PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor


C
As I mentioned before, Skarp showed a prototype also, it was orders of magnitude better than what PGS showed. So if you are looking for precedence, there's that.

Lets be honest here, if a number of people complained to KS, and KS actually got around to seeing those complaints amongst the zillions they must get everyday. Then I'd find it hard to believe they would not toss the PGS project for breaking that rule. Hard to argue a tablet and ipega controller with a rough shell are in the spirit of the rule to explicitly show a working prototype.

That would be like me starting a KS to develop a car, only for me to show a Ford Explorer with doors I made out of foam and said, yep, explicit prototype. It aint going to fly.

By the way, to anyone reading this, I do not condone reporting them.

Could also be that Kickstarter wants the 10% gratuity for doing nothing. They must be losing some of the potential gloabl market place for such aspirations. Indiegogo, GoFundMe, Crowdrise, BuzZbnk, Fundly, I'm not even doing this horrifically long list justice. There are tens of dozens of crowd-funding sites now. Look at what GPD Win did with their latest handheld. They hit a half-dozen sites with their product. Maybe Kickstarter started out with the greatest intentions of their own, but in order to make money? They might just look the other way. #greed
 
You need to understand how big KS is and,how many projects they get. I doubt very much that they do much of any vetting. The thing then, is when these projects go live, so many people complain that they are flooded with complaints. So you then need to hope that they get to your complaint and review it.

Them looking at the cash is probably a factor, but there is a risk for them also, if a project broke their rules and falied, the backers would have legal recourse against KS for allowing the project against their rules.

KS really need to be careful though, if a project didn't meet their rules and slipped through to the end and eventually failed. Then that would open the door for legal action against KS for allowing a project that broke their rules. Might be the wake up call they need.
 
You need to understand how big KS is and,how many projects they get. I doubt very much that they do much of any vetting. There are so many dodgy projects . The thing then, is when these projects go live, so many people complain that they are flooded with complaints. So you then need to hope that they get to your complaint and review it.

Could be that. That they are now soooo big, that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Maybe. I have NO idea why this is still up on KS. It seems to violate most of their rules - at least at some point or another. The "team" seems to monitor these boards (among others) and use them to realize their next step in their deception....errr, campaign.
 
Well , I don't think they are scammers. I think they are dreamers.

Maybe "that" distinction will help to soothe the backers woes, when they look at their empty wallets.
[doublepost=1467947378,1467945903][/doublepost]...BUT, aren't they "scammers"? You've been watching this KS train-wreck unfold. They lied before they were supposedly "forced by these imaginary investors" to go to Kickstarter? You've pointed out many examples of their inconsistencies. They've mislead at almost every turn, and then when called on their lies (misrepresentations of the truth), they come up with new ideas on how to appease the backers. Looking at how this vaporware-handheld has been "developed", in a 3-D CAD program and in someone's imagination...it will NEVER be real.

They DON'T have a prototype. They are banking on the hundreds of thousands of dollars of support so that they can come up with a product after collection of the funds? Get real.
 
Ok, I find there is something a little strange with the company staff announcements

1) The KS video shows 14 people, but they told me on reddit AMA recently that they have only 7 staff, some may have left over time as it was an old video. They did say they had others in the past . Ok, so that's fair enough

2) Lola the actress is there legal affairs manager ?

3) Alan Williams in the KS video - the lead guy, is said to be the Product designer, yet in the KS update the other day, he is billed as the Community manager. Odd role change don't you think, particularly when they need a product designer

4) The KS update now has them at 6 staff

5) I can't find anything on the other members of their staff other than for the CEO who was exposed before the KS update, and Lola the actress .
 
Ok, I find there is something a little strange with the company staff announcements

1) The KS video shows 14 people, but they told me on reddit AMA recently that they have only 7 staff, some may have left over time as it was an old video. They did say they had others in the past . Ok, so that's fair enough

2) Lola the actress is there legal affairs manager ?

3) Alan Williams in the KS video - the lead guy, is said to be the Product designer, yet in the KS update the other day, he is billed as the Community manager. Odd role change don't you think, particularly when they need a product designer

4) The KS update now has them at 6 staff

5) I can't find anything on the other members of their staff other than for the CEO who was exposed before the KS update, and Lola the actress .

...and that's not all. If you dig deep enough, you'll find out that "they" are rather fluid. The business (LLC? by an Arabic Gentleman living in Michigan) has the business, yet the American team is in China and the Russian team is running things, but they have great Japanese Engineers somewhere? Yet they hope to rent an office in Detroit, MI USA? They don't even know how to lie well.
 
I think the guy noted on their LLC filing is the agent that people go to start companies. So that isn't odd to me.

I can possibly understand that Lola the actress is helping them and helped start some things for them. It just seems like they slapped that legal affairs title on her. Who knows, maybe she is also a legal affairs person. It just sounds all a little weird combined with everything else.
 
I think the guy noted on their LLC filing is the agent that people go to start companies. So that isn't odd to me.

I can possibly understand that Lola the actress is helping them and helped start some things for them. It just seems like they slapped that legal affairs title on her. Who knows, maybe she is also a legal affairs person. It just sounds all a little weird combined with everything else.

I'm not familiar with her. If she's an actress and is being hired to prop up more "advertising" support for this vaporware, then it's even worse than I imagined. Their margins are already squeezed to nothing (actually negative). It just looks like they're trying to promise the heavens and the moon with their insane stretch goals in order to get more funds from the rubes. Maybe it should be shut down.
[doublepost=1467950486,1467950323][/doublepost]I do believe in "caveat emptor", but it's really disheartening when so many people are taken. It borders on "Why didn't I do something to prevent this???"
 
Look at the comments section of their KS page, everything said here has been said there countless times. Yet people still back it. Negative comments there are overwhelming. yet people still back it.
I think most people there know there are red flags and this is extremely risky. Yet they continue to back it. What can you say, hopefully PGS have an investor to bail them out.
 
That Wrath of Kahn person said something along the lines of that the supporters only have themselves to blame. There is certainly that to consider.....but this will get messy.

I do appreciate the openness of the Pyra and even the latter stages of the Pandora development(s) after ED took over from Craig. I will purchase AGAIN from this company - they do things right/correctly.
 
Some people just don't have the experience or knowledge to be able to see the red flags in a device like this. What they see now is the hundreds of other people who backed it and that speaks loudly.

PGSLab themselves may not understand the problems...

I still hold KS themselves more accountable than anyone, although at least they tightened up the restrictions a bit. But they do as little as they possibly can, extremely little oversight, and put all of the risk on the backers and project creators.

Interestingly, even KS themselves say you can run projects that are only intended for R&D, where the output is developing a prototype and the deliverable is showing people what you developed and moving on to the next phase. I don't know why we don't ever seem to see people actually do this. The process is better for all parties involved, so long as the backers can be convinced to pay for something that won't turn into an immediate deliverable. For a project like this you'd think several would be.

Most investment in the real world (as well as fixed price contracting) would also be tiered with similar milestones.
 
Some people just don't have the experience or knowledge to be able to see the red flags in a device like this. What they see now is the hundreds of other people who backed it and that speaks loudly.

PGSLab themselves may not understand the problems...

I still hold KS themselves more accountable than anyone, although at least they tightened up the restrictions a bit. But they do as little as they possibly can, extremely little oversight, and put all of the risk on the backers and project creators.

Interestingly, even KS themselves say you can run projects that are only intended for R&D, where the output is developing a prototype and the deliverable is showing people what you developed and moving on to the next phase. I don't know why we don't ever seem to see people actually do this. The process is better for all parties involved, so long as the backers can be convinced to pay for something that won't turn into an immediate deliverable. For a project like this you'd think several would be.

Most investment in the real world (as well as fixed price contracting) would also be tiered with similar milestones.

If that is true: "even KS themselves say you can run projects that are only intended for R&D, where the output is developing a prototype and the deliverable is showing people what you developed and moving on to the next phase" then THAT is ill conceived by KS, but in 22 days...this PGS company needs to show a prototype then? Right? When do they need to show a real product? This is insane.
[doublepost=1467953575,1467953350][/doublepost]If it's their contention that they're collecting massive funds (hundreds of thousands of dollars) in order to actually start to figure out how to make the product that they promised? This is out-right fraud. I can't believe that people can buy into this.
 
If that is true: "even KS themselves say you can run projects that are only intended for R&D, where the output is developing a prototype and the deliverable is showing people what you developed and moving on to the next phase" then THAT is ill conceived by KS, but in 22 days...this PGS company needs to show a prototype then? Right? When do they need to show a real product? This is insane.
[doublepost=1467953575,1467953350][/doublepost]If it's their contention that they're collecting massive funds (hundreds of thousands of dollars) in order to actually start to figure out how to make the product that they promised? This is out-right fraud. I can't believe that people can buy into this.

Not sure if I was being totally clear. What I meant is that KS allows prototype projects, where you fund the project then they use the money to develop a prototype. The obvious difference is that those projects don't promise backers a shipped product, they just promise that they'll show the prototype.

KS says you can do these prototype projects but they don't seem to encourage it and I'm not sure the system is really well setup for it. Really they should fixed contribution caps that are some multiple of the goal, because the project's output doesn't scale with the total contribution.

In PGS's case, since the project is for a delivered product, they needed to show a prototype before starting. It's already too late, they've broken the rules. They probably think the thing they showed and called a prototype qualifies as one, or at least they thought people would be convinced. At least they described it accurately, rather than trying to pass it off as something it wasn't. They couldn't turn what they have into a prototype development project, it never qualified.
 
Not sure if I was being totally clear. What I meant is that KS allows prototype projects, where you fund the project then they use the money to develop a prototype. The obvious difference is that those projects don't promise backers a shipped product, they just promise that they'll show the prototype.

KS says you can do these prototype projects but they don't seem to encourage it and I'm not sure the system is really well setup for it. Really they should fixed contribution caps that are some multiple of the goal, because the project's output doesn't scale with the total contribution.

In PGS's case, since the project is for a delivered product, they needed to show a prototype before starting. It's already too late, they've broken the rules. They probably think the thing they showed and called a prototype qualifies as one, or at least they thought people would be convinced. At least they described it accurately, rather than trying to pass it off as something it wasn't. They couldn't turn what they have into a prototype development project, it never qualified.

Yes. That's the way that I see it as well. I can't improve on your last paragraph. Good Night, Exophase.
 
Look at the comments section of their KS page, everything said here has been said there countless times. Yet people still back it. Negative comments there are overwhelming. yet people still back it.
I think most people there know there are red flags and this is extremely risky. Yet they continue to back it. What can you say, hopefully PGS have an investor to bail them out.

As long as it's Cheap Enough, People seem to believe in it (or they are Dumb and think KS will give them their Money Back if it Fails).
 
Well, the PGS CEO has just made some responses to backers questions. He seems to have answered a few questions that I had been wondering on.

@Tales Dan Tamada
@MJPIA
@Julio López
Lola Kochetkova is indeed a part of our team and an official manager of PGS LAB LLC. It was her who helped us creating LLC and bank account, and also in registering the American patent for invention. The reason why the Kickstarter campaign was started on behalf of her is that only a US resident can start a campaign. To my deepest regret I am not a US resident, so the campaign couldn't be started on my behalf. As for doubting about whether or not Lola permitted to use her data to register - the data couldn't be used without her notice since Kickstarter obligates to enter an individual tax number. And only after validating it, KS gives permission to register.
@Gov
Closer to the end of the campaign, after acquiring some feedback and deciding about some minimal changes in device design, we will present the upgraded concept.
The D-Pad, similar to that of Xbox, and other changes will be shown in the concept.
The Amoled is officially confirmed for the Hardcore version. It was our mistake that Amoled was accidentally thrown to The Goals, we are sorry for that. As for overclocking, we will surely release the utility to fine tune the CPU/GPU performance.
There are quite many features that we have access to. We will also try implementing the opportunity to overclock the main components. We do not promise, but we will do as much as possible.
@david craig
Those users who don't want the E-Ink in their PGS Hardcore will get the version with regular optional display.
@Shelby
@david craig
@Yingshuai Zhang
PGS - Portable Gaming System. PGS Lab - Portable Gaming Solutions Lab.
@alexander Chernyshev
Our company is registered in Detroit. One of the Kickstarter requirements is to be a company officially registered in the USA (or some other countries in Europe). Without having a company in the USA we simply couldn't start the Kickstarter campaign.
If you have doubts about my professional skills, you may personally ask me questions throughceo@pgslab.com.
@Bryan U-Vin
We are not a big but a talented team. Alan is also a great designer. Although I am a CEO, there are much more responsibilities on me than one may suppose. I personally play a large role in engineering and graphical sides of the project.
@Michael Mrozek
I also take a significant part in engineering and a main part in case design. We are not a big team but each does the job according to the skills.
@david craig
In the video, along with the team key members there are people who help us to different extent, but they are not the key members. Assuming that the project is funded from own funds I didn't intended to build a large staff.
@Argohrn
We are planning to implement the regular set of sensors that most Android smartphones use.
@stephen Sprites
The main goal that we have to achieve by the end of the campaign is finishing the more complex, improved prototype and showing it in the new video.
@Pablo Emilio Acevedo Díaz
We'll try to demonstrate the updated prototype version starting from the moment of device power on and all the following stages.
@Michael Mrozek (OpenPandora GmbH)
Thank you for your advice. My experience as a portable devices engineer is really not as extensive as that of Pandora team, but we truly realize that expenses may exceed the revenue from Kickstarter. We are ready for that.
@Jean-paul Joseph
Z8750 also perfectly works with Windows 8.1.
@Luke Palmgren
We are planning to develop separate device versions, one supporting European networks, and one for the US networks.
@Zlipher
The input elements of the PGS will work through Xinput. You will be able to use any software to remap the keys functioning.
@Zlipher
The finished device pack will include the adapter from USB-C to the full-sized USB.
You will be able to plug any peripheral directly or even through a USB hub. We are planning to implement a replaceable battery in PGS Hardcore.
@Horace Cheng
Maybe I was really too excessive in my previous post, but I said what I'm really thinking. We are not a large team, but we are trying hard and we'll keep doing everything possible for you. We listen and consider your advices, thank you.
@Justin
Thanks for advices.
@Ong TH
The question of PGS Hardcore memory is in consideration now. We are researching this question, thank you.
@Gov
z8750 produces about 2 watts of heat under the load. The most Windows-based tablets with Cherry Trail processors do not include any heat removal radiators. In our case there will be a tiny radiator connected to the case. Do not worry about heat problem, we will prevent it in either version of PGS, including the titanium one.
@Nofear2plus
I'm afraid we will not show you something brand new right now and today, but we are trying hard to do it by the end of the campaign.
@Qing Fang
Sure
@Erosquare
As I mentioned earlier, we came to Kickstarter in order to be less dependent on investors. In order to create a device which we really expect it to be and to show it to you.
Thank you for advices, we'll take it into account.
@Opium Pulses
Thanks for your advice. I'll consider your opinion.
 
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