GP2X [rant] Why Isn't Gph Embracing The Dev Community?

[MiniMoose]

Why isn't GPH totally embracing the dev community? You'd think with them being so pro Linux that they would set up CVS/Subversion servers containing their latest source code and set up a system similar to the Linux kernel project where people can submit patches that might make it into the next official firmware.

It's frustrating since many of the problems are being solved by industrious developers and posted as source code here that could easily be incorporated.

I wish they would collaborate with us more and provide us with a way to contribute to the "official" codebase.

 

[DJWillis]

Let's just say GPH are not even on the same page .

 

[woogal]

What make you think they're pro linux? The board they chose can run either linux or wince. One's free, the other isn't. I think it's pretty clear that they picked linux because of price, not because they wanted to embrace the whole open source thing.

 

[Hanz™]

I hate to shock you: but GPH are doing this to just try and get a free ride on the dev community. They don't really care about us.

 

[RiX0R]

Still... a central GP2X dev site offering repositories and bug tracking (a la SourceForge) is a pretty neat idea.

Has someone got any experience in setting something like this up? I'm more than willing to host it.

Edit: Hey, GForge looks promising. Is there any interest in a site like this?

 

[DJWillis]

Still... a central GP2X dev site offering repositories and bug tracking (a la SourceForge) is a pretty neat idea.

Has someone got any experience in setting something like this up? I'm more than willing to host it.

​

Well that is one of the main ideas behind Open2x (it already has the SF.Net site and CVS has the code in it) but until such time as GPH are at least going to respect the GPL and there obligations (there source released to date pre-dates version 1 of the firmware and lacks mPlayer and lib patches (the source for mPlayer we have is very old, not for the GP2X directly, rather the MMSP2, and was leaked by mistake)).

There are open kernels running off the Open2x code and the site, mailing lists, etc. etc. are all waiting to go but I have a huge moral issue with doing all this work for a company that basically pisses on the GPL, open source and all it entails (one of the great aspects of the community).

I would love to push more formal open source projects around things like the kernel but it feels like giving GPH a get out of jail free card and that’s just not on in my book . Especially considering the work that has gone into getting GPH to come this far towards GPL compliance. A lot of blood, sweat, tears and sleepless nights as they say and it’s far from a workable situation as it stands.

That said, there is a load of work going on behind the scenes (involving Open2x) on software development libraries and I think that is going to be quite (very) cool for the developers when it comes together.

 

[Hanz™]

I have a huge moral issue with doing all this work for a company that basically pisses on the GPL, open source and all it entails (one of the great aspects of the community).

Thats is what is really stressing me about GPH they think that just because GPLed software is freely distributed on the internet that it is right for them to use the code in a close source project.
And to say that it is because they fear that the Chinese rip-off merchants might try and copy them is obviously complete bollocks.

I am not saying that they will not get away with it, but at the rate everything is going here - eventually the source that we have will be better than theirs. If they then just rip the source people have made here and pretend it is theirs again - will anybody here mind?

 

[RiX0R]

You're right. I just realized I'm talking about something else completely: what I was proposing was more of a GP2X-dedicated SourceForge site for library and application development (Which I'm still willing to host provided there's enough people that'll actually use it).

Of course, the kernel is a whole 'nother beast, one which I'm not very familiar with. I do see your Open2x project as having the best chance of becoming the semi-official homebrew standard though.

Realistically, I don't think GPH is going to do much to collaborate with the community, which is a pity, because they clearly don't realize what kind of potential that would have. Their primary though was only: "Hey, Linux! Free beer!" and not much else. The best thing to do would be to cut loose as soon as we can, ditch all the software that GPH provided before we get too dependent on it, and develop our own (better) alternatives. Yes, I know that's easier said than done, but it'll happen in the long run.

To be honest though, we're already giving GPH a Get out of Jail Free Card. Without software, the GP2X is nothing, and who's developing it all? We are, not them! I actually don't see what vested interest they have in keeping all their source from us. If the argument is "copycats", I don't buy it. All software they based their work on is freely available, so it's available to the copycats as well, and I'm betting a moderate hacker can throw something similar together in a few weeks. I really can't see what the reason is. I do hope it's something better than just petty possessive behaviour.

 

[Angel]

I hate to shock you: but GPH are doing this to just try and get a free ride on the dev community. They don't really care about us.

​

actually now that i think of it in this perspective, don't ask me why i didn't think of it before, i'm probably not going to buy a Gp2x. Your absolutely right. Its the developers here that are making GPH their money not GPH themselves, as far as i know they haven't marketed this thing in anyway shape or form and are just sitting back and letting the money come in from word of mouth from sites like this and the hard work of all the developers, doesn't seem right to me, but maybe, hopefully i'm wrong.

Argueably you could say the same about the GP32 when it came out, BUT the GP32 was commercial and the Gamepark at the time did develope games for it. As far as i know, i don't think GPH has any intention on releasing anything commercial for the GP2X.

 

[Hanz™]

actually now that i think of it in this perspective, don't ask me why i didn't think of it before, i'm probably not going to buy a Gp2x. Your absolutely right. Its the developers here that are making GPH their money not GPH themselves, as far as i know they haven't marketed this thing in anyway shape or form and are just sitting back and letting the money come in from word of mouth from sites like this and the hard work of all the developers, doesn't seem right to me, but maybe, hopefully i'm wrong.

I have been thinking the same thing really - I am going to hold out for the handheld mr. Mirko is making unless GPH really gets their act together, as they are only holding back the GP2X's success and it is not responsible behaviour from a company that is trying to sell this type of product.
The sad thing is that they probably do not realise that people feel this way, and I doubt they would listen unless they had a couple of hundred people tell it to their face.

As far as i know, i don't think GPH has any intention on releasing anything commercial for the GP2X.

Well that isn't really true, they do have commercial plans for the GP2X - but even this I dislike, I get the feeling that actually GPH never had plans to make this a opensource handheld or dev handheld, and that really they just used that message to get people interested, with hidden motives.

 

[Angel]

do you think they got to comfortable with the homebrew developers making the money for the company starting with the GP32? When the commercial games stopped, for how long was homebrew emulators and games being the only release and the system still sold because of word of mouth and sites like this. And yet they still released the BLU and BLU+ with no intentions of more commercial games, sorry, there was one Blue Angelo. Thats hardly a reason to release a new type of GP32.

 

[msl]

It's easy to gauge GPH's attitude and view point. Email or phone them with a query, all they do is point you back to the forums. No feed back, little support or interest in the users.
What would they do without the knowlegable and enthusiastic community who devote their time freely to this project? Without you good people this device would be a useless plastic brick. I hope that some way down the line GPH's attitude changes for the better. Isaac Newton arrogantly said he was standing on the shoulders of giants, ring any bells GPH?

 

[davey g]

Wait ... what's going on here? Are people acting like this is something that's never happened before, has anyone ever claimed that GPH are great people with great ideas? In fact, has anyone even cared? The end result is all that matters. Hell, GPH themselves think all these people are buying it to watch movies so you can take their intentions from that. I don't see why this is all starting to matter now when it never has before.

 

[MiniMoose]

Wait ... what's going on here? Are people acting like this is something that's never happened before, has anyone ever claimed that GPH are great people with great ideas? In fact, has anyone even cared? The end result is all that matters. Hell, GPH themselves think all these people are buying it to watch movies so you can take their intentions from that. I don't see why this is all starting to matter now when it never has before.

​

I'm hoping that GPH will see what Apple did, or better yet what IBM did, and emulate them.

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

It would be much better for everybody if GPH would realize that we can help them significantly, embrace us as contributors to their great product, and allow us to work with and submit patches to the official firmware source code.

Like Apple and the iPod Linux hackers, I think GPH is missing an opportunity to vastly improve their product and their bottom line.

 

[Hanz™]

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

At that point GPH will copy the Open2x code and release it as their own?

 

[Radek]

Wait ... what's going on here? Are people acting like this is something that's never happened before, has anyone ever claimed that GPH are great people with great ideas? In fact, has anyone even cared? The end result is all that matters. Hell, GPH themselves think all these people are buying it to watch movies so you can take their intentions from that. I don't see why this is all starting to matter now when it never has before.

​

I'm hoping that GPH will see what Apple did, or better yet what IBM did, and emulate them.

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

Simply put in a NAND the GPH's firmware and boot Open2X from a SD card.

It would be much better for everybody if GPH would realize that we can help them significantly, embrace us as contributors to their great product, and allow us to work with and submit patches to the official firmware source code.

Like Apple and the iPod Linux hackers, I think GPH is missing an opportunity to vastly improve their product and their bottom line.

​

Problem with GPH is that they are very often clueless.

Most of current gp2x's issues could be easily avoided if someone would think a little there. As being quite new to the gp2x's (and this forum) I already realized it. It's very suprising that gp2x's bugs aren't more severe. I don't know why is that... Perhaps it's that because GPH is seriously understaffed and they simply can not react faster to users' requests?

At other hand for how long the "first edition" is shipping? Not that long and perhaps we are too impatient?

 

[gfoot]

Personally I bought the GP2X as a cheap piece of hardware - not in anticipation of decent bundled software. As a developer I'm very interested in pushing the system forwards with my own software. If I wanted to rely on software provided by the manufacturer I would have got a DS.

I understand the moral issues with free development supporting GPH while they haven't honored their side of the GPL, but it doesn't hugely bother me because I'd generally be more comfortable running a GP2X free of their software anyway, as soon as we can get something together. Of course that would be helped by them releasing more source, but it's still fun to do the research ourselves.

My main issue is fear of bricking though.

 

[davey g]

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

At that point GPH will copy the Open2x code and release it as their own?

​

Depending on what you mean by "release it as their own" I don't see a problem.

 

[Squidge]

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

At that point GPH will copy the Open2x code and release it as their own?

​

With absolutely no credit to the original authors no doubt...

Anyway, GPH don't do the Kernel. Dignsys do the kernel, and then pass them onto GPH for them to release. Dignsys slightly abide by the GPL - as in they eventually release there stuff, but it's certainly not top-priority.

 

[Dingo_aus]

Maybe a concerted campaign would help.

What if every one put a "Shame GPH" splash screen in their software. That way all software being made would be like a virtual petition. You wouldn't be able to run all the freely developed software without a reminder that GPH is dragging the chain.

I'd suggest a standard splash screen that was instantly recognisable.

Hey, the software is created by indie devs, they can do with it what they want!