Reality Check - Would you really pre-order on a KS?

[EvilDragon]

The website is gbax.com looks like a hardware trading thing, with some pandora-related bargains.

he wants the P2 to be HIS vision and not the communities'.

 Well he consulted on the iCP2 keyboard layout, RGB backlighting and such.  The community is involved to some extent.

But we don't even know what the keyboard layout will be, even though he even announced it as a competition with a prize (as far as I remember).

I don't know how long you've been here, but as far as I know the only community involvement so far were the first plans for the Pandora.

If everything went according to Craig, we wouldn't have the repo, as he was strictly against it.

He wanted to do his own store, ignoring the API and PND-Manager that already existed.

Perhaps if people are more friendly to Craig he could feel welcome to discuss such things here and get more community involvement.

It's a vicious circle.

The community became that unfriendly BECAUSE he often went AGAINST the community and proved to be completely resistant to suggestions FROM the community.

The community still would support him, I think, as soon as he proves that he can be open and honest and work TOGETHER with the community.

Also he is working with other people such as Mike Weston on the iCP2, is he not?

 Yes. And?

Mike is a freelancer in this case. Craig basically books him for such projects.

Mike also got a fulltime job right now and family. As far as I know (he may correct me if he wants), he doesn't have the time to fully work on a successor.

He'd be happy to help out and consult with his experience, but he doesn't have enough spare time for such a huge project right now.

^ wouldn't read to much into that. The mk808b uses a dual core rk3066 soc not a quad core. Given that info is wrong, wouldn't be surprised if the rest is also.

Heh, it even says Dual Core on the preview picture

 

[EvilDragon]

I can't see ED going solo on a new Pandora/equiv if Craig was going to kick a stink up about it.  ED doesn't come across as the type of person that would go down that path knowing Craig was going to raise all kinds of shit and resistance. If he got the blessing from Craig, then sure .

I don't think I need a blessing for anything here. Why would I?

Sure, I don't like conflicts and would try to avoid them. That's why I already told Craig a while ago that I might work on something like the Pandora in the future (but won't do another project together with him).

I wouldn't keep the name - even though I own the server, the website and the trademark in Germany. It would still feel awkward for me, as Craig was part of the team and the main initator of the Pandora.

However, based on my experience, it would be way too risky and unstable for me to do another project with him.

Also, just out of curiousity , what other engineers are you referring to that ED knows?

There are quite a few ones.

My girlfriend works in CAD, for example, in a company who designs for Audi, BMW, etc.

I already asked them and yes, they would be willing to organize a full case design and production for me, if need be.

I'm also still in very good contact with Mike Weston, who told me he couldn't fully design something (lack of time), but he would be happy to help out with consulting, if need be.

I've also got a good contact to Nikolaus Schaller, the designer of the GTA04 (a PCB using the same SoC as the Pandora, just suited to fit into the GTA02 case).

He actually is the one who recommended GC to me, he helped me with the prototype run and he's living 5 minutes away from GC, which would help looking for errors when doing prototypes. And he is a freelancer, he would do the design for me if I like.

I'm also still working with Fatih. He still sources the parts for the current Pandoras and other things for me as well.

So yes, the contacts are there.

 

[Asiyura]

My girlfriend works in CAD, for example, in a company who designs for Audi, BMW, etc.
I already asked them and yes, they would be willing to organize a full case design and production for me, if need be.

… :rolleyes:

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ Good for you ED, I'm glad you posted that. I had pegged you as a conservative type who would avoid potential conflict with Craig, seems I was wrong.


To be honest I'm glad, as it gives hope that there will be a P2 ( or whatever you call it).

 

[konqithedragon]

....The Pandragon

 

[EssoAir]

I'm jelly of the CAD S/O you've got. Anyway, since you've been in this thread, I'd like to ask,


ED,


What can the community to (post all P1s being sold) to make the P2 (or whatever its called) as easy on you as possible. I feel like too much weight was put on your shoulders from Craig and the Community. If we could alleviate the community pressure, that'd be great.


So, what do you need from us?

 

[Binky]

To me, it seems* that everytime ED sits down to post about the possibility of a P2, he shows Craig up for a second grade pillock.

Tentative plans and preparations beat grand statements any day.

Even the free chocolate can't make that difference.

* EDIT: That is my opinion as a human - give it no more weight than you would any other Craig-insulting post. Less preferably.

 

[sswam]

Craig

I'll be happy to support and buy Pandragons, Craigdoras, and MonsterCamerotrons ... based on ARM, MIPS, AMD, Intel, and FPGA technology. Call me a mad fanboy.

And I promise to write and port astounding games for all of them.

Mike

My point is that the people promising to boycott "Craig" Pandoras may thereby be avoiding great work done by other people such as Mike. But whatever.

 

[sswam]

second grade pillock

I am expressing my opinion that this manner of speaking is unbecoming to a moderator. Be thankful I did not report you to yourself!

All is forgiven, and I still require you to play my game and win chocolate!

 

[konqithedragon]

Craig

I'll be happy to support and buy Pandragons, Craigdoras, and MonsterCamerotrons ... based on ARM, MIPS, AMD, Intel, and FPGA technology. Call me a mad fanboy.


And I promise to write and port astounding games for all of them.

Mike

My point is that the people promising to boycott "Craig" Pandoras may thereby be avoiding great work done by other people such as Mike. But whatever.

People boycott companies for numerous reasons... and I'm sure a lot of hard work and skill is put into some of these projects....  they'll still get boycotted tho.

 

[Binky]

second grade pillock

I am expressing my opinion that this manner of speaking is unbecoming to a moderator. Be thankful I did not report you to yourself!


All is forgiven, and I still require you to play my game and win chocolate!

Point taken. I should make it clear that I said that as a human with opinions, and most definatley not as a moderator with standards to keep up.


I don't need to add my voice to swarm of disdain.

<off-topic stuff moved to the Rescue thread - Binky>

 

[sswam]

I said that as a human with opinions.

yeah that was clear I'm just trolling you 

<off-topic stuff moved to the Rescue thread - Binky>

 

[EvilDragon]

^ Good for you ED, I'm glad you posted that. I had pegged you as a conservative type who would avoid potential conflict with Craig, seems I was wrong.

To be honest I'm glad, as it gives hope that there will be a P2 ( or whatever you call it).

 I wouldn't think of myself being conservative. I think I always try to stay in the back and help to keep things going, but will do what I have to do if necessary.

If I was a conservative type, I wouldn't have tried to get investors and get the Pandora back on track as well.

I certainly don't want any conflict. I'd be happy to sell and support devices Craig produces (if he wants and if I think they're useful and good quality), and I also would have no problem if Craig would like to sell any device I create in the future.

But some threads have shown that we have completely different thoughts of how to run a business.

I don't like the typical exaggerations, promises that can't be kept, etc. and then keeping silent when something doesn't work out perfectly.

And some threads have also shown that we have totally different opinions of how a successor should look like.

So it wouldn't make sense to work together on future projects in my opinion.

What can the community to (post all P1s being sold) to make the P2 (or whatever its called) as easy on you as possible. I feel like too much weight was put on your shoulders from Craig and the Community. If we could alleviate the community pressure, that'd be great.

So, what do you need from us?

 There's not much the community can except do for having good ideas, spreading the word, happily following the future.

I don't want any preorders until prototypes are 100% finished and mass production is ready, and I'll only take paid preorders in case I can not fund the mass production.

One thing that really bugs me is the openness of any successor.

If I'd work on a successor before the EOL of the Pandora 1, it would need to be kept in silence, as otherwise the sales would drop.

Though I would love to share the full development process with all of you.

And starting to work on a successor AFTER the EOL if the Pandora 1 would be too late, probably.

I could make videos and reveal one once a week when the prototype is finished, so everyone could follow the development afterwards

My point is that the people promising to boycott "Craig" Pandoras may thereby be avoiding great work done by other people such as Mike. But whatever.

I don't think anyone would boycott a "Craig" Pandora when he finishes the production and suddenly have them on stock.

It's just that people would be careful about a preorder, especially when they have to pay in advance, as both the Pandora 1 and the iControlPad2 didn't meet their deadlines.

 

[ingoreis]

I like to spend Money for Kickstart like things when i trust the Company fully.
The Pandora Project followed i a Year and then where the End was near (2 Month ;D) then preordered i fully one Unit.
And the 2 Month changes in nearly 2 Years,but i am very Happy with the Kickstart like Pandora Projekt.
So many People who dont gived up,keeper the Community alive and i can say i feel me Home here
Long first Time was i only in the German Community.

I want to say,when there is a Pandora2 vote what for Features are wished,participate i.
When a preorder is for the Pandora 2 in Future,will i Order one

When i trust a Kickstarter Project like ED and the Pandora Team,will i backend Kickstarters.

I dont get a Creditcard because i dont need one,when ever in the Future is a Solution to backend Kickstarters without a Credit Card,maybe i back some.

ED you do so much for the Project,thx from us all

 

[_wb_]

One thing that really bugs me is the openness of any successor.
If I'd work on a successor before the EOL of the Pandora 1, it would need to be kept in silence, as otherwise the sales would drop.


Though I would love to share the full development process with all of you.

This is an important issue, and a tough dilemma for ED.

I think it makes sense to select a few trusted and well-informed people like Exophase, notaz, Binky etc and discuss the design decisions with them. Some things can be discussed openly on this subforum too, without having to reveal too much.

Some people are already not buying a P1 because they're assuming the P2 will be there soon (after all, the P1 was first announced quite a while ago). So keeping things secret will not necessarily help for sales. It might be better to announce a target date (e.g. "early 2015") so people can judge for themselves whether they want to wait - perhaps some people have totally unrealistic things in mind, like a P2 being available in Two Months, so P1 sales could actually improve by announcing a realistic date for a P2. Another thing that could help is announcing that when the P2 comes out, you can "upgrade" your P1 to a P2 for less than the full cost of a P2.

 

[EssoAir]

I think it makes sense to select a few trusted and well-informed people like Exophase, notaz, Binky etc and discuss the design decisions with them. Some things can be discussed openly on this subforum too, without having to reveal too much.

oooOOOOOooo! I'd love to help out with that. I think I speak for the general consumer more than most here. (Im not a programmer or anything of the sort) I doubt I have the "trust" you are referring to, but if anyone is interested, I think I could aid in the marketing and end-consumer appeal.


Just a thought

 

[Binky]

Exophase, notaz, Binky

...and yourself!

you're one of the most sensible people on these boards

In terms of community consultation, I think the biggest problem we have over in P2 spam threads is the lack of electronic engineers.

Without really knowing what's possible, its hard to get opinions on what features would be useful.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yep, the spam threads certainly are used to get ideas, no worries about that.

And people like notaz, Exophase, skeezix, etc. would be involved anyways, so no worries about that.

 

[Franko]

One thing that really bugs me is the openness of any successor.
If I'd work on a successor before the EOL of the Pandora 1, it would need to be kept in silence, as otherwise the sales would drop.


Though I would love to share the full development process with all of you.

This is an important issue, and a tough dilemma for ED.

I think it makes sense to select a few trusted and well-informed people like Exophase, notaz, Binky etc and discuss the design decisions with them. Some things can be discussed openly on this subforum too, without having to reveal too much.

Some people are already not buying a P1 because they're assuming the P2 will be there soon (after all, the P1 was first announced quite a while ago). So keeping things secret will not necessarily help for sales. It might be better to announce a target date (e.g. "early 2015") so people can judge for themselves whether they want to wait - perhaps some people have totally unrealistic things in mind, like a P2 being available in Two Months, so P1 sales could actually improve by announcing a realistic date for a P2. Another thing that could help is announcing that when the P2 comes out, you can "upgrade" your P1 to a P2 for less than the full cost of a P2.

I don't think that ED needs to put out a tentative date for the release of a "P2" even.  Just simply stating that he/OP Team can't go forward with the next generation of machine until the P1 preorders have all been funded, should be enough.  Putting a specified date out there might still entice people that are on the fence to wait...


Man, 500 seems like a lot...I can't believe that Craig was sitting on that many (preorders).  I wonder how many returns he actually got and were salvageable?  

 

[lingenfr]

One thing that really bugs me is the openness of any successor.
If I'd work on a successor before the EOL of the Pandora 1, it would need to be kept in silence, as otherwise the sales would drop.


Though I would love to share the full development process with all of you.

This is an important issue, and a tough dilemma for ED.

I think it makes sense to select a few trusted and well-informed people like Exophase, notaz, Binky etc and discuss the design decisions with them. Some things can be discussed openly on this subforum too, without having to reveal too much.

Some people are already not buying a P1 because they're assuming the P2 will be there soon (after all, the P1 was first announced quite a while ago). So keeping things secret will not necessarily help for sales. It might be better to announce a target date (e.g. "early 2015") so people can judge for themselves whether they want to wait - perhaps some people have totally unrealistic things in mind, like a P2 being available in Two Months, so P1 sales could actually improve by announcing a realistic date for a P2. Another thing that could help is announcing that when the P2 comes out, you can "upgrade" your P1 to a P2 for less than the full cost of a P2.

I think that a better alternative would be to announce a P1 trade-in, buy-back or upgrade program. That encourages people to continue buying P1's right up until the point when the P2 is released. Trying to target dates is just bad business. The trade-in value doesn't have to be overly generous, but something reasonable. The trade-ins can be rehab'd and resold. There are a lot of details, but I don't think throwing a target date out there prevents the hold-outs. Most folks are impatient so if they can buy now, play now, trade-up later, I expect many will go for that. I would. I doubt that I would pre-order again unless ED could lay out a realistic near-term project plan.