GP2X [rant] Why Isn't Gph Embracing The Dev Community?

[davey g]

I hate to shock you: but GPH are doing this to just try and get a free ride on the dev community. They don't really care about us.

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actually now that i think of it in this perspective, don't ask me why i didn't think of it before, i'm probably not going to buy a Gp2x. Your absolutely right. Its the developers here that are making GPH their money not GPH themselves, as far as i know they haven't marketed this thing in anyway shape or form and are just sitting back and letting the money come in from word of mouth from sites like this and the hard work of all the developers, doesn't seem right to me, but maybe, hopefully i'm wrong.

Argueably you could say the same about the GP32 when it came out, BUT the GP32 was commercial and the Gamepark at the time did develope games for it. As far as i know, i don't think GPH has any intention on releasing anything commercial for the GP2X.

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Gosh darn it, this post, damn it makes so little freakin' sense. I've been sitting in front of this computer for 10 minutes trying to work out the logic to it.

I'll just say one thing. GPH designed and created the hardware. They are making their money off of the hardware. This is no different to Sony making a profit from one of their MP3 players.

 

[ZodiacfreaK]

Gosh darn it, this post, damn it makes so little freakin' sense. I've been sitting in front of this computer for 10 minutes trying to work out the logic to it.

I'll just one thing. GPH designed and created the hardware. They are making their money off of the hardware. This is no different to Sony making a profit from one of their MP3 players.

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ROFL that is absolutely hillarious.

 

[Hanz™]

The problem with the Open2X codebase is that it will become better at some point and there will be significant pressure to start using the Open2X firmware instead of the official GPH firmware. What happens when commercial games come along that depend on the quirks in the GPH firmware and won't run on the fixed/better Open2X firmware?

At that point GPH will copy the Open2x code and release it as their own?

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Depending on what you mean by "release it as their own" I don't see a problem.

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With absolutely no credit to the original authors no doubt...

That is what I mean, and most devs would be very pissed off to find that their work had been stolen and claimed to be someone elses.

I'll just say one thing. GPH designed and created the hardware. They are making their money off of the hardware. This is no different to Sony making a profit from one of their MP3 players.

That is rubbish get rid of the firmware and try selling the GP2X. Does it sell. No!

 

[Khatoblepas]

Well, from what I've read, GPH shouldn't be lambasted, or strung up. They're simply naive and probably new at doing things on their own. I've seen posts claiming that GPH is three people (Anna Hong (the admin and customer support), and two mysterious individuals). And yet there are things that say "All but one hardware engineer split from Gamepark to create an open source console." They had very little budget (thus couldn't produce propriatory hardware like The Big Guys could) and not much experience, so why try and make them feel rejected for something they made? Jesus, people, they're TRYING.

And yet, GPH are still quite clueless as to what they're doing, business and software wise. The firmware isn't handled by them, but by Digisys, said in this thread, but what about the GUI programs? They might be handled by GPH. But think about it. Very small company, probably working on the programs, business, AND packing boxes (o.o). AND they probably don't understand the GPL properly. Maybe they read "release source code if you use it in your programs", but didn't realise you had to release it concurrently?

Give them a break. Would you prefer them to get into mafia deals like Gizmondo (squandering!), or have major homebrew-blocking firmware like Sony? So far, Gamepark have been the most receptive company for homebrew. They direct customer questions to the forums, because we know more than them about the problems. Any question you can ask them has probably already been answered here. And with one person manning the phones and email, usually, wouldn't you prefer the forums? Besides, we always need more potential devs, don't we?

I think that the GP2x's major upside is that pretty much every game on it is free. When I'm playing it at school, and people say: "What does it play?" "Games I download. They're all free, you know.". They're suitably impressed. A console that's powerful, and has many features in it they don't tell you about (USB Host from EXT, anyone?), is a wonderland I love. It's an interesting console. It has quirks. It has faults that the community tries to solve, but most of all we have FUN doing it, don't we? Isn't that what it's all about? Besides, you try finding something as obscure and functional as the ol' gamepark. The other PMPs look awful =( And the PSP is expensive and draconian. At least GPH isn't trying to drain our pockets, aye?

Besides, if GPH gets money out of the GP2x, they might certainly hire more staff. More staff means more support and better features! Even if they are what Gamepark are quite dissallusionally thinking as the unit's sole purpose (movies, photos, mp3 and ebook =P). I bet they think that they just made an open PMP device people can make games on if they want. Emulators are just an added bonus! Yes, they could get our help and become one with the homebrew scene. But is it just early days yet?

You used to love Gamepark! GPH is smaller, they don't have game programmers, they don't have advertising execs, and if you try and cry mutiny at them they won't have you, either. Just because they are a little delayed in releasing their source code (they might be waiting until it actually works perfectly before they do! Who wants dodgy code that they could fix? =P), doesn't mean they're going to steal all your code and claim it as their own. I haven't seen any proof of actual theft from GPH yet. Please prove me wrong or something. This post is waaaaaaaay too long. I ramble too much =x

 

[Ravnos]

The naivety excuse doesn't quite cut it when they already went through this once back in November. People were patient then because the hardware was just released and they had a ton of bugs to work out and a lot of demand to meet. Here we are a couple of months later and people's patience is running out. They can't get by on "we're a small company!" forever, because the work they're distributing is by even smaller "little guys" who released their work under FOSS licenses for the good of everyone. It's not right for them to violate that license and spit on those devs. If they're willing to spit on those devs, how long until they spit on the ones here?

 

[judge0]

actually now that i think of it in this perspective, don't ask me why i didn't think of it before, i'm probably not going to buy a Gp2x. Your absolutely right. Its the developers here that are making GPH their money not GPH themselves, as far as i know they haven't marketed this thing in anyway shape or form and are just sitting back and letting the money come in from word of mouth from sites like this and the hard work of all the developers, doesn't seem right to me, but maybe, hopefully i'm wrong.

I have been thinking the same thing really - I am going to hold out for the handheld mr. Mirko is making unless GPH really gets their act together, as they are only holding back the GP2X's success and it is not responsible behaviour from a company that is trying to sell this type of product.
The sad thing is that they probably do not realise that people feel this way, and I doubt they would listen unless they had a couple of hundred people tell it to their face.

As far as i know, i don't think GPH has any intention on releasing anything commercial for the GP2X.

Well that isn't really true, they do have commercial plans for the GP2X - but even this I dislike, I get the feeling that actually GPH never had plans to make this a opensource handheld or dev handheld, and that really they just used that message to get people interested, with hidden motives.

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I think GPH are more suited to management than production or development.
Their hardware was designed for them from ARM, Magiceyes, DiginSys etc.
Their software was provided by the linux community, tweaked by MagicEyes and DiginSys, and Beta testing by ourselves.
The hardware was assembled by third party contractors.
Their support system evidently only applies to the Korean consumers, as evidenced by the joke of an English website where any wanna-be hacker can post as 'admin'.
(BTW, Jan 6th was the date they had posted as to synchronizing the Korean website with the English one.)
When asked to release source code for their supposedly 'Open-Source' system, they released crippled and incomplete code reluctantly.
Quality control and distribution tasks they managed to shuffle off to Craigix, ED and the other distributors. They also got the short end of the stick in having to handle complaints, returns etc.
As for what GPH did do, well they introduced us to Anna Hong.
Pretty astute business people, our GPH crew are. They used our preorder money to finance their startup, and used thrid parties in EVERY area of production. What I'd like to know is what is it they are so busy doing that they have no time to do what they should be doing?
I'm not even going to mention the mythic 'SDK' that supposedly would accompany every unit. The only reason there is any semblance of a GPH supplied SDK available, is that it was leaked. No wonder rlyeh phrases his minimal lib licensing the way he does.

I too have regrets I didn't throw my support to a community member like MrMirko and Project Ninja. Any of the slack we're now cutting for GPH would be more deserved by MrMirko. And more understandable.

As for any accesories for this system (GP2X), or 'second generation' GP2X , GPH won't see a nickel from me. I'll get any accessories from nigelibrown, or do without.
I've wasted enough money on these jokers as it is. Don't get me wrong, this community is one of the turning points in my decision to get the GP2X in the first place. I just wish there was a way we could prevent GPH from using our devs hard work to promote their product.

And that was todays rant...

 

[thebohemian]

Hi.
Everybuddy who is upset about about GPH: Please calm down. Really, please put your energies to something more useful.

I am sure no one of us has ever designed and produced a handheld and developed the operating software for it. If GPH really has only 3 developers than this it is clear to me that they are coding like mad to get some features done and have no time to react on what the small community of pre-release buyers does.

We got the source code for the kernel: Fine. Now let us bring our creative ideas together and develop the thing in a way we want it to behave. If GPH ever finds that stuff useful they can have it under the terms of the respective FOSS license (whatever a developer might chose). If they ever realize how cool it would be to work together with the FOSS community: Fine, let them do so.

Some days ago I played around with OpenEmbedded and now I am able to customize my GP2X vastly. There is one piece missing I cannot customize currently and that is the kernel! If we can integrate the GP2X' kernel into the OE build system we pretty much have everything for what is called a GNU/Linux distribution. Wouldnt that be cool?

 

[PSyMastR]

Maybe a concerted campaign would help.

What if every one put a "Shame GPH" splash screen in their software. That way all software being made would be like a virtual petition. You wouldn't be able to run all the freely developed software without a reminder that GPH is dragging the chain.

I'd suggest a standard splash screen that was instantly recognisable.

Hey, the software is created by indie devs, they can do with it what they want!

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[Gruntfuggly]

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you - if Gampark had never created the GP32, none of what is happening now would be happening at all! I'm not suggesting they created it out of generosity or by any sort of grand plan - in fact I think it was more of a fluke that they made it open for developers and lots of people started developing apps for it. Nobody forced them to develop anything for it! At the end of the day, we've got a platform that developers can create stuff for easily in the same way as home computers a few years ago. The beauty is that we've now also got the internet to make distribution much easier - imagine if the net had been around back in the days of C64, BBC Micro, Spectrum, etc...

GPH are never going to make a fortune out of the system - hopefully they'll make enough to allow them to at least develop the next system...

A few months ago there were a lot of people on here putting together a plan for their own system - it seemed promising and actually feasible, but as you'd expect it fizzled out. As far as I see it, GPH have simply achieved the same thing, but managed to get it out of the door too...

 

[BBTroll]

Gruntfuggly: wtf? "Talk about biting the hand that feeds you".

Since when is a company that YOU PAY MONEY TO, "the hand that feeds you"?

WE FEED THEM, don't get the order mixed.

 

[Hanz™]

A few months ago there were a lot of people on here putting together a plan for their own system - it seemed promising and actually feasible, but as you'd expect it fizzled out. As far as I see it, GPH have simply achieved the same thing, but managed to get it out of the door too...

Mr. Mirko is still working on the Ninja.

 

[Squidge]

Think of it this way:

People want a small handheld device for playing homebrew and emulation of old consoles. What choice is there out there for this task?

If we ignore the ones that are not really suitable for game playing or emulation (ie, poor controls, lack of memory, inability to run unsigned software, etc) then this basically leaves us with the GP32, GP2X, PSP, DS & GBA.

We need as much power as possible for emulation tasks, so we can get this list down to the GP2X & PSP, although the GP32 is also a good contender.

It's obvious Sony don't want us doing homebrew on the PSP, so this leaves the most powerful console being the GP2X.

Love GPH, or hate GPH, I don't see any other options available to us?

 

[Hanz™]

Love GPH, or hate GPH, I don't see any other options available to us?

I agree. But they should co-operate with the devs since the main selling point of the handheld is the devs work.

 

[Muncher666]

I personally feel that getting upset at a company that released a console that only technically was officially released this week is getting a little impatient. Can't we wait until the poor little box is 6 months old before sending waves of hate towards a company which may (with or without their support) be the savior of the open source handheld community?

Allan.

 

[Radek]

I personally feel that getting upset at a company that released a console that only technically was officially released this week is getting a little impatient. Can't we wait until the poor little box is 6 months old before sending waves of hate towards a company which may (with or without their support) be the savior of the open source handheld community?

Allan.

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I think no one is hating the GPH here and I must admit that I'm very impressed by gp2x's concept. But no so by execution... Yeah I know that this is small company and bugs aren't nothing unexpected. Yet look for an example of latest bogus firmware (1.2.0) - the new kernel broke compatibility with many SD cards... This isn't uncommon to software having bugs but some (even quick) testing should prevent this. If the gp2x has to be so dependant on 3rd parties and community developers then GPH should let do it that way completely.

After all sales of hardware is main source of income for GPH.

Another thought...

The gp2x is basically a MagicEyes's MMSP2 chipset (plus 64MB sdram), right?

The rest are just peripherals so... MMSP2 is common part, sdram of course too. It should not be too costly or difficult to build another machine based on MMSP2. I'd like to have a very small desktop computer running Linux with TV-out, VGA out, audio out and usb host/slave connectivity. With 128 (or even 256) MB of ram it should be enough for my typical tasks like text editing using Vim, some programing with Python/C, some games (I'm already tired of 3d being pushed everywhere) and media playing.

With 15 lcd monitor it could be even smaller than a notebook and... it could be even built in a monitor itself!

 

[davey g]

Love GPH, or hate GPH, I don't see any other options available to us?

I agree. But they should co-operate with the devs since the main selling point of the handheld is the devs work.

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The main selling point is the ability to play/use the devs work which is what GPH are providing.

Edit: Do you want to use a Sega Megadrive emulator to play Megadrive games or do you want to use a Sega Megadrive emulator to play Megadrive games on a portable handheld?

 

[Hanz™]

Love GPH, or hate GPH, I don't see any other options available to us?

I agree. But they should co-operate with the devs since the main selling point of the handheld is the devs work.

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The main selling point is the ability to play/use the devs work which is what GPH are providing.

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So you disagree that they should co-operate with the developers of the system (in order that it better achieves this)?

Edit: Do you want to use a Sega Megadrive emulator to play Megadrive games or do you want to use a Sega Megadrive emulator to play Megadrive games on a portable handheld?

On a handheld obviously, but there are many other handhelds that can do this. And ultimately they should aim to be the best of all of these handhelds for this purpose (especially as they mention it on their site).

 

[davey g]

How does what I have said even contradict that? Or even refer to that argument at all? What I was saying is that the devs work is not the main selling point but the ability to use the devs work on a portable handheld is and thus there is no reason GPH shouldn't be making a profit.

 

[Flexinoodle]

If another open handheld comes along that is actually open and not just pretending to be open i think GPH are in big big trouble, I won't be buying into this if they don't pull there finger out and fully support the licence of the GPL.

 

[Radek]

If another open handheld comes along that is actually open and not just pretending to

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But it will?

There is a reason why only such outsider like GPH is offering something like the gp2x.

The open software is great concept but most people just want a dumbed down devices - turn on and play. Look at the how many gp32 were sold - 30000 units. The gp2x should sell significantly more but still... milions of units aren't realistic. So I'm afraid that there is place only for one company fulfiling niche of open handheld.