Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[borgqueenx]

dont all pick craig now, take a look in the past and see what he has done for us.

we are all fucking humans and can be a dick sometimes.

I also posted some stopid noob questions in the past and sometimes i still do, and people also get bugged by me.

 

[VRAndy]

Imagine he decided to copyright his code, after we have shipped the 4000 units.

Wouldn't it be too late at that point? Once you've recieved the code under a license, that license can't be pulled out from under you.

He can release it AGAIN under any license he pleases, but that doesn't change the status of the copies you've already got.

 

[Poem58]

I guess that they will copy and paste a standard warranty policy. If they include the overclocking function in the OS, which they do afaik, one could most likely refute a non-overclocking clause. So as a whole I don't see a problem and also I don't expect the CPU to fail.

edit:
@Poem58
I haven't taken offense at all and respect you for your honesty, which is rather rare these days

I think the issue is that he was saying that not everyone would say something if they broke it themselves.
The thing is, that 99% would. As bankrupting the business would only serve to dead end our product far before it's time.

Mali (not a native English speaker), edited his post to clarify what he meant.

Craig, upset at what he interpreted, went off.

What's truly unsettling here is the lack of ability to apologize.

The official information says 600+ so what was the "+" if not overclocking? 601 is 600+1 which equals overclocking.
It would be hard now to rescind the information after the purchase now. They should just say "within reason" on overclocking. It was stated you could not overvolt in software, so no serious damage should occur, right?
So really, what's to worry about? Arm CPU's seem terrifically designed and I'm sure if an actual overclock is the culprit that only a bad CPU would fail in a short time.
If you eliminate overclocking altogether, then the dev's will be forced never to do so, else they be promoting overclocking.

I just don't understand how this got so out of hand we actually lost a dev, that should have never happened.

Why are people so afraid to say, "Sorry"? or admit overreaction? I'm actually afraid now that I might accidentally say something that gets my order canceled.

I think right now that that is what this thread has ultimately ended up doing. But at least this matter will be discussed by OP. Once a final decision is made, then people will haev to decide if that is OK with them.

I really never thought much about overclocking, always been afraid myself so I never had, but I was expecting that with this device, on certain programs, I would probably end up trying it.
I guess not now. that takes a little bit of the fun away, but not much I guess.

this really is a good place to just let this die, and we can deal with it once an official determination has been made.

Sorry to see you go Vimacs, sorry it had to end this way. Thank you for all that you've done. it will be appreciated and your work will not be forgotten.

On a positive note it appears Sandisk is selling (or will be shortly) a 64G SDXC card for $350 USD, an independently wealthy people interested in picking one up to test? Yeah, I guess not

 

[atiti]

Man,

this thread grew 3 pages while i was reading it.... insane...

 

[aq21]

Ok, so how about we have a built in overclocking utility that lets you select the speed you want (and OPP level), but if put either outside of spec, it pops up a warning box notifying you that doing so will void your warranty (and of course will log the overclocking request to some super secret flash built into the omap so any repair requests can tell that the device has been overclocked...)

OK?

Not going to work. If overclocking causes real damage, it will probably be to the OMAP, so how are you going to read the super secret flash? You could open the OMAP and physically and examine the flash, but that is probably going to be more expensive than actually replacing all OMAPs in all Pandoras.

 

[borgqueenx]

I want some good news from the chinese company. Is everything fine? Let's just wait for the official statement about this subject, all right?

yes im also in need of some good news from that factory.

 

[WizardStan]

dont all pick craig now, take a look in the past and see what he has done for us.

we are all fucking humans and can be a dick sometimes.

This isn't just "sometimes" though, and that's the point. Craig was warned several times that his abrasive way of dealing with customers was going to come back and bite him one of these days, and now it has, and his last response about vimacs suggests he still doesn't fully understand what just happened. He's a human who made a mistake, but humans also need to be held accountable for their mistakes and learn from them.

 

[Consequence_9]

Its very sad that it had to come to this, this was a very interesting project for the last 3 years.
I enjoyed helping out and working with really nice people, unfortunately you as self proclaimed project leader arent on of them.
You craigix, have been quite aggressive to customers on the board for some time now, that is not the way you keep a community happy and motivate people to work for _FREE_ on the project.
Also if i remember right you still own some gbax compo prices to some devs.

I'm sad that this went down this way
I'm sad the people like mw faith and ed will suffer for your arrogance.
I hope that those people who stayed loyal to this afford will get the money they invested back.
I hope that the devs who spent lots of time on this will some day get some reward for this.
I'm sad that i have to leave this project now as i just cant justify spending my own short time and therefore money anymore knowing that in the end it will benefit a person like you.

A few minutes ago i canceled my order with ed and gave ownership of my code to Skeezix, he is free to do whatever he wants with it and license it under his terms.

Bye guys, it was fun while it lasted, i hope some day you all get the device you dreamed of.

I'm very sorry you feel like this, it was not my intention to upset you in any way.

well a fucking crap job you did of it.

The word is respect, Craig.

I'm totally at a loss here, how did I disrespect Vimacs?

First in a more general sense by what went on in this thread, and then by completely blowing him off. You realize that what you call a threat was actually just CONSIDERING to pull out something he supplied completely free of charge to the community. He asked you respect your customers more, you replied by wanting to cancel his preorder. Are you really surprised this is how it went down?

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. Just what were your intentions craig?

I find it hard to believe that you are really at a loss. You made the mistake of over-reacting, as we all do at one point or another, but to me it's quite obvious that you're in the wrong here, and you really need to come clean if you want to save any remaining face. That is not to say you are entirely to blame; vimacs over-reacted as well, but two wrongs etc. Mali is a deservedly well respected member of the community here & even if what he suggested was out of line it certainly didn't merit that kind of response from you. Same goes for Vimacs. He's put a lot of hard work into something for nothing & it doesn't sound like he was asking all that much in return. He probably feels that after putting in so many man hours he deserves a little more respect than 'what's your order number?', and hell, he does. I think this situation merits an official sort of comment much more so than the overclocking issue.

dont all pick craig now, take a look in the past and see what he has done for us.

we are all fucking humans and can be a dick sometimes.

I also posted some stopid noob questions in the past and sometimes i still do, and people also get bugged by me.

this may be true, however he has yet to even recognize the fact that he went a bit too far & is still digging himself deeper. Yes, we can all be a dick or a noob sometimes, but last I recall your actions didn't cost the community one of the main (software side) project devs.

 

[Jumpman]

Like I said, I never overclock, it just seems to make most things unstable! So Yeah, that was never a selling point for me! For a lot, it was! I don't think it would have been an issue, if it hadn't become the issue!

Now the team needs to address it in some way, shape or form! I hope they leave it the way it was, and just appeal to peoples better judgement, and only send your unit in for true manufactures defects! Not BS! This was a open device afterall, right?

Just a thought!


Chris

 

[Poem58]

Ok, so how about we have a built in overclocking utility that lets you select the speed you want (and OPP level), but if put either outside of spec, it pops up a warning box notifying you that doing so will void your warranty (and of course will log the overclocking request to some super secret flash built into the omap so any repair requests can tell that the device has been overclocked...)

OK?

Not going to work. If overclocking causes real damage, it will probably be to the OMAP, so how are you going to read the super secret flash? You could open the OMAP and physically and examine the flash, but that is probably going to be more expensive than actually replacing all OMAPs in all Pandoras.

the could set it up like V-GER from Star Trek: The Motion Picture and have the Pandora fry something noticable inside then they can open it up and go "Ah, stupid overclocker"

Seriously though, maybe have it make some kind of log file on the SD card when overclock settings are used, something normal users couldn't read? Have the OS create on on insertion so everyone has one period. When you send in your Pandora for warranty service you have to email them the file for warranty consideration? it would show the last change you made if any?
Just an idea, but is it really a problem? the way it's been discussed over the last year and a half it would appear they should have had at least one die by now if it were.

 

[Consequence_9]

enough! can we have our pandoras now?

lmfao, great find!

@ Gruso, AtomicThumbs or Butterman - I expect to see this picture on the unofficial blog when our pandoras start shipping

EDIT: HAIL SATAN AS WE ARE THE BLACK LEGIONSfinally up to post 666 ;]

 

[WizardStan]

this may be true, however he has yet to even recognize the fact that he went a bit too far & is still digging himself deeper. Yes, we can all be a dick or a noob sometimes, but last I recall your actions didn't cost the community one of the main (software side) project devs.

Mali isn't totally innocent in this either. He did admit to not being entirely honest in the past, and that it might happen again. Given the openness of the project (both the blessing and the curse of it), in my opinion (and many others, Craig included) this is a disrespectful thing to say. Craig may have overreacted, but it wasn't like it was entirely unprovoked. Some response was definitely warranted, I hope you'll agree. Just how big of a response depends on the amount of diplomacy that everyone has. Which is apparently "none" based on this thread

 

[Jumpman]

Its very sad that it had to come to this, this was a very interesting project for the last 3 years.
I enjoyed helping out and working with really nice people, unfortunately you as self proclaimed project leader arent on of them.
You craigix, have been quite aggressive to customers on the board for some time now, that is not the way you keep a community happy and motivate people to work for _FREE_ on the project.
Also if i remember right you still own some gbax compo prices to some devs.

I'm sad that this went down this way
I'm sad the people like mw faith and ed will suffer for your arrogance.
I hope that those people who stayed loyal to this afford will get the money they invested back.
I hope that the devs who spent lots of time on this will some day get some reward for this.
I'm sad that i have to leave this project now as i just cant justify spending my own short time and therefore money anymore knowing that in the end it will benefit a person like you.

A few minutes ago i canceled my order with ed and gave ownership of my code to Skeezix, he is free to do whatever he wants with it and license it under his terms.

Bye guys, it was fun while it lasted, i hope some day you all get the device you dreamed of.

I'm very sorry you feel like this, it was not my intention to upset you in any way.

well a fucking crap job you did of it.

The word is respect, Craig.

I'm totally at a loss here, how did I disrespect Vimacs?

First in a more general sense by what went on in this thread, and then by completely blowing him off. You realize that what you call a threat was actually just CONSIDERING to pull out something he supplied completely free of charge to the community. He asked you respect your customers more, you replied by wanting to cancel his preorder. Are you really surprised this is how it went down?

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. Just what were your intentions craig?

I find it hard to believe that you are really at a loss. You made the mistake of over-reacting, as we all do at one point or another, but to me it's quite obvious that you're in the wrong here, and you really need to come clean if you want to save any remaining face. That is not to say you are entirely to blame; vimacs over-reacted as well, but two wrongs etc. Mali is a deservedly well respected member of the community here & even if what he suggested was out of line it certainly didn't merit that kind of response from you. Same goes for Vimacs. He's put a lot of hard work into something for nothing & it doesn't sound like he was asking all that much in return. He probably feels that after putting in so many man hours he deserves a little more respect than 'what's your order number?', and hell, he does. I think this situation merits an official sort of comment much more so than the overclocking issue.

dont all pick craig now, take a look in the past and see what he has done for us.

we are all fucking humans and can be a dick sometimes.

I also posted some stopid noob questions in the past and sometimes i still do, and people also get bugged by me.

this may be true, however he has yet to even recognize the fact that he went a bit too far & is still digging himself deeper. Yes, we can all be a dick or a noob sometimes, but last I recall your actions didn't cost the community one of the main (software side) project devs.

Well said Consequence_9, well said! andora2ut4: PANDORA FOREVER!


Chris

 

[VRAndy]

You realize that what you call a threat was actually just CONSIDERING to pull out something he supplied completely free of charge to the community.

Bullshit. I don't want to defend Craigix. He can do that himself, but It drives me crazy when people don't look back at posts before they talk about them. This is the internet! It's so easy to review past posts before you post your own.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

IF You [Do Something] I will [Do something that hurts you].
If you [Do something else] I will think about [Doing something that hurts you badly].

That's pretty much the definition of a threat. The second one is phrased a little coyly. But that doesn't make it less of a threat. ("Nice place you've got here. It'd be a shame if something were to ... happen to it. ")

It may well be a threat that he has every right to make, but you cannot honestly say that it's not a threat.

 

[GPJosh]

I don't want to fan ANY flames here, as things seem to be finally settling down. Just for those who choose to overclock and *possibly* void their warranty (depending on what the OP team decides) - the Droid's ARM Cortex A8, which is the same base chip that the Pandora uses can OC to over 1ghz, with 800mhz stable. Since many droid users have been doing this already for a while, this might be all be a fuss over nothing.

 

[SNESFAN]

I just want my freaking pandora... if any of you piss him/them off enough to delay this even one additional minute... I swear by zeus I'll come find each and every one of you on here and poop in a paper bag, light it on fire, ring your doorbell and when you answer... punch you in the face

 

[Kyo]

You realize that what you call a threat was actually just CONSIDERING to pull out something he supplied completely free of charge to the community.

Bullshit. I don't want to defend Craigix. He can do that himself, but It drives me crazy when people don't look back at posts before they talk about them. This is the internet! It's so easy to review past posts before you post your own.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

IF You [Do Something] I will [Do something that hurts you].
If you [Do something else] I will think about [Doing something that hurts you badly].

That's pretty much the definition of a threat. The second one is phrased a little coyly. But that doesn't make it less of a thread. ("Nice place you've got here. It'd be a shame if something were to ... happen to it. ")

It may well be a threat that he has every right to make, but you cannot honestly say that it's not a threat.

Fair enough, but I didn't mean to emphasize the CONSIDERING there so much, it came out wrong. My emphasis was meant to be that he was threatening to pull something out that he supplied FOR FREE for craigs pure benefit (though not only craigs benefit). This isn't a case of "be nicer or I'll shoot you" this is "be nicer or I will stop doing nice things for you as well"

 

[Jumpman]

Also guys, let's wait for all the team members to give there opinions! Ed, Michael, Fatih and whomever else is in this project! They deserve to speak there mind, before other members drop support for this project. Craig is a key member, but he is also in partnership with several others, and they shouldn't be condemmed for someone elses actions, before saying there piece first! Right?


Chris

 

[VRAndy]

 

[Poem58]

You realize that what you call a threat was actually just CONSIDERING to pull out something he supplied completely free of charge to the community.

Bullshit. I don't want to defend Craigix. He can do that himself, but It drives me crazy when people don't look back at posts before they talk about them. This is the internet! It's so easy to review past posts before you post your own.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

IF You [Do Something] I will [Do something that hurts you].
If you [Do something else] I will think about [Doing something that hurts you badly].

That's pretty much the definition of a threat. The second one is phrased a little coyly. But that doesn't make it less of a thread. ("Nice place you've got here. It'd be a shame if something were to ... happen to it. ")

It may well be a threat that he has every right to make, but you cannot honestly say that it's not a threat.

Looking at his point of view however, he was working for free to better a product that would make money for the team, in a way he kinda had a right to make the "threat". He was giving of his time and intelligence to help the team make money. If someone from the team were do do something objectionable, he no longer feels is worthy of supporting, he is of no obligation to give to the project.

Give him the credit he deserves, he did go overboard with his threat, then in realizing we would suffer more than Craig, he did the kind thing and made sure the ones he was really working for, us, would not suffer. However, I cannot find fault in him sticking to his convictions.