Should Pyra have a Camera?

[Haraldur]

RygD, we have discussed this before: cameras can be effectively disabled with a cap, or tape, or some other opaque object (the Nokia N900 had a cap), but microphones are much more of a security threat, as such simple expedients do not work (or not so well).

Better arguments against cameras are: ergonomics, space, bulge and cost.

 

[Bosbeetle]

RygD, we have discussed this before: cameras can be effectively disabled with a cap, or tape, or some other opaque object (the Nokia N900 had a cap), but microphones are much more of a security threat, as such simple expedients do not work (or not so well).

Better arguments against cameras are: ergonomics, space, bulge and cost.

Microphones can be easily disabled by moving crackling foil  and circumvented by whispering in crowded situations.

 

[benoitb]

This would be quite good I think to use with the Pyra. It looks small and easy to orientate as a webcam or a camera to record your suroundings.

http://usb.brando.com/usb-mini-web-cam_p00434c043d015.html

I couldn't find it on sale however, it looks discontinued.

 

[rygD]

 

RygD, we have discussed this before: cameras can be effectively disabled with a cap, or tape, or some other opaque object (the Nokia N900 had a cap), but microphones are much more of a security threat, as such simple expedients do not work (or not so well).

Better arguments against cameras are: ergonomics, space, bulge and cost.

Yes, we have.  I have my preferences, you have yours.  You listing alternatives does not change mine.  Microphones are not a problem for me.  Don't think that you can change my opinion by merely stating yours.  I will almost always choose not to have a camera in a device unless I am planning on using it as a camera, which is not how I intend to use things like this.

Microphones can be easily disabled by moving crackling foil  and circumvented by whispering in crowded situations.

Or by not saying things you don't want people to hear...

 

[Urben]

Microphones can be easily disabled by moving crackling foil  and circumvented by whispering in crowded situations.

Or by not saying things you don't want people to hear...

I hope you guys are joking

 

[rygD]

I was, but I was also being serious.

 

[Natsu]

It's too bad you can't just stick this into the lid.

If someone made a case for this, and have a way to stick it on the lid, I wouldn't care about just a little bit of cord.
In fact, I could just buy a small cord if it isn't built in.

http://www.e-consystems.com/8MP-USB3-Autofocus-Camera.asp

The cheaper options are going out of production, unfortunately. Never mind, they do have cheaper ones.

To be clear, I do think the usb camera is a good idea, but 3rd party ones just aren't good. They're either too big or the cord is too long and built in. Would be better to have no cord. It would be nice to have a standard camera for all the Pyras too.

 

[comradekingu]

Oh look, the thread is back...


Yeah, the Pyra is sure to take some flak from the masses for not having a camera. It is one of those checkbox features that people will use to disqualify a product if it doesn't have it. For the Pyra it was the lack of a phone and gps, for the Pyra it will be the lack of a camera.


Downside is that most USB cameras add a pretty ugly bulge to the unit. I certainly would like some solution as it would be most useful for scanning QR codes as well as capturing receipts, whiteboard content and tasks and perhaps even video calls.

You can still add a camera, difference is its optional, and upgradable, also modular, since you can select from a whole range of things.

Having a built in camera and microphone without dedicated switch, is a veto-clause for some people too. So it depends what your market is.

Common everyone is that a camera adds complexity and cost, which makes it not add value to the premise of selling the product.

 

[Caine]

You can still add a camera, difference is its optional, and upgradable, also modular, since you can select from a whole range of things.

Sure, but you can make that statement about any feature. Gaming controls and keyboards are also optional, upgradable and modular (that's why most smartphones leave them out).I understand that different people have different use-cases and given the support for a camera within the community it is a reasonable choice to cut on the cost.

The downside of not including it is that the tiny form-factor of builtin cameras is simply not available as a modular extension. At least, I haven't been able to find any.

I do not want to carry around large USB camera attachments, loose USB cables or anything like that. It will just be too clunky and get in the may most of the time.

This means that all use-cases which would have been covered by a builtin camera become unfeasible. Unless you can point me to a satisfactory add-on.

 

[comradekingu]

Difference is it makes sense, because a handheld computer can never be a good camera, and me and enough other people said it.

Hack it yourself. Maybe there are unused pairs on the screen cable, if they are broken out i both places it should be fairly trivial.

You run into the problem that one camera doesn't solve, (unless it rotates, or has a periscope, both of which add another level of potential fail-prone complexity); front facing, or backward.

And fairly soon you will probably consider stereoscopic cameras essential, in both directions.

What i don't see happening is that doing the job of a camera.

The same goes with a projector. Some things are just infeasible due to physical limitations of light and optics.

Speakers is a prime example, because of thiele-small parameters but always requiring headphones (which are not included), or external rig (for what is a portable device) was seen as enough of a reason to include them.

I do carry headphones and a camera, a pandora, and a laptop if i want to type anything.

At home i have a real keyboard, real screens, real microphone, additional headhpones, etc, and real mouse.

It even goes to trackball and digitizing tablet.

If the pyra keyboard is better a lot of things would be easier. A comparable usbcam/solution is small.

 

[Caine]

I'm not sure why you are arguing that it shouldn't have a camera. It doesn't have a camera. The hardware is finalized.

My point, or better said my intended point, was that quite a few members of the community want to have some form a camera capability each for their own reasons. The only interesting discussion from this point onward is either what type of hacks are possible (I'm not a fan of hardware hacking the unit myself) or what type of add-on cameras are out there.

So, as said, my own use-cases:

• I want to capture whiteboard content, receipts and/or other pictures which function as a GTD reminder in my inbox that I need to do something (e.g. process the receipts, meeting notes, do some task etc.).
• I think that scanning QR codes would be useful functionality to have.
• Nice to have would be video-calls, but I'm not even sure the software stack will handle that properly.

I think it would be interesting to discuss possibilities, in terms of external add-ons, to handle these kind of use-cases. So far, all tiny USB cameras I have been able to locate either aren't USB cameras or are way bigger than I care them to be.

 

[Natsu]

"A handheld computer can never be a good camera." I'm sure a bunch of Smartphone users that uses their phone as their main camera says otherwise.

I'm all for an usb attachment, but it would need to be specifically made for they Pyra. It would solve the over paranoia, camera elitists, bad 3rd party options, "too much time" / listen to ED group, a whole another Pyra version problems and bring a camera standard, which would probably get more support than just random 3rd party cameras. Also, no cord could be nice.  Not having to hack your own Pyra and less people and media criticism than having none would be a plus too.

I'm sure some people are on the fence or put off because of camera. At least a 1st party attachment would meet them 1/2 way. Oh, and if it has blu-tooth, you can make proper video calls.

 

[TrashyMG]

"A handheld computer can never be a good camera." I'm sure a bunch of Smartphone users that uses their phone as their main camera says otherwise.

A smartphone is a different animal than the Pandora/Pyra, the clam-shell design makes it a bit clumsy to do smartphone like activities. 


 

 

[Natsu]

A smartphone is a different animal than the Pandora/Pyra, the clam-shell design makes it a bit clumsy to do smartphone like activities.

I use my 3ds' cameras just fine. I would use them more if they were better cameras...

Plus it is not like Smartphones can't be in a clam-shell design.

 

[benoitb]

Caine, I have the same usage you mentioned of a camera on my smartphone: video conferencing, and "scan" of receipts and whiteboards. Since my Pyra won't cover these usages, I will still carry a smartphone around.

 

[TrashyMG]

A smartphone is a different animal than the Pandora/Pyra, the clam-shell design makes it a bit clumsy to do smartphone like activities.

I use my 3ds' cameras just fine. I would use them more if they were better cameras...
Plus it is not like Smartphones can't be in a clam-shell design.

Okay but is it convenient to use... on the DS sure there may be some convenient way of launching the camera function. On the pyra outside of flipping up the lid and such you will need to navigate a standard desktop gui.

 

[Natsu]

Okay but is it convenient to use... on the DS sure there may be some convenient way of launching the camera function. On the pyra outside of flipping up the lid and such you will need to navigate a standard desktop gui.

It takes one extra step, opening the lid, but yeah. While it should only take you a moment in remembering where the icon should be, I'm sure someone can develop a quick toggle to the camera app. Especially, if there's a camera standard.

 

[TrashyMG]

There is a camera application?

 

[Natsu]

There is a camera application?

For the Pyra? Not yet.
For the 3ds? Yes.

 

[_wb_]

I'm sure there are plenty of camera applications in the Debian repositories.