Should Pyra have a Camera?

[Natsu]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that a 600 EUR smartphone would probably have a much better camera than a 600 EUR Pyra.

The big phone companies invest a lot into perfecting the camera for their flagship phones (which is what ~600 EUR would buy). Pyra won't have nearly as much effort put into it's camera.

While that might be true, they can possibly use existing smartphone cameras.

actual phone software, the code that handles "connect to tower" and "dial this number" and "is there an incoming call?" messages, and loops the Pyra audio device to the UMTS audio device. It's going to be up to us users to put such a thing together.

Why would they dump that on the users, especially when they are working hard to get everything else working for them? Do they not get help from the company that they are buying the chip from in the first place?

And trust me, it's a bitch to get the software side of things working for phone calls. Just take a look at the OpenWebOS project. They had to adopt libhybris to get the phone functionality to work, and even then, it's still not suitable for calls yet, because there is no phone app coded for OWO that interfaces with the libhybris driver yet.

-God Ginrai

Can't say I know much about this and didn't realizes it would be that hard.
Does some of the difficultly comes from the OSES or will there be the same amount of difficulty

if you used a OS like android?

"Voice" is sounding useless, if you can't even use it.

 

[WizardStan]

Why would they dump that on the users, especially when they are working hard to get everything else working for them?

Because ED has said, several times, that he doesn't want to make a phone, it is a lot of work. The fact that it CAN be used as a phone is literally an afterthought, three wires and a small fee convert the modem into a voice device so EvilDragon said "ok, that's a cheap addition, here you go, do what you want with it".It's like any other software: are you complaining that it's up to the users to produce new emulators and games? Of course not. A phone daemon is just more software that needs to be written.

Do they not get help from the company that they are buying the chip from in the first place?

No, why would they? What other company does? Nvidia doesn't provide a video player, that's why we have VLC and MPlayer.

 

[moxie]

The big phone companies invest a lot into perfecting the camera for their flagship phones (which is what ~600 EUR would buy). Pyra won't have nearly as much effort put into it's camera.

While that might be true, they can possibly use existing smartphone cameras.

No. Or rather, yes, if they buy a bunch of high-end smartphones, rip out the camera and the DSP and integrate that into the Pyra. It would probably be expensive, though.
A camera, in the sense of something that you take photos with (i.e. different from 640x480 webcam) is not just the sensor. It is the sensor, the optics, a dedicated DSP and image processing code running on that DSP. That code is expensive and time-consuming to develop, and I doubt Samsung will be very happy to give that code to you, even if you ask nicely. The chip isn't something you get for free, either. 

A low-quality facing camera (that is, an equivalent of an integrated webcam) would be technically possible - There are all-in-one solutions for this - but that would most certainly not be something that would replace the camera in your high-end phone.

"Voice" is sounding useless, if you can't even use it.

Ah. You're getting there.

 

[Kiga]

It's more feasible to carry a Pyra alone than to carry a Pyra + a smartophone, right?

I don't care about a high end camera, I just want a camera which allow you to see what happen, most people don't really care anyway, a 5mp average camera is enough.

Anyway, I guess ED want to let it for the next Pyra and do it well.

 

[Yoyobuae]

I wish someone would make a cheap minimalistic phone, which is only meant as a companion to a bigger non-phone device (ie. tablet, Pyra, etc).

Have a look at this:http://www.lidl.de/de/silvercrest-telefonhoerer/p109651-b215

Its 8 euro. It features the apple connector, but has 3 extra connectors, for nokia, and of course, to undo the apple connector to the ISO standard that the openPandora has... and it works on it too...

Haha, not quite what I had in mind.

 

[Natsu]

Because ED has said, several times, that he doesn't want to make a phone, it is a lot of work. The fact that it CAN be used as a phone is literally an afterthought, three wires and a small fee convert the modem into a voice device so EvilDragon said "ok, that's a cheap addition, here you go, do what you want with it".

Didn't take that "can be used as a phone" as a meaning that voice can't even be used, period, before the user.

It's like any other software: are you complaining that it's up to the users to produce new emulators and games? Of course not. A phone daemon is just more software that needs to be written.

That's not even the same thing. It like selling the Pyra and saying the users should do the software to getting it to work before you can even get to making new emulators and games.

Would you buy the Pyra, if it's that way?

No, why would they? What other company does? Nvidia doesn't provide a video player, that's why we have VLC and MPlayer.

Because that specify what their chip does, make calls and go on the internet? 

No. Or rather, yes, if they buy a bunch of high-end smartphones, rip out the camera and the DSP and integrate that into the Pyra. It would probably be expensive, though.


A camera, in the sense of something that you take photos with (i.e. different from 640x480 webcam) is not just the sensor. It is the sensor, the optics, a dedicated DSP and image processing code running on that DSP. That code is expensive and time-consuming to develop, and I doubt Samsung will be very happy to give that code to you, even if you ask nicely. The chip isn't something you get for free, either. 


A low-quality facing camera (that is, an equivalent of an integrated webcam) would be technically possible - There are all-in-one solutions for this - but that would most certainly not be something that would replace the camera in your high-end phone.

I give you all that other stuff, but that buy a "bunch of high-end smartphones..."


Doesn't fly when they didn't have to do the same for the screen.


Besides, something like this will be fine.

"Voice" is sounding useless, if you can't even use it.

Ah. You're getting there.

Not sure what you mean by "getting there". If it did work and was utilized, it would be a nice


feature.

 

[TrashyMG]

It like selling the Pyra and saying the users should do the software to getting it to work before you can even get to making new emulators and games.  

Okay so it looks like you do understand how it works in this community.

Because that specify what their chip does, make calls and go on the internet? 

No the chip companies only provide the details on how to properly wire up the chip and details on how the software will interface with it.. it's up to the buyers to actually make the phone software.. 

 

[WizardStan]

It like selling the Pyra and saying the users should do the software to getting it to work before you can even get to making new emulators and games.

Yes, through your sarcasm you may have touched on the truth. That is exactly how it is. ED et al have absolutely nothing to do with the games and emulators, everything is community driven, including the web browser. There's no reason to suspect the phone software to be any different.

Not sure what you mean by "getting there". If it did work and was utilized, it would be a nice feature.

It will work and it will be utilized. I don't know why you think it won't. When I say the only thing missing is software I mean the GUI, the thing that lets you dial numbers, the daemon that runs in the background and does something to let you know there's an incoming call. The TTY driver is there, the audio driver is there, the missing pieces are basically the equivalent of an audio player and a web browser.
Perhaps it's the use of the term "the user" that is confusing you? When we say "the user" we don't mean every single person has to do something, we're saying one person (or perhaps a couple) need to figure out the details. It's like anything else in it, the 3D, the audio, the network.

It's more akin to the DSP in the Pandora, except that while the DSP was a pain in the ass to figure out and still nothing uses it, I've already concocted a bash script for making phone calls. Apply that script to a fancy front end and you've got most of a phone.

 

[Natsu]

Okay so it looks like you do understand how it works in this community.

Yes, through your sarcasm you may have touched on the truth. That is exactly how it is. ED et al have absolutely nothing to do with the games and emulators, everything is community driven, including the web browser. There's no reason to suspect the phone software to be any different.

I'm not sure if intentionally, but you are missing my point. For example, who's working on getting the screen working right now? ED and the other 2. Not the ones that are going to buy it.

It will work and it will be utilized. I don't know why you think it won't. When I say the only thing missing is software I mean the GUI, the thing that lets you dial numbers, the daemon that runs in the background and does something to let you know there's an incoming call. The TTY driver is there, the audio driver is there, the missing pieces are basically the equivalent of an audio player and a web browser.

The thing is, I expect that to at least be somewhat done. I mean at least something before it releases.

How can we even talk to others about it?

1-and you can also make phone calls,...

2-Cool!

1-once it releases...

2-I know that. 

1-and work on by the users. 

2-Oh. I can wait. 4G, right?

1-3G. You have to wait for 4G too.

2-... Never mind I'll just buy a phone.

1-... :unsure:

:lol:

 

[zonova]

I didn't really want ot ti replace my phone, just my laptop. I don't have a smartphone, not everyone does believe it or not. Being able to video call with my pyra would have been a very cool feature. Also video chatting with a phone sounds very awkward. Doing the camera dsi style would have been the only acceptable option for me, but if it's not possible, I understand. I'm just sick of people saying it's not useful or is a waste

 

[Neelix]

How can we even talk to others about it?

1-and you can also make phone calls,...

2-Cool!

1-once it releases...

2-I know that. 

1-and work on by the users. 

2-Oh. I can wait. 4G, right?

1-3G. You have to wait for 4G too.

2-... Never mind I'll just buy a phone.

1-... :unsure:

:lol:

Exactly.  If someone needs a phone they should buy a phone.   The Pyra is not a phone,  it just happens to be physically capable of acting like one. 

- Neelix

 

[WizardStan]

I'm not sure if intentionally, but you are missing my point. For example, who's working on getting the screen working right now? ED and the other 2. Not the ones that are going to buy it.

Yes, they are working on the screen. The screen will be able to display pictures. ED and gta04 are not making the pictures that will be displayed on the screen, they're just making sure that it is physically capable of displaying pictures.They will work on the UMTS module. The modem will be able to connect to the internet and the voice module will be able to send and receive audio. They are not working on the GUI that would let you dial a number, they're just making sure that it will be physically capable of dialing a number.

 

[moxie]

The thing is, I expect that to at least be somewhat done. I mean at least something before it releases.

How can we even talk to others about it?

1-and you can also make phone calls,...

2-Cool!

1-once it releases...

2-I know that. 

1-and work on by the users. 

2-Oh. I can wait. 4G, right?

1-3G. You have to wait for 4G too.

2-... Never mind I'll just buy a phone.

1-... :unsure:

:lol:

...and that is exactly why it is a very bad idea to advertise the Pyra as a phone. Because it won't be. So the solution is to not talk to others about the Pyra as a phone.

 

[Granitehead]

It's a bad idea to advertise the Pyra as a phone. It's not a bad idea to try to make it work as a phone for the people who want it, as long as it's not too expensive.

 

[klapse]

It's a bad idea to advertise the Pyra as a phone. It's not a bad idea to try to make it work as a phone for the people who want it, as long as it's not too expensive.

But the question is *who* should do that work, if anyone. Some people want Pyra to ship with phone functionality. Others disagree and think it should be a community add-on. And still others don't care for phone functionality at all.

The first of these is highly unlikely to happen, alone because of the support headaches that would ensue.

 

[moxie]

It's a bad idea to advertise the Pyra as a phone. It's not a bad idea to try to make it work as a phone for the people who want it, as long as it's not too expensive.

And that will, of course, be something that this community of compulsive hackers will get right on as soon as they can get their grubby little mitts on the thing. As well as countless other weird and wonderful things. Possibly a year from release, we can say without lying that "...and oh yeah, you can make phone calls with it in a pinch - ED ans gta04 connected things up in the beginning so that the possibility was there, and then people did all sorts of things with it. Here, let me show you the twitter-to-text-message gateway that I hacked up yesterday...", but that is not something that will be there from the start, and that is why we should avoid trying to sell it based on any kind of phone capabilities.

 

[ZetaNeta]

Just leave the interface, as we did for 2 leds, R2/L2, 5 gpios, JTAG, Keyboard backlight and etc... Everything else will be done by me

 

[God Ginrai]

Can't say I know much about this and didn't realizes it would be that hard.

Does some of the difficultly comes from the OSES or will there be the same amount of difficulty

if you used a OS like android?

Well, there are 4 parts of functionality this involves:

• Hardware: This will be provided for us.
• Drivers: This may exist, but I think that it will be unlikely that it will be feature complete. Writing these drivers is complex work, and I don't remember anyone saying they would write the drivers for the chip. I'm sure the Data drivers will likely exist, since EvilDragon was including 3G for the Data functionality, however I am skeptical that the voice drivers will exist.
• Services: This will not be provided for us.
• GUI: This will not be provided for us.

With Android, you get all of those provided, however, that does not mean it will definitely work out of the box. First of all, a version of Android would need to be adapted to work correctly on the Pyra; Android is not a system that just works wherever you put it. Next, there might need to be some changes that need to be changed in the phone software to make it work with our chip; I can't tell you if that will actually be needed or not, since I do not have much experience in this area.

"Voice" is sounding useless, if you can't even use it.

 It will be at the beginning. Just like we eventually got DS emulation on the Pandora, we will probably get voice on the Pyra.

It's more feasible to carry a Pyra alone than to carry a Pyra + a smartophone, right?

It's more feasible to carry a smartphone alone rather than a smartphone and a 3DS, right? However, anyone who wants a good gaming experience will take their 3DS along with them.

-God Ginrai

 

[Kiga]

It's more feasible to carry a Pyra alone than to carry a Pyra + a smartophone, right?

It's more feasible to carry a smartphone alone rather than a smartphone and a 3DS, right? However, anyone who wants a good gaming experience will take their 3DS along with them.

And?

You could carry a Pyra and have both great phone and gaming experience without bother yourself with 2 big devices. You could play games calling (even videocalling with camera) your friends, you could write your sms easily with the keyboard etc...  Videocalling or skype would be much more usable than with a smartphone or a tablet since you can just pose it on a table and enjoy. The only feature Pyra will not have is vibrator but you could buy a vibrator bluetooth headset or a smartwatch. All that with a big battery!

The only feature smartphone have and Pyra will not have is camera and that's what we want.

 

[God Ginrai]

And?

You could carry a Pyra and have both great phone and gaming experience without bother yourself with 2 big devices. You could play games calling (even videocalling with camera) your friends, you could write your sms easily with the keyboard etc...  Videocalling or skype would be much more usable than with a smartphone or a tablet since you can just pose it on a table and enjoy. The only feature Pyra will not have is vibrator but you could buy a vibrator bluetooth headset or a smartwatch. All that with a big batterie!

The only feature smartphone have and Pyra will not have is camera and that's what we want.

Damn you must have some heavy-duty rose-tinted glasses. The Pyra would be bulky to use as a phone, it would be very awkward to hold while making calls, and that battery will not last long if you are playing games while on a phone call using a bluetooth headset. Also, videocalling is another thing that is more of a pipe dream than anything. All of the video-calling solutions on phones, including skype, are proprietary. The only way you would get any of that is if we found a way to get the skype android application to run on the Pyra.

-God Ginrai