Quite a bit for you to read!

[WizardStan]

Clearly then the Pyra should be using the same crappy eMMC as the dev board as it would not have been fast enough to get throtled.

Ironically that would've been better than all the "it doesn't matter because it's fast enough" comments, I think. It's two completely different things to not have something to begin with than to potentially have something arguably taken away, even if it ends up being the same in the end.

 

[TrashyMG]

The crappy eMMC on the EVM is only 2GB...

 

[Kippykip]

The crappy eMMC on the EVM is only 2GB...

How would Debian itself even fit on that?

 

[TrashyMG]

How would Debian itself even fit on that?

it would be tight, but a light install should fit. It would put us in a similar Pandora situation as that only has 512MB storage. I'm currently not using the eMMC on my devboard outside storing files I may need if I use a different OS SD card or upgrade.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

I know how to make people stop worrying about this issue....

..should we look at a different keyboard layout?
....and maybe the button order could change?
......finally perhaps we should put Greek symbols on the buttons?

That should distract everyone from the issues at hand.

 

[Razy]

......finally perhaps we should put Greek symbols on the buttons?

This Greek Geek agrees.

 

[Kippykip]

I know how to make people stop worrying about this issue....

..should we look at a different keyboard layout?
....and maybe the button order could change?
......finally perhaps we should put Greek symbols on the buttons?

That should distract everyone from the issues at hand.

Why Greek?

 

[TrashyMG]

Why Greek?

Because of the Greek mythology behind the Pyra(Pyrrha) name... you had to have been there back when the keyboard layout "discussion" was going on.

 

[Kippykip]

Because of the Greek mythology behind the Pyra(Pyrrha) name... you had to have been there back when the keyboard layout "discussion" was going on.

Actually is someone able to give me a bit of a "storytime" and fill me in about these disastrous Keyboard threads I keep hearing about?
I believe I missed the entire thing

 

[Eight Bit]

I kinda liked all the keyboard discussions and happily participated in those

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Actually is someone able to give me a bit of a "storytime" and fill me in about these disastrous Keyboard threads I keep hearing about?
I believe I missed the entire thing

Start here:

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/search/596891/?q=greek&o=relevance&c[user][0]=60267
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/search/596903/?q=layout&o=relevance&c[user][0]=60267

Those threads were not really disastrous, I think that even most of the opponents of those threads would agree today that they have made the keyboard all the better. It's just that there was A LOT of discussion about it at the time, and apparently, the pure amount of lengthy keyboard threads after lengthy keyboard threads drove some of the bystanders insane (the others just sweared and cursed).

Edit: At least the keyboard threads have been profound enough of a historic event that they keep being mentioned in modern Pyra lore even today. Even if perhaps not disastrous, the effect was long-lasting after all!

 

[Kippykip]

Start here:

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/search/596891/?q=greek&o=relevance&c[user][0]=60267
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/search/596903/?q=layout&o=relevance&c[user][0]=60267

Those threads were not really disastrous, I think that even most of the opponents of those threads would agree today that they have made the keyboard all the better. It's just that there was A LOT of discussion about it at the time, and apparently, the pure amount of lengthy keyboard threads after lengthy keyboard threads drove some of the bystanders insane (the others just sweared and cursed).

Edit: At least the keyboard threads have been profound enough of a historic event that they keep being mentioned in modern Pyra lore even today. Even if perhaps not disastrous, the effect was long-lasting after all!

One thing I will say is I have no idea how you would switch it to controller mode and computer mode.

 

[Klumpen]

Do meek Greek geeks reek of leek?

 

[Grench]

Ironically that would've been better than all the "it doesn't matter because it's fast enough" comments, I think. It's two completely different things to not have something to begin with than to potentially have something arguably taken away, even if it ends up being the same in the end.

However, it was not something taken away. It was something added. In one single dimension, sequential reads, that something is theoretically capable of performing even better than the system it is plugged into. The project doesn't loose that small portion of that one less relevant sequential read specification - because that did not exist on the old 4GB part. It gained a huge bump up in capacity, random reads and random writes.

Glass half empty.
Glass half full.
Glass has twice the capacity required.

The eMMC not being able to top out it's bus speed is more like, "Glass has twice the capacity required."
The original 4GB eMMC would be a case where, "The glass is overflowing but doing it's damn best to keep up."

The 32GB eMMC is an upgrade. Removing the uSD to squeeze even more upgrade out of the already upgraded eMMC would be a rather serious downgrade at this point. Removing the uSD would effectively strip 256GB off the device's internal storage capability.

The crappy eMMC on the EVM is only 2GB...

If I recall right it is also a very slow Kingston part. 20-40MB/sec sequential read speed or something in that range.

 

[0x14f]

been thinking of this for a few years now.... but would there be enough demand here?
If i won Lotto i def would approach ED about at least a bulk order if not an actual dealership.....

I'm clueless about how import, marketing, and retail work in aus, need someone with experience. I only know that the marketing part is vastly different from the rest of the world - ad agencies here get away with the wackiest stuff.

 

[Grench]

One thing I will say is I have no idea how you would switch it to controller mode and computer mode.

Do you mean between nubs as joysticks and nubs as mouse?

With the Pandora that was handled through launch scripts in the .pnd file and a safe-return script on the OS side. It worked VERY well.

On the Pyra, it could be done the same way (for programs directly set up for the Pyra) and/or via scripts. Personally I plan to learn what that script is and set up a scripted keyboard shortcut pair to flip it one way to the other and back. Maybe tie it to Super+j for joystick mode and Super+m for mouse mode.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

"We should do anything but rush it"

Rush? Ed has spent lots of time going through many iterations of everything already. The last thing I want to see is to have the Pyra in development for as long as the Pandora. By then I bet lots of people will pull out including myself due to long waiting time and loss of interest which I am starting to...

 

[Kippykip]

Do you mean between nubs as joysticks and nubs as mouse?

With the Pandora that was handled through launch scripts in the .pnd file and a safe-return script on the OS side. It worked VERY well.

On the Pyra, it could be done the same way (for programs directly set up for the Pyra) and/or via scripts. Personally I plan to learn what that script is and set up a scripted keyboard shortcut pair to flip it one way to the other and back. Maybe tie it to Super+j for joystick mode and Super+m for mouse mode.

Well the main thing I'm wondering about is the L2 button, as it's the FN key. Would programs themselves even recognise it?
The other thing is that some games and applications like Doom handle LCtrl/LShift and RCtrl/RShift as the same keys (R1/R2, Start Select).
But in the end it's open source so we can figure it out hopefully.

 

[Grench]

Well the main thing I'm wondering about is the L2 button, as it's the FN key. Would programs themselves even recognise it?
The other thing is that some games and applications like Doom handle LCtrl/LShift and RCtrl/RShift as the same keys (R1/R2, Start Select).
But in the end it's open source so we can figure it out hopefully.

Most of that comes from experience with the Pandora where the 2 shoulders were shift and control. It played Doom quite nicely.

The Pyra has shift, ctrl, Fn and Alt on the shoulders AND on the main keyboard area (left/right versions of the 4 = 8 buttons). @_wb_ got that a lot of the shoulder button mapping needs figured out in principle in the keyboard threads - even how to incorporate the mouse clicks into them if someone wanted.

Being able to access modifier keys on the shoulders is a huge benefit when thumb typing and using the OS. From what I have seen with the Pandora, it isn't a big leap to have a script run prior to games to flip them to joystick buttons then back after.

 

[levi]

Yeah, but the FN button behaves differently to Shift, Ctrl and Alt on most laptops. That's because they're emulating a full-sized keyboard at a fairly low level. On the Pyra I believe this will all be handled somehow using software, but it may still be hard to make it a fully detectable key as well as a special modifier. As long as Nikolaus hasn't wired it up not as a full key, it should end up being down to what AtC and his crew can do with it.