Quite a bit for you to read!

[Eight Bit]

I like the fact that with all storage media removed, my Pandora is still a fully functioning computer. I think the Pyra should be like that too. To me it feels more fail safe somehow, like the heart of the machine... Not having an OS integrated with the machine would make the Pyra feel more like a raspberry pi which, has no real own identity on the software or OS side.
The option to boot another OS from SD1, or from USB is good enough for me. I don't think I want to cripple (at least it feels like crippling) my device to have an extra removable storage media device under the battery I won't ever use as such, especially since it would be slower in actual speed and more cumbersome than just using SD1 because you'd have to open your unit up and remove the battery to change it.
On my Pandora I hardly ever had to use more than two storage media types at the same time, with USB storage added to the 2 SD slots it has always been more than sufficient.

 

[Calculus]

It's on the CPU board, so it could be replace relative easy but the CPU board (which I would prefer calling SoC board tbh) also contains the SoC (Sytem on a chip, so GPU and CPU) and the Ram, meaning you have to replace those too. Which makes it more expensive.

So, for me, that's a no.

I'm against sacrificing any of the microSD card's performance for the eMMC.

 

[WizardStan]

In this special case the delay is problematic because it makes the data signals asynchronous, half of the data signals arrive slightly earlier than even the clock signal. It simply makes the whole connection less reliable.

OH, now I've got it. Only half the eMMC data lines are going through the MUX. Now it makes sense. Thanks.

 

[PowerGod]

I like the fact that with all storage media removed, my Pandora is still a fully functioning computer.

One day one of my Pandora died, and I was unable to get what was saved on the internal NAND... luckily most of the data was saved on the SDs because how PND worked...

With the Pyra, could be so simple to install/use everything on the internal memory and then lose everything in one hit... but a micro-SD could be still extracted and read by another device... it could also be copied 1:1 to have a backup of the entire OS...

 

[Eight Bit]

One day one of my Pandora died, and I was unable to get what was saved on the internal NAND... luckily most of the data was saved on the SDs because how PND worked...

With the Pyra, could be so simple to install/use everything on the internal memory and then lose everything in one hit... but a micro-SD could be still extracted and read by another device... it could also be copied 1:1 to have a backup of the entire OS...

When my Pandora died I had worse concerns than what was on my nand, My Pandora died!
Anyway, I wouldn't put personal files on nand in the first place, I can reflash my Pandora any day... Nothing not recoverable by a couple of downloads.
And yes, Hail PND, a great system
I get it can have it's uses, just not for me apparently, or not at that cost...

 

[sepulep]

great stuff! thanks...

now, my opinion about the eMMC situation: I think the goal should be maximum reliability, especially for storage, so in that sense I don't like the "let see how fast this mux thing is" approach
I remember the Openmoko phone, which had issues with a shared channel between the video and SD card. it caused garbled SD cards every so often...not nice

 

[AnimatedFreak]

For me the eMMC issue isn't an issue as I am part of the second batch and I assume that it will be fixed by the time I get mine. However if I was part of the first batch I would want it fixed, and if not at least give people who are part of the first batch a discount on upgrading it later. Of course that means if it can't be fixed on the current boards and new boards would have to be produced and that would push the release up forward

 

[klapse]

How about a poll to survey how people feel about the SD/emmc speed thing, and whether the current CPU boards are acceptable?

 

[Kippykip]

How about a poll to survey how people feel about the SD/emmc speed thing, and whether the current CPU boards are acceptable?

Sounds like a good idea, I'd still like to see a speed comparison though

 

[ClockworkCoder]

Sounds like a good idea, I'd still like to see a speed comparison though

Yeah, certainly need more concrete info to make informed decisions at this stage. Not everyone understands the technical and practical implications.

 

[Swordfish II]

I have been reading stuff here for a while, and up until now I was content simply observing.

Is the eMMC easily replacable?

No, and even still you would not avoid this problem by doing that.

 

[Willhelm]

hmm I plan to use the uSD anyway so that a slowed down eMMC would not harm me. cant wait anymore

 

[AnimatedFreak]

considering it will be over 500 people effected, if there is going to be a poll about it maybe notification those who are effected via email about the poll would be a good thing.

 

[Eight Bit]

Is eMMC more reliable than µSD? Which is prone to break sooner?

 

[TrashyMG]

Is eMMC more reliable than µSD? Which is prone to break sooner?

well a Micro SD card can be replaced, but the socket could potentially break with enough use. But that's not the point the best µSD at best is half the speed of the eMMC. using the OMAP5 EVM for several years and knowing disk IO can be a bottleneck in some applications I personally would like having the faster choice.

 

[klapse]

I been using 30-50MB/s hard drives for all my life and will be happy to deal with those speeds.

 

[TrashyMG]

I been using 30-50MB/s hard drives for all my life and will be happy to deal with those speeds.

Well I'm using 5MB/s drive speeds in my Amiga and I'm happy with it, but doesn't mean I want it in my Pyra...

 

[Grench]

I just thought up a solution for these 570 boards that is either genius or just plain stupid.

Leave off the eMMC. Lock the MUX to only go to the microSDXC or hardwire the pins.

Sell them as microSD only systems at a discount equal or slightly more than the savings of leaving off the eMMC. How much discount would be appropriate?

To my understanding, the rest of the hardware is good to go, right? They work fine on microSD, right?

Alternatively, leave off the eMMC and include a signed SoC board key chain, a coffee mug, and a special edition, "Pyra Limited Edition No Nand Needed" T-shirt and keep the price. That means each of these orders consumes (and pays for) 2 SoC boards AND by this method only 1/2 of these SoC boards has to be populated AND those that are won't be populated with a part that won't work right AND there won't have to be a support fork to support this MUXed up hardware set.

Genius or stupid?

 

[TrashyMG]

@Grench as someone number 4 in the normal pre-order and someone that wants the speed of the eMMC I'd rather have the uSD disabled. But there is always someone that wants something different. I'd rather see the issue fixed from the start.

Also a bit of zmatt's work is still checking if the hardware is 100% ready to go... so there still may be some extra surprises found.

 

[Kippykip]

I don't mind @klapse 's idea of charging slightly more for the final pyra price, but only as a last ditch effort. I'd like to see a practical speed chart first to see if it's anything too major to worry about in the first place.