People are like moths drawn to flames. But wait, let's see if KS will suspend it just before completion.
PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
I don't think you've got nearly enough quotes around that '"'''""''"""good""'''"''"""' there.
comradekingu
Glowing ember
Stage 15
Handheld lies
The PGS can manage to be predictably stupid. That they now have this as a policy seems more telling than anything else.
Handheld lies
The PGS can manage to be predictably stupid. That they now have this as a policy seems more telling than anything else.
Wrath Of Khan
Soul soother...
Did anyone report them to kickstarter?
Gr8one
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I'm sure there have been lots of reports. Kickstarter would have to be monitoring it. I don't back a lot of things that are risky like this or involve large amount of money up front, generally stick to pc games, so I don't know when they usually shut them down. Do they tend to investigate throughout the campaign and bring the hammer down at the end? They also get a piece of the pie so I don't know how enthusiastic they are at shutting down something like PGS.
Have they shut down projects of over 300k yet?
Gr8one
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I know they shutdown the Laser Razor and it was in the millions, not sure when it was shutdown though and they didn't have a prototype if I recall. I think PGS has done just enough to get by KS rules so far with their prototype, although I still don't think this is a fair representation of a prototype. If KS didn't agree it was a prototype they would have shut them down sooner I imagine. If this gets through and when it blows up I imagine KS will revise their definition of prototype. Misrepresentation of team members and false backers are still on the table though, but they might take more time to investigate.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
If you need someone with an American accent to be your voice in your English videos lemme know.
About ICP2 and Craig, I still don't think he was trying to do bad. It seems to me that he made some decisions that came back to bite him in the ass, then he tried to juggle it all, but didn't have the resources to cover everything, then he tried to cut all ties after everything was a pile of ashes. We may still say he made the wrong choices, and a lot of people did get burned by him, but we weren't in the situation. Sure, things could have been handled much better.
I don't think they really compare other than both continued to open cans of worms. If anything, it is like what happened to Craig, but on fast forward, with more deception, and no personal money and business at risk.
Just give PGS 2 Months and we shall see if they can fix this and lead a revolution or whatever it is they want to do. (I wonder how many of the higher paying backers plan to pull their money before the end of the campaign. The figures they currently have are already inflated due to those watching the show, so they may be completely useless.)
almostalive
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I've been following this thread for a good while, having a great laugh at this PGS debacle. Although I'm a bit sad no one has done or suggested what I'm about to.
It would be amazing if someone with a 3d printer would make a PGS prototype and post it on the kickstarter comments. That is possible to do since their prototype is nothing but a 3d printed case and guts from existing stuff, not even put into the case. Just think anyone can have a PGS prototype with a little bit of work, post how you made it and share the files so everyone can have one.
I would love to see their reaction to that. It would be hilarious, but also a waste of money, but still funny.
It would be amazing if someone with a 3d printer would make a PGS prototype and post it on the kickstarter comments. That is possible to do since their prototype is nothing but a 3d printed case and guts from existing stuff, not even put into the case. Just think anyone can have a PGS prototype with a little bit of work, post how you made it and share the files so everyone can have one.
I would love to see their reaction to that. It would be hilarious, but also a waste of money, but still funny.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
The homemade "prototypes" could be far more powerful, too. That proves that it is possible to make a real one.
vcoleiro1
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Yes, but you are forgetting that they are now claiming the actor that was exposed to be playing the part of Alan Williams, is actually on the team - ie they hired him the actor. They stated that he turned out to be a good product designer. ie they could have said what you stated as a defense, but instead they doubled down on crazy after they got exposed. That's not even mentioning the name discrepancies, the hilarious changing roles etc.
They cant even get there lies straight, a week ago Alec said Nadir was in china, then 4 days later he was said to have just come out of his office after spending 3 days looking at fans. Then , a couple of days ago, Nadir himself posted that he just got back from China,. Apparently he is a real "Jumper" and can by the use of thought alone , be in a place 1000's of miles away.
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vcoleiro1
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The Lazer Razer got shut down just days before it was due to end. Ive seen this happen before. It seems to me that KS give campaigns an opportunity to get their shit straight before axing them. (or they are sadists)
And yes, the Lazer Razer did have a prototype. Didn't work great, it only cut a few hairs at a time. But it was at least something real that they developed themselves.
In regards to the rules, PGS clearly broke the rules when they launched with photo realistic renders and kept them up for a few days. Remember , they knew the rules and broke them anyway.
As for now, there is the rule that states they must show an explicit working prototype. Is what they show passable?, well, even though their prototype uses 3rd party products, they didn't even add the sticks in it. ie its not even complete using 3rd party products. Then of course, the question is, are third party products passable as an explicit working prototype. That's up to KS, but honestly I cannot see them passing that.
That would open the door for anything to be posted on KS. I could start a KS to develop and produce a car. And as my explicit working prototype, I could then show a Ford Explorer, take the doors off and put some 3d printed doors on it that I created. That's the equivalent of what PGS have done . Would you say that's passable. I don't think anyone could possibly argue what PGS have done passes as an Explicit working prototype.
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Wrath Of Khan
Soul soother...
Makes me happy Iv'e a pyra pre-ordered.
comradekingu
Glowing ember
To simply say you can do everything in your power to mislead backers and also provide zero evidence to suggest you aren't, would mean a scam is as good as any.
PGS has in addition to this broken rules, repetitively, been caught in lies, and to the knowledgeable and cautious mind paints a very clear narrative. KS needs to do something, otherwise it provides only a platform of unearnt reputation.
I don't know all that much about the razor, but it says 'suspended', rather than 'canceled', which i would imagine be the case for decidedly saying something is a scam. One that ive seen no projects under the status of.
The razor may have been at best slow, but did however make the claim that you could even save time using it, one it could not back up based on its function in current state. A breach of KS rules, which are all very fine, but it doesn't seem they are rigorously employed. It gives opportunity and shows motive, sure, but in the end if some scampaigns can get away, it will lead way to more of the sort.
What the PGS does is to reasonably say something we can assume to function can exist, given by our knowledge of existing technology.
It proves in no way any command of such technology, and simply re-uses variants thereof it to state its claim. Something which does not constitute a prototype. Re-use and promise is not at all what making something is, it may be the start thereof, but not sufficient to offer whats under development as a reward, yet again by KS own rules.
It should also follow that if you posses none of these qualities, no money should be offered. Here the PGS twarts reality by presenting distortion, in the form of illegal CGI, illusion of support, grandure, and a mental trait in following what seems good.
Which is another circle of KS illegality.
It is all offered at a selection of prices tuned to reward the supporting narrative, and no evidence suggests it can produce at, or actually without, and even negative margins.
Here the backer is actually accused of the burden of knowledge, as proof needs be presented by the campaign, in the form of a bill of material, contracts, etc. To the ability of the campaigner, as per KS rules.
That it is a design-project now, rather than a technology project, does not lift this, and takes us straight back to offering a product that is being designed, something design-projects are not exempt from.
So it is clear that the campaign, other than the t-shirts on offer, is a technology product, as per normal and not as incorrectly classified a design project.
Now you could invalidate any concern by out-sourcing it, much like promises made and not answered has been the life-blood of the scampaign. As such PGS has promised backing in the form of outside investors, time and time again, even citing the lack thereof as the reason to start the campaign. And further that the price is indicative of such outside backing.
There is mental midgetary and cognitive dissonance much too ingrained and plentiful to mention, but the case remains that its KS reputition on the line.
If they don't do anything about this, with the killing it is making, even paying shareholders, i will stop using it, and others will too.
You cannot reinvent yourself away from recourse, not in commerce, not in science.
PGS and KS are currently hand in hand trying to do so. I am proud that the Pyra can exist without and outside the realm of such parasites.
PGS has in addition to this broken rules, repetitively, been caught in lies, and to the knowledgeable and cautious mind paints a very clear narrative. KS needs to do something, otherwise it provides only a platform of unearnt reputation.
I don't know all that much about the razor, but it says 'suspended', rather than 'canceled', which i would imagine be the case for decidedly saying something is a scam. One that ive seen no projects under the status of.
The razor may have been at best slow, but did however make the claim that you could even save time using it, one it could not back up based on its function in current state. A breach of KS rules, which are all very fine, but it doesn't seem they are rigorously employed. It gives opportunity and shows motive, sure, but in the end if some scampaigns can get away, it will lead way to more of the sort.
What the PGS does is to reasonably say something we can assume to function can exist, given by our knowledge of existing technology.
It proves in no way any command of such technology, and simply re-uses variants thereof it to state its claim. Something which does not constitute a prototype. Re-use and promise is not at all what making something is, it may be the start thereof, but not sufficient to offer whats under development as a reward, yet again by KS own rules.
It should also follow that if you posses none of these qualities, no money should be offered. Here the PGS twarts reality by presenting distortion, in the form of illegal CGI, illusion of support, grandure, and a mental trait in following what seems good.
Which is another circle of KS illegality.
It is all offered at a selection of prices tuned to reward the supporting narrative, and no evidence suggests it can produce at, or actually without, and even negative margins.
Here the backer is actually accused of the burden of knowledge, as proof needs be presented by the campaign, in the form of a bill of material, contracts, etc. To the ability of the campaigner, as per KS rules.
That it is a design-project now, rather than a technology project, does not lift this, and takes us straight back to offering a product that is being designed, something design-projects are not exempt from.
So it is clear that the campaign, other than the t-shirts on offer, is a technology product, as per normal and not as incorrectly classified a design project.
Now you could invalidate any concern by out-sourcing it, much like promises made and not answered has been the life-blood of the scampaign. As such PGS has promised backing in the form of outside investors, time and time again, even citing the lack thereof as the reason to start the campaign. And further that the price is indicative of such outside backing.
There is mental midgetary and cognitive dissonance much too ingrained and plentiful to mention, but the case remains that its KS reputition on the line.
If they don't do anything about this, with the killing it is making, even paying shareholders, i will stop using it, and others will too.
You cannot reinvent yourself away from recourse, not in commerce, not in science.
PGS and KS are currently hand in hand trying to do so. I am proud that the Pyra can exist without and outside the realm of such parasites.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
That's no good at all. If a campaign is found to be breaking the rules it needs to be shut down immediately. There is no way to salvage it, the pledges it has have already been taken under false pretences.
I don't really think we can judge anything by Lazer Razer alone. It's really very rare that KS gets around to actually shutting anything down, and that one got a lot of media attention which could have made them actually take notice for a change.
ible
professional vim user
this whole PGS thing has really inspired me to pursue my dreams of building a solar-powered electric vehicle, even though i have no experience to do that. thankfully i still have a prototype:
the best thing about it is that it will have at least a 100 mile (2300 km) battery range, it will charge in 4 hours from a standard outlet, or in a day in the sun. it will also have a built in GPS and tablet device, for which a stretch goal will be to have a completely custom OS designed for it. (another stretch goal is to have factory unlocked 25 mph on the vehicle.) the best thing is that you can have all these features for only $230 if you're an early adopter. [edit] and did i forget to mention that it will weigh less than 30 lbs. [/edit]
UPDATE 2. i can understand you're worried about the prototype, but we will have a real one by the end of the campaign.
UPDATE 3. here it is, finally our very exciting "new" prototype:
the best thing about it is that it will have at least a 100 mile (2300 km) battery range, it will charge in 4 hours from a standard outlet, or in a day in the sun. it will also have a built in GPS and tablet device, for which a stretch goal will be to have a completely custom OS designed for it. (another stretch goal is to have factory unlocked 25 mph on the vehicle.) the best thing is that you can have all these features for only $230 if you're an early adopter. [edit] and did i forget to mention that it will weigh less than 30 lbs. [/edit]
UPDATE 2. i can understand you're worried about the prototype, but we will have a real one by the end of the campaign.
UPDATE 3. here it is, finally our very exciting "new" prototype:
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vcoleiro1
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@Exophase
Well, the media attention on the PGS ridiculousness is growing also.
I've seen a few KS campaigns get shut down for various reasons. It happens. A couple I think from the Ouya game fund days where backers were said to be from the company itself. Again, they waitred till the last days. I remember thinking back then that KS must be sadists. Looking back, I believe they are just too lenient and want give them an opportunity to set things right. But I agree, for the PGS, given that some backers have pledged when the campaign had photo realistic renders, it's hard to correct that.
Just an interesting side note: But I found out a while back that KS can pull any project for no reason what so ever.
Some interesting stories on suspended KS campaigns
http://cliqist.com/2016/04/07/suspended-kickstarter-video-game-campaign/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/kickstarter-suspends-vacuumclicka-campaign/
http://mashable.com/2014/10/17/kickstarter-anonabox-suspended-fraud-accusations/#Y2CztRST7sqg
http://www.techrepublic.com/picture...ampaigns-10-big-fund-raisers-that-got-yanked/
Getting back to PGS, this campaign has gone from:
To:
Well, the media attention on the PGS ridiculousness is growing also.
I've seen a few KS campaigns get shut down for various reasons. It happens. A couple I think from the Ouya game fund days where backers were said to be from the company itself. Again, they waitred till the last days. I remember thinking back then that KS must be sadists. Looking back, I believe they are just too lenient and want give them an opportunity to set things right. But I agree, for the PGS, given that some backers have pledged when the campaign had photo realistic renders, it's hard to correct that.
Just an interesting side note: But I found out a while back that KS can pull any project for no reason what so ever.
Some interesting stories on suspended KS campaigns
http://cliqist.com/2016/04/07/suspended-kickstarter-video-game-campaign/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/kickstarter-suspends-vacuumclicka-campaign/
http://mashable.com/2014/10/17/kickstarter-anonabox-suspended-fraud-accusations/#Y2CztRST7sqg
http://www.techrepublic.com/picture...ampaigns-10-big-fund-raisers-that-got-yanked/
Getting back to PGS, this campaign has gone from:
To:
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
You can maintain the idea that you are honest till it is disproven,
to support the idea that you are knowledgeable, when that is clearly false,
till you reveal someone else to take over, without evidence.
If that isn't a scam to someone, i would very much like to know what is.
Naivety is not evidence against a scam, it is the idiocy that supports its being.
to support the idea that you are knowledgeable, when that is clearly false,
till you reveal someone else to take over, without evidence.
If that isn't a scam to someone, i would very much like to know what is.
Naivety is not evidence against a scam, it is the idiocy that supports its being.
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