emergency")

-God Ginrai

 Well, it depend on how you view the Pyra. If you see it as a gameboy, it isn't a necessity.

But I see it has the ultimate portable device, and  according to my criteria a camera is needed to be it. (I also want 3G/4G as an option to talk about "call the police")

I also prefer the reliability but camera isn't hard to include.

"Ultimate" is subjective. You and I can have different definitions of it. If it was a truly "ultimate" portable device capable of taking pictures as well, then wouldn't it need a better camera than your standard cell phone camera? I'm not trying to suggest we should not have a camera, just trying to teach you that "want" and "need" are not the same thing.

-God Ginrai

 

[Binky]

Seem the only thing about them that aren't standard, is good cameras. Let's change that.

Good cameras cannot practically be built into a handheld console or computer.

Good cameras look like this:

http://images03.olx.com.pk/ui/2/87/01/1374296514_529408601_1-Pictures-of--Canon-PowerShot-HS-220-excellent-condition.jpg

or this:

http://www.ephotozine.com/articles/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz200-digital-camera-review-20309/images/highres-panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz200-lens-extended-1_1348667326.jpg

or maybe this:

http://tonacitran.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/red-gunner-4.jpg

Not this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Nokia_5800_XpressMusic_Camera.jpg

Judging from the mixed responses to this thread, I would suggest that anything more that a bad (normal smartphone) camera is a waste of space and budget

 

[Natsu]

Seem the only thing about them that aren't standard, is good cameras. Let's change that.

Good cameras cannot practically be built into a handheld console or computer.

Good cameras as in today or yesteryear phone standards. Of course I wasn't talking about dedicated cameras. 

 

[Kiga]

Well, it depend on how you view the Pyra. If you see it as a gameboy, it isn't a necessity.

But I see it has the ultimate portable device, and  according to my criteria a camera is needed to be it. (I also want 3G/4G as an option to talk about "call the police")

I also prefer the reliability but camera isn't hard to include.

"Ultimate" is subjective. You and I can have different definitions of it. If it was a truly "ultimate" portable device capable of taking pictures as well, then wouldn't it need a better camera than your standard cell phone camera? I'm not trying to suggest we should not have a camera, just trying to teach you that "want" and "need" are not the same thing.

-God Ginrai

That's why I said "and  according to my criteria a camera is needed to be it"

Of course it is subjective, criteria for being in ultimate (portable device) to me is:

1. Usefulness (which also include quality)

2. Possibility (wich include harware(wich include parts issues & battery life & reliability), price)

3. Usualness in the category (portable device)

Camera have a middle "Usefulness", a high "Usualness"  and a "high "Possibility" .

Usefulness is the most important criteria, so if usefulness was low it would be disable. But it is middle and the high "Usualness" and "Possibility" make it enable

Usualness (in category portable device) can be weakened if you view it as a straight gameboy, wich is incorrect because it is able to function like a computer.

Usefulness can also be weakened if you always carry a smartphone with your Pyra or if the camera quality is really bad.

The only valid argument is worst camera quality or worst reliability . And I trust enginneer(s) to this (should I ?).

 

[God Ginrai]

Usualness (in category portable device) can be weakened if you view it as a straight gameboy, wich is incorrect because it is able to function like a computer.

The category of "portable device" is a lot larger than Cellphones, handheld gaming devices, and laptops/umpcs. A camera is not "usual" in many portable devices. (watch, fitness bands, mp3 players, etc.)

The Pandora was a gaming handheld/umpc. The Pyra intends to be the same. That's all you really need to consider. Within that category, a camera is not "standard", but will provide benefits for many users with its inclusion.

-God Ginrai

 

[rohezal]

Some companies like Audi or hosting services don't allow cameras because of security issues. As I know that quite some system administrators use the Pandora in-house, that would be a downside.

True, make it plugable or sell usb stick cameras, which are very tiny?

 

[vcoleiro1]

Ford never allowed camera's either ie no smartphones with camera's.  People that obeyed that rule -> Zero

In the end, they changed the rule to only be for the design studio, but I don't think that was even enforced in the end.

 

[WizardStan]

My last job forbid cameras as well. The official solution to phones with a camera in them was to place a sticker over the camera aperature. This was obeyed every time an auditor came to ensure we were following procedure.

 

[_wb_]

I don't think the "no cameras rules" problem should stop us from adding a camera in the Pyra. In the worst case, if you want to use the device in an environment where the rule is enforced strictly, you'll have to destroy the camera physically and a few bucks have been wasted. I don't think many people are in that situation, I don't think "not having a camera" would really be a feature anyone is specifically looking for.

The main advantage of having a camera built-in instead of using a USB one is that it is easier to support one camera model well in the firmware than to include drivers for all possible models, and when making Pyra-specific software, you can assume that it is there and you know its specs. Also it is more convenient and keeps the USB port free.

 

[God Ginrai]

Weird question: How deep are the internals for large camera modules? Technically we have the whole back of the top of the clamshell to work with for including a more powerful camera. The only limitations would be weight, cost, and space behind the screen and speakers. I'm just curious, since a lot of naysayers say no specifically because most small embedded cameras suck.

-God Ginrai

 

[bzar]

Camera is absolutly necessary for those who don't have a smartphone like me and don't want to carry another device.


I don't undestand why some people don't want to have it and how you can carry a huge smartphone with your Pandora?


I don't use a camera frequently, but the camera would be a big advencement for the new Pandora aka Pyra and a camera can be useful occasionally. I really want to use my Pyra as a smartphone with a little phone without camera.


And at this price a lot of people wouldn't buy it because it hasn't camera.

How large a segment of the potential buyers would you estimate you're speaking for here? My guess would be a very, very small one. It may be sample bias, but in my experience by and large most people have phones with cameras they lug around anyway nowadays. The ones that don't are either elderly (not exactly Pyra's target segment) or isolated cases. I think I'm currently aware of three (with a quick count) people in all my immediate social circles that don't have a phone with a camera. Two of those are elderly. This is, of course, very subjective and anecdotal. I'm open to hearing about other experiences or studies saying otherwise.

In any case, I'm not sure including a feature just to serve a niche within a niche is sound, if it adds significant cost or complexity.

 

[_wb_]

I'm 32, I don't know if that counts as "elderly" but I would hope not.

I don't have a smartphone. I use an old Nokia dumbphone that costed 20 EUR back when I bought it, 5 years ago or so. It has a very good battery life and it usually has a better cellular network reception than the people with smartphones around me -- e.g. in our parking garage, I'm usually the only one who can make a call. It does not have a camera. It does what it needs to do well and reliably. If I would get myself a smartphone, it would not be to replace my phone, but rather to have an 3G/4G internet connection and to play with it. I don't think I'll get one any time soon.

I do have a (crappy) dedicated camera and use it e.g. on holidays. But more often than not I don't have it with me when I could use it. I also have a (crappy) (video) camera in my laptop, which is one of the reasons why I still bring my laptop with me when going abroad instead of just my Pandora -- I want to be able to do video calls with the wife and kids. The other reason is that my laptop is more suitable for giving presentations, since at most conferences you cannot use composite or S-VIDEO (the beamer will probably accept it, but if the beamer is ceiling-mounted you're stuck with whatever they give you, usually just VGA), and for slides those are a bit low-res anyway.

 

[bzar]

It doesn't, I'm 30 . I was talking more about the 70+ crowd.

Also thanks for sharing . As said, I may have sample bias and I have no studies to back up my anecdotes. Hearing about different experiences broadens my perspective on this.

 

[Løra (Lolla)]

Pyra with cam and microphone = good for using when travelling also. i.e more versatile which was what I was trying to say in my former post

 

[Kiga]

How large a segment of the potential buyers would you estimate you're speaking for here? My guess would be a very, very small one. It may be sample bias, but in my experience by and large most people have phones with cameras they lug around anyway nowadays. The ones that don't are either elderly (not exactly Pyra's target segment) or isolated cases. I think I'm currently aware of three (with a quick count) people in all my immediate social circles that don't have a phone with a camera. Two of those are elderly. This is, of course, very subjective and anecdotal. I'm open to hearing about other experiences or studies saying otherwise.

In any case, I'm not sure including a feature just to serve a niche within a niche is sound, if it adds significant cost or complexity.

I'm 20 and I'm so proud of my 30$ nokia phone without camera. Maybe I am an isolated case but I see lot of people who have a phone like mine.

Even if we are isolated case I think to have camera is important to make Pyra a all-in-one umpc. Minimal phone for battery life + all-in-one Pyra for games/internet/camera....  is the more effective combinaison. Camera will not be an issue for someone who want to chose between Pyra and a smartphone.

As our favourite portable device, it should have a camera so we wouldn't have to chose between it and another if we have to go somewhere we can't carry all our stuff.