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PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor

Discussion in 'Everything else' started by Faust, Apr 10, 2016.

  1. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think any early birds may get lucky.

    With the expertise I see right now, they will probably never ever have a working prototype.
    Well, with 500k EUR maybe, if they find a company that can do the design.

    I wonder... maybe that Kickstarter is a bait for investors?
    Trying to show the interest is there and then trying to fund it with investors, delivering a small production run for lower-than-production cost prices and then having a normal sales price of 500 EUR?
     
    rygD likes this.
  2. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Risky?, I would would lean towards, and IMO, impossible without an investor cash injection

    Lets recap some things.

    1) The CEO is a graphics and visual artist who probably put together the video and the 3d renders seen in it. He is the CEO, but doesn't appear in the PGS video. He is russian and lives in russia and the site is hosted in Russia. ie he isn't based in Detroit where he registered PGSLAB LLC. He says they will form an office there after the KS. Aha

    2) It seems what they plan to create would cost in parts, what I would estimate to be getting close to double what they provisioned for. See my previous post above regarding this.

    3) They have no prototype, they don't plan to create a real (with their own PCB) prototype before the end of the Kickstarter. That they say, will come after the KS when they find a partner with Electrical engineering skills that can design the PCB. So how on earth do they know what they planned is feasible at all if they haven't designed the PCB? Think about that.

    4) They have a slide out screen that almost completely slides out to show the gamepad and second screen. How does it do that. Every slider of any type that Iv'e seen, all cover the bottom section when open by about 33-40%.

    5) Telescopic sticks, the mechanical mechanism for which they have yet to develop. Oh boy.

    6) They have a team of seven (video shows 14, but it's old , so maybe 7 left) and the campaign to delivery of the PGS runs for about 9 months. Yet in the funding breakdown, they allocate only 5% to operational expenses. So if they had of made their original target of $100K, 5% is $5k , that to pay seven people for 9 months? Even if they reach $1M , % being $50K, is not going to fund seven people for 9 months and pay for all other operational expenses.. Are they all volunteering?

    7) They catered for 20% to pay for an industrial prototype. 20% of their $100K target would have been $20K, Hmm, ok, but what about tooling costs like steel molds for plastic injection for plastic parts. Where is the provision for those? Is it embedded in the prototype costs. This doesn't sound right, molds can be expensive.

    8) It doesn't seem like they made anything before. Could be wrong, but thats the feeling I get here

    9) They showed previous drafts of their KS page , the first of which had a note by KS that said the project didn't meet KS rules and pointed to the KS rules page. That page mentioned not using photo realistic renders and also that they needed to show an explicit working prototype. This was also mentioned over time to them by various forum posters. Even a day before they went live, I warned them that their KS didn't meet KS rules - (they showed us a final draft). Yet knowing they didn't meet KS rules, they still went ahead with the campaign anyway. What does that tell you ?

    10) They say that using third party products constitutes a prototype. Of course it doesn't, that's ridiculous. Would it be reasonable for me to start a KS campaign to build and produce a car, only to show a prototype which was a Ford Explorer with the doors removed?

    At the end of the day it's your call fox, but if your expecting to get something from being an early bird, I'd reassess that. A lot of KS campaigns that I have seen fail, end up with little cash to make anything. Remember the ICP2 - surely you haven't forgotten already
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  3. Foxgod

    Foxgod Active Member

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    Who knows, but at this rate 500K should be no problem for this kickstarter to archieve.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2016 ---
    I agree, its a stretch, a major stretch, the Pyra has been an enormous undertaking, and ive been with the Pandora from the beginning too, so i agree that even if they can make it, it might not even end up becoming what they are promising now, but i am curious what this might lead to.
     
  4. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

    Joined:
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    It leads (hypotetically) to everyones money getting spent on making a prototype, which leaves no devices for anyone.

    OR

    It leads to everyone's money being taken for a ride, (bingo) during the course of which a lot of people will cancel. Same as above.

    Chances of products in buyers hands, none. Chance of tears, ranging from yes to yes. If you want to believe, you get the full amount back and none of it is spent designing anything. (you wont)

    The only difference being _when_ people realize. With even the dishonest and lackluster information up there now, even if you want to believe, there is nothing to believe in.

    Edit: There is also no price-point at which it makes sense.

    Either its 20% for industrial prototype out of 100k, with 20k you aren't even making the case, much less a custom PCB, bios, hacking it together, a custom joystick. Its not going magically all fit and work and be ready for mass production, but that is another issue.

    Even if you make it 20% out of one million euro, 200k, you won't make it this year, or the next, at best.

    Look at GPD, they are a veteran company. Re-using as much as they can, fitting it into already existing ecosystem, in China. Even if you believe as strongly as you want, even doing what they do, for anyone else, is a huge undertaking.

    Nobody has ever made a successful mobile Intel product.

    Here comes no experience, and errors to suggest they know nothing about technology, thinking they can magically set up production in China, get away with it, and meanwhile 'make up' a prototype.

    They can't even juggle kickstarters terms and condidtions. It is satire.

    Edit: 10% kickstarter fees (reasonable) 10% tax 5% operational expenses.
    So on the premise of they are doing this for shits and giggles, with everyone volunteering, and that 'renting an office' is the only operational expence (it isnt) How exactly do you have one company, paying 10% tax, in America?
    ratespgs.png
    So lets relate these numbers to actual reality.
    20% for "industrial prototype" If this is the money you are taking _from_ the kickstarter, how does a prototype even get funded before the project ends?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  5. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    4,035
    Ok, PGS just answered some people in the KS comments section. Here's some choice responses by PGS.

    "We do have experienced engineers in our team which are capable of working on the PCB design, but now we have a lot of tasks to be done only once, which are not to be reworked later. The final PCB design depends on many factors, including the achieved Stretch Goals. At the current stage we don't think we should do things which should be inevitably reworked in the future. "

    "The nearest update will be dedicated to introducing our team. "

    "Our negotiations with Intel have come to further point, so we decided that it is the right way to remove the AMD Goal. "

    Someone asked "By the way, did they hire the ScreenJunkies honest trailer guy to say "PGS Revolution Now"?"
    PGS responded with "By the way, it was indeed a "ScreenJunkies honest trailer guy"

    That last comment, whaaat. I actually tweeted the screen junkies guy to see if it's true. That would be funny.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  6. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Uncanny Valley
    It needs more than a marketing guy selling dreams and a bag of money to make such a thing reality, it needs insane amounts of dedication, sacrifice, people with diverse skills that can work together and experience.
    Pyra has all this as we all know.
    Even with a million dollars I wouldn't even expect a prototype, the scenario mentioned by Exophase is more likely (building up hype and then selling out to a company which may be able to do it), taking the money for oneself is another not unusual possibility.

    Whenever I see a project led by a marketing guy himself I expect nothing else than hot air and in 99% of the cases it will never become anything more.

    BTW: My own prototype is real and progressing, it will be working when it's done.
    Please don't repost these pictures. ;)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  7. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

    Joined:
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    I see you have a dollar-crank right at the end of it.

    Tried to document the PGS history:

    (Update, we are at stage 11th instalment of this series, and I want to announce the following:

    Community donations, ED and his team and real investors helped dig the openpandora out of the hole it was in. Because of it we have something to offer to the PGS customers, both in knowing who to trust and in the form of the Dragonbox Pyra. It comes with a warm welcome. Welcome to the community.

    STAGE 1
    PGS, That company with a website
    This story starts "two years ago", when a CGI artist has a dream of making a handheld device.
    In the years following, it remains a dream device, in every way but one.
    sept15ks.png

    The person making it spends his time testing ready-made devices, and is unconvinced.
    News of this concept-device makes it to our boards, and the feedback leads straight back to the drawing-board, challening the basics of what is at this point still a conceptual sketch.
    "Current prototypes are assembled from more recent hardware (z8700\4gb)"
    At the time this was said, we had not seen the "current prototypes" yet.

    (edit: video taken down)
    The company has been found http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_llc.asp?id_nbr=E7561M&name_entity=PGS LAB LLC
    Claims about talking to "yota devices", presumably makers of yotaphone, moscow office, or logistics office in the air.
    So one limited liability company, that we now know PGS intends to rent an office for, after the campaign. As detailed in KS comments
    "PGS LAB on July 2

    Our company is registered in Detroit. We are planning to rent an office there after the end of the campaign,"

    Searched for: PGS LAB LLC

    ID Num: E7561M
    Name:PGS LAB LLC
    Type: Domestic Limited Liability Company
    Resident Agent: MICHAEL SHARIFF
    Registered Office Address: 40900 WOODWARD AVE STE 111 BLOOMFIELD HILLS MI 48304
    Mailing/Office Address:

    Formation/Qualification Date:12-11-2015

    Jurisdiction of Origin:MICHIGAN
    Managed by: Managers
    Status: ACTIVE Date: Present

    The video he has talken about has soon "dissapeared" from youtube, saying the link doesn't exist.
    Whatever it was, it spurred quite a bit of controversy
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201659800&postcount=276
    You can still find some of it referenced here

    The response to which prompted a second follow-up in the series


    Investors that don't know about kickstarter, supposedly have so much money they use kickstarter for evaluating demand…
    Many questions, and little news. The smallest of which is A "frankenstein-prototype" made by butchering a tablet for its internals, and placing the innards in a case.
    At this point we know intel is closing down their mobile division, and that options for anything after gauging demand, is slipping fast.
    Regular sales deadline of December is not even mentioned on kickstarter. Which has

    Production JAN 2017
    Shipping to backers MAR 2017

    So from 8 of jun to at least no later than 7.jun (at the time of me writing this) the schedule has slipped at least 4 months.
    Since PGS is actively doing product research on the pyra forums, at this point, it seems things are very much not nailed down.

    " if you have any doubts in quality of the final product, we recommend you to wait until first reviews appear and official sales launched" ← Good advice.

    A prototype is promised
    "We will show one when we start our campaign if that's what you're asking."
    When, not during, not after.
    STAGE 2
    How the PGS kickstarter goal was met, and how the goalposts were moved behind the scenes
    Remember the "frankenstein-prototype" made by butchering a tablet for its internals, and placing the innards in a case? Yes, that is still a thing. In many variants, some attempts at which don't even show anything other than other peoples tablets…!?

    An incomplete case, lacking buttons, with fake buttons, not the same as the render, with tablet-internals, and no controls.

    Read https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes

    If at first you read it in the least strict way possible, anything is indistinguishable from a scam, provided people are stupid enough.

    >it’s important to make sure backers know what stage of development the project is in.

    Here they did try to pass off getting a prototype for the joysticks, as on par with being able to show off gaming performance. In my world that is an engineering sample, of a standard part(?) Companies will actually send you those things for free. I got some buttons when checking out stuff for the Pyra that way. (And i'm not even on the Pyra engineering team…!)

    >Do show backers a prototype.
    >Provide backers with a realistic sense of where the project stands
    Showing gaming performance isn't realistic. Its like saying a stock engine doesn't overheat once you try to fit it in a car you intend to build, it may work in someone elses, but that's not your prototype. Thats a regular production model car that you fit into your non-running shell.
    The prototype for what you have, is what they useded to develop it. If everyone could get away with using other peoples products as prototypes, prototypes don't, and wouldn't, actually exist.
    The printed circuit board thats showing is from a tablet. Their case is paper, and the closest thing to it is 3D-printed. None of this costs money to do. But it appears that way. That is the point.
    pgspcb.png
    "Hardware from compatible tablets were used for these prototypes"
    Having not started the "technical part" the use of the word prototype, means you should took a wrong turn at the integrity part.
    >— including what’s been accomplished so far, and
    >what work remains to be done.

    Well if you agree that not much has been done, and that two years has been spent dreaming up designs and making renderings, then I guess so. So what about the impression that something real is being done. KS thought of this.
    >Don't use photorealistic renderings.
    cgipgs.png

    So the video is an offender, and the images are nothing but renders, but wait, there is more.
    >Technical drawings, CAD models, and sketches are awesome and encouraged, but photorealistic renderings that >someone might mistake for a finished product are prohibited.
    I find it extremely hard to believe someone might not know what a 3D render is. And that's all there is right now.
    For all we can rationally estimate, what's on the bottom screen is the 3D render.
    rendersmartphone.png

    >If your project will involve manufacturing gadgets or other products, we ask that you show as much as you can
    >about how you're going to do that, including things like a production plan, an estimated schedule, and any other >details you can provide for backers.

    "Gadgets" that's exactly what this is. One could argue the theoretical point if the idea is even to "manufacture" anything here. Other than that, its slim pickings.
    >Projects that involve the development of physical products
    Yes, we get that, but not with PGS. PGS produces intent. Intent without direction.
    >must feature explicit demos of working prototypes.
    I don't know exactly what an 'explicit demo' is, but a working prototype does not exist in the sense of any development of physical products, in the physical sense. If you mean to explicitly demo a gaming handheld, that you intend to make, that isn't someone else's, then no such effort has been made.
    >While you can run a project focused on the creation of a prototype, you can't offer the product that is under >development as a reward.
    Bingo! They are offering a product that they don't have a prototype for.
    STAGE 3
    Lying through your teeth, beyond ability, and beyond:
    laptoppgs.png
    Its not a laptop, because a laptop has a keyboard. It can be used as a slate, because it is a slate.
    Gaming-controls does not a laptop make. You can call it gaming slate, or a controller with a screen, laptop, no.
    rendersmartphone.png

    It said "Smartphone mode - LTE" above, which I guess means it has the LTE-part of what is today considered a smartphone. But writing SMARTPHONE, isn't at all what it is, or?
    And it's not "the Dualboot system". It is a dualboot system, or dual-booting system. Lets not pretend PGS made a system.
    Shipping with Android doesn't make it a smartphone, it makes it a tablet with LTE.
    So, do they have voice, SMS and MMS set up and working? If not, its not a smartphone.
    consolepgs.png

    What's the definition of a console? Maybe it means it can SSH out…
    Does it have a game-console UI, does it have a console OS? Not that I see.
    For a interpretation that this is a game-console, so is everything else with gaming controls.
    Which brings us to the epistemological question of being, it isn't actually a product, so you can't put in your pocket.
    Nor can you rationally compare it to existing products. The SMACKZ is planning to be more powerful (according to smackz comment on their beta-site) doesn't mean _when it delivers_ it will be the most powerful.

    It may be the most powerful plan, dubiously, at best.

    If you make a portable gaming console with heavy iron processing and GPU just for kicks, it would invalidate their claim, even if its just a one-off. Even re-jigged portable versions of regular consoles qualify, which is far heavier than anything this could theoretically pull.

    intelpgs.png

    its only advanced in power efficiency, and unbeatable gaming performance is a lie. It in no way compares to laptops or desktops. But wow, its a garden sentence that implies portable was the criteria all along. Wow.
    I don't think it supports Mantle, so not all modern graphic APIs then.
    Dynamic scaling isn't just something that allows power efficiency, it is a necessity for ramping up into 2.56GHz. Which on four cores it can do not at all long enough for it to be enjoyable as a base level of gaming performance.

    gamingperfpgs.png

    "TARGET PERFORMANCE RIG", isn't a prototype.
    Ipega or microsoft surface 3, cropped to look like the actual product, isn't how to test gaming performance. Running one screen at lower resolution, on someone elses product, in better conditions than their product in a mock-case, is not a test of running two screens in an actual prototype. Not for heat, nor for load.

    >a large volume of fast memory is essential for all portable gaming consoles.
    No it isn't, memory volume is about the least important. Speed and timings matter somewhat, but even 4GB as the smallest they advertise I don't think they can utilize in anything game-like. Examples?

    cooling system.png

    Just some misconceptions to deal with, this is still not a high performance gaming system. It is potentially high performance for low power. And a cooling system doesn't make it produce less heat, it allows it to produce more.

    High performance devices produce exactly the amount of heat you ask for, which is a way to say within capability.
    While its more wasteful with high-power rigs, the gaming performance also does not compare.
    If they created something that doesn't throttle, WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THAT?
    The copper plate and pipe, well that must mean gas pipes, cool, WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THAT?
    Also, that isn't new.
    How copper is connected to the non-copper base is up for question. That it is an engineering challenge, beyond doubt.
    Also because that's where the battery is (unless that is in the top screen)
    If they only created it in CAD, you can't claim it doesn't throttle.
    The processor is protected BY throttling, maybe that's what they meant…

    >claims about display

    Nothing about which display it is.
    >pixillation
    You sure know the words PGS, you sure do.
    >One of the best.
    OK PGS, if you say so…
    touchpadpgs.png

    RTS games, as a category, with a touchpad, isn't that, deranged? Its not even a touchpad…
    I guess there exists some kind of touchpad RTS game, which may give this some miniscule credibility, provided you read it the right way. So if it _cant_ be played with gamepad, guessing you are serious about your touchscreen gaming.
    For everyone else, that is called _casual_ gaming.
    May I ask what they had in mind?
    win10pgs.png

    Win10 isn't the incredibly familiar windows OS. Windows isn't the incredibly familiar OS.
    The PGS isn't better for Gaming, browsing or working. Nor is Win10.
    Win10 is the spy on the user closed source OS, that MS is trying to trick you into getting.
    With one of their schemes being "gratis" (notafreelunch) for devices under 10".
    According to another project, they changed this to a minimum of 1k devices. So no, you cant get it, and advertising it as value is both hilarious and wrong.

    But yes, PC-games are played with real keyboards and real mice. (not wireless) And if a desktop, not the PGS.

    Android6.png

    And there it is! It says "receive calls" and "send messages", this could have meant, for the case of argument VoIP, but they VALIDATED IT by saying: "all the traditional features and tools of Android devices" SMS and Calls
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Licensing
    Do they have rights to promote the android brand with their product?
    "The license does not grant rights to the "Android" trademark, so device manufacturers and wireless carriers have to license it from Google under individual contracts."
    The open handset alliance, which i don't think PGS is in, has their rules.
    Google has multiple ways to control Android. And they don't allow dual-booting (since 2014). Nor does MS btw.
    "Google licenses their Google Mobile Services software, along with Android trademarks, only to hardware manufacturers for devices that meet Google's compatibility standards specified in the Android Compatibility Program document."
    >5 channel audio
    With only 4 speakers, described as "quadraphonic" that means one phantom channel, with everything working dual duty for the .1 bass.
    And at least two channels facing away from you, interesting.
    Having the front channels on the side, then the back channels going in the opposite direction of the recording, is strange. Even with refraction from the back wall, you are getting it in the wrong direction.
    Channel separation on something you hold in your hand isn't going to be good.
    schemespgs.png
    >Full set of control elements, which are used as a standard in all modern games
    Except for keyboard and mouse, which is the standard
    >supporting gaming controllers.
    Gotcha. So a full set of control elements, for a very non-full set of games. Garden sentence.
    So it's a gamepad, why didn't you say its a gamepad. It has a gamepad and no other standard control elements.
    A gamepad without a 6button button-cluster. Making N64 and SEGA games a stretch. But those aren't modern, sure.
    Then again modern gamepad games are kinda rare. No, a car-game you can play with d-pad isn't the standard for anything.
    communitypgs.png
    Latest news about what? I would never deceive my friends into thinking a product with a dream is more than a dream.
    >depends solely on your opinion.
    So nothing is nailed down. Guess if you don't believe in this project, it isn't an actual hardware project. But it nonetheless advertises a hardware product.
    At this point the goal is met and PGS their category from "technology" to "product design", current funders are not made aware or asked to accept this change.
    STAGE 4
    Rules are still rules
    https://www.kickstarter.com/rules?ref=learn_category_technology

    >Projects must create something to share with others.
    >Kickstarter can be used to create all sorts of things: art and gadgets, events and spaces, ideas and experiences. But >every project needs a plan for creating something and sharing it with the world. At some point, the creator should be >able to say: “It’s finished. Here’s what we created. Enjoy!”
    Nothing created to share. No plan to get there shared.

    >Projects must be honest and clearly presented.
    >Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent >facts, and creators >should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves >manufacturing and distributing >something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show >backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we
    >prohibit photorealistic renderings.

    Mislead, misrepresent. No prototype of what they are making. WE PROHIBIT PHOTOREALISTIC RENDERINGS. The images are only later changed to something less photorealistic, backers are not made aware or asked to accept this change.
    pgs_original.gif
    The only thing that is clear here, is that this is a different product, cropped. Ipega makes Ipega products, not PGS.
    >Projects can’t fundraise for charity, offer financial incentives, or involve prohibited items.
    Does PGS qualify for ONE of the main rules?

    Oh wait https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prohibited

    >Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new
    Yup. Thats _exactly_ what they shared.
    >or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.
    Notice it says or, not when not. So PGS fails.

    Trademark violation for Android
    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics#faq_52666

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/community
    Details about spam, honesty etc.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
    I know it says you cant reproduce content, but I do so anyway in the interest of helping backers. Fair use if you will.

    Additional kickstarter term:
    1. Misrepresentative support
      Projects cannot have related parties create an illusion of support.

    [​IMG]
    Did you know Wired and Gizmodo question the reality of the project? That is why PGS doesn't link back.
    Haven't checked that many, but these seem to be from before the campaign was launched, when PGS was promising a prototype at launch…

    In this update misleadingly named "Intel Corporation is ready to help us"

    It was claimed: "They see an opportunity to assist us in the development.
    If the negotiations go well, maybe they will become our partners. For us it would be a great honor.

    We are confident that the partnership with corporation like Intel will help us to achieve the best results."

    @sitjar83 I did contact them, we will provide performance support for this project, fine tuning information.


    [​IMG] François Piednoël ‏@FPiednoel 4. jul.
    @sitjar83 Just want to clarify, we will support the performance side of the device, it is still a Kickstarter, The success is up to PGS.

    When the lead is followed up on, its evident the PGS is trying to mislead its backers, so much so that the source feels the need to clarify their statements.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store
    New Hardware and Product Design Project Guidelines

    • Product simulations are prohibited. Projects cannot simulate events to demonstrate what a product might do in the future. Products can only be shown performing actions that they’re able to perform in their current state of development.
    So what we just saw, we weren't supposed to see, at all. Got it.

    • Offering multiple quantities of a reward is prohibited. Hardware and Product Design projects can only offer rewards in single quantities or a sensible set (some items only make sense as a pair or as a kit of several items, for instance). The development of new products can be especially complex for creators and offering multiple quantities feels premature, and can imply that products are shrink-wrapped and ready to ship.
    Partly a strange rule, but not being strangers to breaking rules, PGS has it covered.
    10packlitepgs.png hctenpackpgs.png
    Multiple instances of offering multiple items.
    STAGE 5
    Terminal illness
    Not only does nothing come out of PGS, the info they share is impossible to double-check.
    So who is backing the PGS, and why is it on Kickstarter? Earlier news of signing a contract with investors, proves as empty as the promises of a prototype.
    The contract said to be signed with investors, was never shown, so surprise or no surprise, there are no investors:

    pgsvision.png

    "We hope to make"
    So after not starting the "technical part", waiting around for successions of failed Intel mobile chips, and making "prototypes" by removing the casing of existing tablets. "The investors" aren't actually in, they are out. Understandably so, why would even hypothetical investors be interested in that?

    PGS advertises a 1million AMD stretch-goal, talk to an Intel engineer, then remove that AMD stretchgoal.
    It is a guess on my part that this is why an Intel engineer finds the time to contact PGS.
    stretchgoalspgs.png

    PGS promises to show the engineering team in the next update.
    "Something it already has done "PGS LAB on July 2
    Of course. In one of the updates we will cover all the main members of our team."

    And while you can say PGS has collected 324000 dollar at this point, that is also all they have done. Everything may have started out with good intentions, sure, but its interesting how a company that has provided nothing, gets this close to being trusted with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Key members are posted in a update, it is for backers only. Sooo, how do you actually get any info prior to backing? I am, to put it lightly, not convinced having parted with 1$ to see said update.

    KS comments by PGS: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1606226331/comments
    STAGE 6 (8 july)
    Smoke and mirrored smoke
    "key members" are posted on the site. A team of 6, 2 of which are semi-relevant to actually making anything.
    In june it was 7

    keymemerspgs.png

    "We do have experienced engineers in our team which are capable of working on the PCB design, but now we have a lot of tasks to be done only once, which are not to be reworked later. The final PCB design depends on many factors, including the achieved Stretch Goals. At the current stage we don't think we should do things which should be inevitably reworked in the future."

    None of it has anything to do with basic PCB design https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/th...gpd-win-competitor.77205/page-18#post-1385356

    Nobody is working on PCB design, yet the project expects to deliver in record time.

    The CEO makes this remark in KS comments:

    Our dear backers, I have something important to tell you.

    Nearly 2 years ago the idea of PGS was born in my mind. I discussed with gamers around the world, discussed with another engineers, I've made hundreds of tests of reference devices. I created a compact team of people to whom I trust. We were driven by one goal and idea. The idea kept clarifying with details, something was added, something removed. I've visited tens of potential investors, the most of them were agree to invest the project only if we develop the device exceptionally on Android and if we significantly raise the cost. Such a perspective didn't satisfy me, I wanted to create not just a high quality device but also an affordable one, for many people could buy it, its cost would be fair and the device would have groundbreaking features. That's why we've come to Kickstarter.

    This funding platform isn't a goldmine for us, Kickstarter is a tool which is intended for the people all over the world to invest in creating the future and the truly revolutionary products.
    I'd like to say thank you to all of you who believe us, who also think that the future of portable devices will be driven by such things as PGS. The future is being built by your hands.

    Now a word for those who don't trust us and maliciously trying to humiliate and insult our project.

    Cancel your pledges and disappear please, this project is a clear SCAM. Isn't that what you think? We don't need any cent from you. Later, if we manage to release the prototype in time, do not return to our project. Cause anyway it's a SCAM for you and the prototype is nothing else but the case from 3D printer and the internals from another finished devices. After the campaign ends and some time passes, our YouTube channel will show the prototype based on a custom PCB. At that time do not make a preorder, don't give it a like, you just close the page and go away.

    At the beginning of the next year, when the backers will get the first devices and when the device starts selling on Amazon, do not buy it. It won't be that device you want to see and, by the way, it will be a fake.
    During these 7 days, day after day, instead of helping our guys developing the prototype, I keep convincing you, explaining, again and again convincing the skeptical ones. I'll remind, if you have just a bit of disbelief, feel free to cancel your pledge. You can play games on PS Vita and 3Ds (by the way, these are cool devices), at least you can play on Android portable devices, do not believe and do not wait the PGS.

    Even if after this post all backers go away and the campaign fails with 0 dollars, anyway we will finish and release the PGS. We will do it because we believe in PGS.
    That's all I had to say.

    "Now a word for those who don't trust us and maliciously trying to humiliate and insult our project."

    He comes this close to describing any real work:

    "Nearly 2 years ago the idea of PGS was born in my mind. I discussed with gamers around the world, discussed with another engineers, I've made hundreds of tests of reference devices. I created a compact team of people to whom I trust."
    Then

    "I've visited tens of potential investors, the most of them were agree to invest the project only if we develop the device exceptionally on Android and if we significantly raise the cost. Such a perspective didn't satisfy me, I wanted to create not just a high quality device but also an affordable one, for many people could buy it, its cost would be fair and the device would have groundbreaking features. That's why we've come to Kickstarter."

    April 19th, it was "Deen0X
    Is a kind of "Plan B" in case that inversors don´t get interest on the product"

    Who operates what, we don't know, but it sounds a lot better when you wrap it in.

    April 17th


    "The good news in that we have finally reached agreement with investors and signed a contract. Thanks to that, the basic price of PGS will start from 230$ as we planned before."

    The price hinges on there being investors, and now there are none.

    ED is answered this way in KS comments when he brings a ballpark figure calculation:

    @Michael[/USER] Mrozek (OpenPandora GmbH)
    Thank you for your advice. My experience as a portable devices engineer is really not as extensive as that of Pandora team, but we truly realize that expenses may exceed the revenue from Kickstarter. We are ready for that.

    Ready how?

    So who are these people
    alanwilliamspgs.png
    Is now "Community manager"
    STAGE 7 (9. July)
    Talk to the hand that feeds
    A new official PGS persona appears in the KS comment-section.
    The account Alex Arzh created Jul 2016, listed as a collaborator.

    "I'm a member of our team, my main work concludes in communication with press and internet resources and now I'm glade to communicate with you."

    So another human-relations persona, with no applicable skill or knowledge the actual product, or command of the English language.

    So how do you spin: (?)
    pgsproto.png
    "The current prototype is assembled from component devices such as Surfece, Ipega, Cube."

    These aren't component devices, these are ready-made products, butchering tablets to fake a prototype does not a prototype make.

    -The answer, you don't even try to spin it.

    "David, we will be happy to give an interview to a large gaming resource and to provide info about us and the PGS, but first we have to successfully finish this campaign, answer your questions and then it is likely that we will be invited for interviewing rather than us searching potential interviewers."

    $342,398 is riding on nothing, OK, so if you intend to not work on making the actual product, is there anything to suggest work has been done on anything surrounding it? Anything!?

    No, having a staff-member set up an American company and have her details on the campaign, is not inductive of anything. KS projects can not be started from Russia, so they had to do that.

    Other than her and https://www.xing.com/profile/Nadir_Mursalov?sc_o=p2786_s there is a big void

    So you have
    • shiny external CGI pictures
    • made up specs, and
    • dramatic video.
    • Incomplete 3D-printed case with fake front buttons, lacking nubs, sticks, lower screen, with a top screen that doesn't fit the upper bezel, shot from one direction, out of focus. It does not look like the renders, having ridges on the outer top side of the cabinet-part, and the lower part of the top screen bezels are not rounded.
    No evidence of the hinge operating
    No details about the hinge
    No details about screen cable. (this is a moving part)
    No contracts presented
    Patent claim not presented
    Staff personnel not verifiable
    Limited liability company has no connection to gaming devices, or anything
    No work done on preparing the case for production
    No internal details of case, waveguide for speakers, fastening for PCB-s etc.
    No evidence of custom "telescopic sticks"
    No evidence of custom cooling system
    No parts chain set up, nothing ordered
    No evidence of production facility
    No wireless communications tests conducted
    No wireless certifications
    No evidence of mother company
    No budget presented
    No evidence that PGS owns the tooling required to do electrical and mechanical engineering
    No people on staff to do the work
    No evidence of the semi-relevant personas on claimed staff-list having done any real or relevant work other than CGI
    No plan for how to pull it together. PCB-work is confirmed to not have begun, and the shipping schedule is made up on the spot.


    PGS earlier customer service is lamented in KS comments:

    "I'm sure I'm not the only person who felt bad about how the PGS team has unprofessionally handeled criticism and badly treated all of their backers by what you guys said, and I think we deserve a serious apology from whatever person posted that message."

    A forum-slide (posting multiple replies in single messages consecutively) was made by PGS this comment on KS:

    "@Aristide

    About Teclast X98 Plus II with regular price $355.59 being sold at $164.89 proving the feasibility of this project

    What you have pointed out is a flash fire-sale of a product that has a CPU that was available in products over a year ago. Overstocked by 44, faulty, who knows. You need to update the CPU, and at the very least pick a semi-comparable product, like a phone.

    A tablet has all the supporting structure set up around it in China already, so you need no custom parts or risk. It also has a very large body for dissipating heat and housing a reference PCB.

    So you are looking at,

    Custom,
    PCB design with the tools and people to do it, 4 case parts, CNC drawings and operator, hinge, heat-pipe cooling, telescopic sticks, battery, ports on three sides, front buttons, LR- buttons, D-pad, button-cluster, top screen cable, cameras wired into screen, front and rear camera light, waveguides for speakers, potential stretch-goal wireless charging.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

    Extra,
    Nubs, more costly and higher resolution front screen, rotation of screen output from that screen, bottom screen and digitizer, additional memory and storage, UFS storage, Cellular LTE-modem, GPS, 802.11ac Wi-Fi, speakers, rumble motor, additional colours, additional variants, additional packaging, Kickstarter fees, PayPal fees, lots of non-engineers on staff, sourcing components in low volume, building devices in low volume, taxes, postage-fees.

    [Licenses,
    Shipping batteries with products, HDMI-consortium, WiDi, Wi-Fi, Miracast, potential win10 upon release with min requirement of 1k units to get away from it now on products with a screen measuring less than 10 inches

    Litigation,
    Patent-trolling from MS for using Android, NOKIA's hinge patents, potential SONY PS trademark dispute, PGS name, PayPal freezing assets.

    Standards certifications,
    CE and equivalent for every standards body market. The same for everything that requires an antenna, this needs everything to be done first."

    Add to that, titanium case construction of 10 units.
    Extra pieces for lite model (which is not the same size)
    A t-shirt with every order, bulk production and cost added.

    No answer was provided, because PGS doesn't have an answer. It hasn't got the people, tools or money to do the custom bits.

    The long list of promises even got longer!:

    When someone asks why details of 8MP+5MP cameras were removed, it wasn't because PGS thought their budget needed cutbacks…

    Alec Arzh
    @Yingshuai Zhang
    As for the frontal camera, we haven't decided yet, but it is clear that the main camera will be Sony IMX258 with 13 megapixels.

    http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor1/img/products/ProductBrief_IMX258_20151015.pdf

    "It equips an electronic shutter with variable integration time. It operates with three power supply voltages: analog 2.7 V, digital 1.2 V and 1.8 V for input/output interface and achieves low power consumption."

    Routing cables over a moving part into the top screen just got that much more difficult.
    STAGE 8 (10. july)
    Cool down, I can't hear you. Is that you Nintendo?
    "Alec Arzh about
    The cooling system of the console represents a copper plate with heat conclusion to the case.
    The device will not overheat critically even if the case is fully plastic. Titanium is more heat conductive so there will be no device overheating. So no matter what metal is used."
    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities we can see:

    [​IMG]


    Titanium, pure 15.6[16]-19.0[15]-21.9[19][99]-22.5
    Titanium Alloy 5.8[100]

    And for example:
    Polyethylene High Density 0.42[6] - 0.51[6]

    Oh the feeble cries at physics…
    [​IMG]
    The problem, they are both isolators. So you need something like a aluminium (better per unit of weight) (200+) or copper (better) (300+) plate on the outside to couple it to the elements (air) for there to be any use in heat-pipe cooling. Not that that is "copper plate with heat conclusion to the case", which is worse, but nontheless meets an isolating challenge in titanium, and certainly plastic.

    This is a major engineering challenge, considering there is no space, this is where the battery has to be, and where your hands are.
    The problem? So what does titanium do that plastic doesn't, well its a fine conductor of something… Electricity!
    Full metal housing is a faraday cage. Blocking wireless signals in, and out.

    Not really ideal if your product is a cellphone with LTE, bluetooth and Wi-Fi…

    So are titanium-backers getting a plain tablet? They would be, if they were getting anything to begin with.
    PGS does not have the money or people to produce a regular aluminium case, much less one that successfully has openings or windows for antennas, or moves them to the outside, without shorting to ground.

    Producing a titanium case, for 8k dollar
    is… well…
    That anyone even suggested it, as a side project, and limited it to 10, so that it is a maximum of 8000 dollar minus Kickstarter and paypal fees, is as unfathomable as the people who backed it.

    The ease at which questions can be asked, is unrivalled only by the sheer unwillingness to do so. This shared dream is an orchestrated nightmare.

    First there was this update

    "everyone who has reserved the PGS Hardcore version, is free to choose the matrix type for additional device display: E-ink or IPS."

    Along with "
    Alec Arzh
    As for 3G, 4G frequencies there will be device versions for Asia, Europe and America, and they will cover all existing frequencies."

    Means there are now how many versions planned?

    Lite
    Hardcore Asia E-ink
    Hardcore Asia IPS
    Hardcore Europe E-ink
    Hardcore Europe IPS
    Hardcore America E-ink
    Hardcore America IPS

    7 versions! And that isn't even it… Multiply with the amount of colour-choices:

    White, Feminine pink, sky blue, masculine black, fancy yellow

    35 versions!!

    But wait, there is more.

    Titanium Asia E-ink
    Titanium Asia IPS
    Titanium Europe E-ink
    Titanium Europe IPS
    Titanium America E-ink
    Titanium America IPS

    41 versions!!! 41 versions to produce.


    Is that the most absurd it got today, nope, how about another update:

    "• Nintendo dual-screen game lovers can also be happy now, because all their emulators are supported by our console, allowing you to play games with fully functional gameplay on both screens of the console as in the original device."

    It's as if PGS took a look at what wasn't allowed, then planned everything according to that, intently breaking all of the rules. Remember this?

    "Misrepresentative support
    Projects cannot have related parties create an illusion of support."

    A little bit of insight for those not in the know. Does Nintendo have emulators of their own, yes. They are for game-development. As I'm sure will be very clear in the terms, should you ever be granted rights to buy a license to use one.

    As for other emulators, those that Nintendo are famous for going after. Yes, while in some countries legal to use for your own games, in no known universe can you claim Nintendo supplied them and that your console has support from Nintendo for running them. Rounding it off with saying it is a fully functional replica of the original device, classic.
    Nintendo owns patents for the DS-line of handhelds, the chance PGS was getting away with replicating their form, questionable, the chance now, n-o-n-e. Nintendo litigation in 3-2-1…

    Alec Arzh
    "We appreciate the extensive knowledge of our backers, and here we've made a mistake.
    It doesn't matter what material the case consists of, the main point is that it is enough to put a copper plate on the chip to prevent heating. As an example, in tablets the chip is set without direct contact with surfaces."
    Mistakes were made. Mistakes keep being made.

    You would think basic material knowledge was a requirement for making products of this type (it is)
    It does matter what the case consists of, because if it isolates heat from escaping, you have an oven.
    For low powered devices, that may be the case, but not so for high-powered ones. Putting a copper plate on the chip doesn't prevent anything, first you need a layer of conductivity between the two, but that is another matter. If you succeed at transporting heat away from the chip, you are still inside the box, wedged between either a battery, or a screen.

    Speaking of surfaces, the Microsoft Surface 3, which PGS used to "build" a prototype, does have shim-type cooling [​IMG]
    Did the original tablet overheat, yes.

    Alec Arzh
    "We'll solve these issues anyway, it is not a big problem to dissipate 2 watts. Assuming that the limited titanium series of 10 pieces will be made and tested by hand."

    Dissipating 2 Watts is a huge problem. And its not just that, its the memory, the cellular/LTE-modem, the battery, and the secondary screen.

    I bet the backers of titanium models did so on the assumption that they would be made… Seeing as the regular plastic models have worse properties, yeah…

    We see how one would be deluded into thinking this is easy by a previous PGS KS comment:

    Alec Arzh
    "Tests show that, even in plastic case while using the radiator the processor doesn't undergo throttling when loaded."

    No tests like that from the PGS are currently available to the public, they are for the purpose of being able to gauge test-methodology, made up.
    All current atoms do scaling, which will take it down to abysmal levels of performance before throttling to protect the CPU.

    We are however back to radiator, transporting heat via liquid or gas. Kinda like Microsoft opted for with the surface 4 pro, and Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL.

    So just because someone else is able to do it, and you _may_ be able to do it, and _may_ be able to make it yourself, do you have a plan for ramping up the production of a micro-radiator into production levels? You will not find something available for purchase that just magically fits the very cramped and quirky dimensions you are working with.

    It may be that the "tests" are of the "prototype" display.

    So why isn't a 3D-printed case with one board in it that someone else made, open to the elements because where the analogue sticks should be, there are huge gaping holes instead, a fair comparison to a jam-packed case with additional and sandwiched heat-producers such as a battery and a secondary screen?

    All the reasons, all of them.

    Edit: Backers are voting on d-pad designs. This should alert people to how the design isn't already fixed.

    What it does is two things, people are concerned with something other than the reality of the project. Consider this:
    Somehow a company that hasn't _made_ any d-pad designs, should supposedly be able to come up with a totally different one that works at this stage.

    The current d-pad and buttonclistered exists in rendered and mockup 3D-printed form. No analogue sticks have been shown.
    http://i.imgur.com/B5j3YlQ.jpg is the alternative d-pad. It looks to be a analogue stick, on a 8way digital controller.
    Something that didn't work on the GP2X, at-least there it was in the right place…

    This is where it was at a while ago:
    While still clueless about game-control-ergonomics, this gives PGS an avenue to perform in the only venue it knows how, CGI. It looks like something is happening, and it gives PGS an opportunity to stall. If an alternative version wins the vote, the schedule can even be postponed to buy time.

    This becomes relevant again:

    "We do have experienced engineers in our team which are capable of working on the PCB design, but now we have a lot of tasks to be done only once, which are not to be reworked later. The final PCB design depends on many factors, including the achieved Stretch Goals. At the current stage we don't think we should do things which should be inevitably reworked in the future."

    PGS doesn't think it should start work on the PCB, but instead throws a vote to re-do a d-pad it doesn't have.
    STAGE 9 (11 July)
    Would you like some marketing with that nonsense?
    Alex Arzh
    "Yes, the E-Ink will work in Windows as an additional display, the screen refresh rate will be lower, but this is quite enough to watch a video and internet surfing"

    Are you sure that is not a stretch, it looks like a stretch.
    pgsstretch.png

    Alex Arzh
    "@Circle Chen
    Speaking about the 2nd screen, you are absolutely right, the E-Ink frame rate is low and not sufficient for watching videos and other rapidly changing graphics. So we give backers an option to select either IPS or E-Ink for the 2nd display. "

    PGS tries to give us an idea that at-least one of two displays in the IPS variant will have lackluster brightness.
    resolutionpgs.png

    Wow, look at the perceived difference in brightness, look at the example of pixellation, this is what dishonest marketing looks like. It's so real. PGS doesn't know what it is selling, but it knows how to lie about it.

    screenspgs.png

    IPS, as in in plane switching? As in not as advertised?
    When it isn't advertising Amoled with the colour blue, and to be vastly superior, PGS can't decide if the primary display is AMOLED or not.

    (update: "Alec Arzh July 11

    AMOLED for PGS Hardcore is confirmed."

    "We'll solve these issues anyway, it is not a big problem to dissipate 2 watts.
    to
    "In fact, we are making a lot of effort to dissipate 2.2 watts of heat, preventing SoC burn and case melting, which is quite difficult but we have managed to do it."

    The SoC won't melt due to thermal protection, so the case wouldn't melt. And also it isn't 2.2 W, which should give some level of insight into PGS ability to have "managed to do it" and why there is zero proof presented of that claim.

    Speaking of insight, where did the 2W come from? That is the SDP from, http://ark.intel.com/products/93362/Intel-Atom-x7-Z8750-Processor-2M-Cache-up-to-2_56-GHz and it is detailed thus:
    [/quote]
    Scenario Design Power (SDP) is an additional thermal reference point meant to represent thermally relevant device usage in real-world environmental scenarios. It balances performance and power requirements across system workloads to represent real-world power usage. Reference product technical documentation for full power specifications.[/quote]
    PGS claims to have solved a problem it can't describe, without doing any of the work required…

    Package Size 17mm x 17mm Sockets Supported UTFCBGA1380 This is not easily soldered, one could bring into question how PGS sees getting it done. Since the tools required to do it are ludicrously expensive, where are they?

    Alexander Alec Arzh July 11
    "
    @Philip Jones
    Philip, many thanks for your warning, we will thoroughly and carefully choose a Chinese production partner to cooperate with. "

    Nowhere. PGS does not have a production partner.

    "Creator PGS LAB on July 2
    @Jack Pettman
    The device supports memory cards with a capacity of up to 256gb."
    sdstoragepgs.png
    blocksrampgs.png
    That would be execution units, and still GB. Byte, not bit. But this time GiB if you want to be precise.
    SDHC is limited to 32GB and SDXC to 2048GB, guessing they tried to describe the size currently available.
    16corespgs.png
    But it is totally 16 of something. Yes, but not cores. It is also, not a GPU, but a IGP. We digress. The Z8750 has HD Graphics 405, just in case you wanted some information. It is a rebrand of the 400 for the D-stepping of the 8700, which is what the 8750 is.

    PGS plans to do an apollo lake launch, something the GPD people are not doing, because they understand it will not come in the same variants as Cherry Trail-T. Why the confusion?

    "Aneudi Rosado on July 2
    You guys probably know about the GPD WIN. The GPD team is having problem getting the supply of Z8550 chips. Did you guys secure the Z8750 chips from Intel, because there are some rumors that they are no longer producing those new chip versions?
    PGS LAB on July 2"

    "Pablo Emilio Acevedo Díaz on July 2

    2. About the processor. There have been rumors about the production of the Atom line being discontinued, so you should have secured the processors somehow, right? "

    "Creator PGS LAB on July 2
    @Aneudi Rosado
    Intel closed only X5 and X7 series of Atom (z8550 = X5, z8750=X7)
    @Pablo Emilio Acevedo Díaz
    2. Intel closed only X5 and X7 series of Atom

    It would appear PGS creator doesn't understand the difference between cancellation and limited production run. Nor what happened to the future apollo lake generation.

    storagepgs.png
    Let's see what PGS has to say:

    Creator PGS LAB on July 1

    "
    \\ why use SSD when you can use Pcie or M.2 storage?"
    In the old version of our device will be used ZFS memory. The speed is equal to a standard SSD drives."

    ZFS is a filesystem, try again. This time with some help from the audience:

    Creator PGS LAB July 6
    @Gov
    That's right, the decision has been made to use UFS memory instead of SSID. There will be no difference in speed. We can't say for sure how much the AMD solution may be more efficient than that of Intel, considering our heat solution scheme. But as for GPU part, we may surely say that it will be more efficient. It may be up to 20, 50, or even 100% more efficient. But we must realize that such solution would be more expensive for us. That's why we have set a quite high level of funding for achieving this Goal.

    SSID? Service Set IDentifier. Come on, it was right there, for the taking. Get it right.

    Creator PGS LAB July 7
    "@alcaina7
    The M2 SSD is less suitable for our device than UFC due to the minimal case size. "

    UFC is a commercial fighting circuit, not quite the droids we were looking for.

    pgssize.png
    Pardon my ignorance, that is minimal. 1.8mm…

    Ong TH 4 days ago
    @PGS LAB
    "Think I saw that you mentioned you won't be using M2.SATA but UFS for storage, I just saw a article about UFS 2.0
    - Based on the UFS 2.0 standard and compatible with the UFS HCI 2.0 standard
    - Supports MIPI M-PHY HS-Gear3, HS-Gear2 (optional), and PWM-Gear1
    - A detailed mechanical definition is defined by the JEDEC MO-320 outline
    - Features common to embedded UFS 2.0 devices:
    - Support for multiple logical units, each with configurable characteristics
    - Reliable write and background operations
    - Secure operations such as purge and erase to enhance data security
    - Includes write protection options, including permanent and power-on write protection
    - Provides task management and power management functionality
    -Boot capability NOT supported at this time

    Especially the last point, "Boot capability NOT supported at this time", how confident you are in making a switch to UFS ?"

    Especially that last point was never answered.
    https://www.jedec.org/news/pressrel...sal-flash-storage-ufs-removable-card-standard

    I haven't been able to find any update on the matter. PGS has yet to prove you can boot from UFS at all.

    Telescopic sticks, meaning retractable joysticks, also seem a bit unproven. Can the PGS make it happen? Do they click?

    trackpointpgs.png
    Oh I see. Its technology licensed from lenovo, which owns the name TrackPoint® http://www.lenovo.com/legal/copytrade.html Which also seem to own the patent for it http://www.google.com/patents/US6115030 good stuff.

    Alexander Alec Arzh 11.july
    "We understand that using telescopic retractable sticks may be an issue. But only in case it turns out to be impossible technically we may give up with this idea. And instead using a mechanism similar to 3Ds. Until that we'll try hard to implement the retractable mechanism."

    Retractable or not, that's the same thing, US6115030 "For example, the TrackPoint device may be utilized in a wired or wireless gaming device such as those manufactured by the Sony, Sega and Nintendo companies." So at-least you won't have to re-do that part of the development.

    Did you know PGS promises to ship a T-shirt with every order, an item it thinks is worth 30$. Guess that means bulk-production of t-shirts added to the list of duties, and another expenditure on the long list of costly promises.
    tshirtpgs.png
    STAGE 10 (12. July)
    Missing a 4th wall, it's all acting up
    The new persona, "Alexander" Alec Arzh
    Hasn't actually backed the project, ok. And the account is brand new…
    (Backed 0 projects · Joined Jul 2016)

    First comment coincides with Nadir leaving the comment section, supposedly for China.

    Update: Later on: "
    Alec Arzh Alexander posted
    @nexranger
    I've been working in the project since March. And I'm wholeheartedly dedicated to our project. Such portable console is also my dream. If you want more details why can't you google my nickname? I have nothing to hide."

    Sharing a blatant disregard for the English language, Alec Arzh has this to say in his first KS comment:

    "Since the beginning of the campaign our team has been so hardly working that we were limited in time communicating with you, but from now on I'm fully dedicated to you."

    Hardly working…

    Leading the way in ways not to utilize the English language, introducing:
    We dub thee 'Alan Williams', was product designer, then all of a sudden project manager. According to PGS something that has its rational explanation in him doing both. But designing the PGS was somehow less worthy of mention than "being the face of PGS".

    So what did Alec Arzh do before? We don't know. What do they all do?

    A set-list of key-members with an alarming amount of managers. Engineers plural.
    So what do they seem to have in common; doing unrelated stuff.

    Lola Kochetkova, has a favourite wallpaper, and it is this one. Actress
    lola.jpeg
    Supposedly danced at the Bolshoi
    Artur Krants, when not wearing his disguise, busy making sure his name returns no hits and that you can't find either of his two projects…
    Emanuel Johnson part-time nigerian scam? http://www.hoax-slayer.com/johnson-emmanuel.shtml
    Sergei Kirimov, battling the inconsistencies of being a Japanese born in Japan and having a Russian name.
    Alan Williams, being Kostas Lucky. Managing communities and designing hardware doesn't strictly require a
    stage-name. Modelling-work or faking your name though.
    KostasLuckypgs.png
    This places them together over half a year ago,
    and all-though the number of reported employees fluctuates. At one point it was 14:
    14people.png
    So who did they lose?
    Remember the people who just couldn't believe handheld games were possible?
    what1.png I speak on behalf of a objective and individual computer user, but I work for PGS.
    what2.png What, me too! But that is like a minute into the future, of a past that never happened…
    what3.png OOooomm, do you two notice that there is an epistemological problem here?
    Surely we can't all be presented as both team-members and the general public.

    PGS misrepresents the amount and the people that work for them.
    From the people who are reported to work there now:

    No evidence of any progress made the last 6 months.
    (Actually nothing beyond the ability of a CGI-artist.)
    With a lot of dreaming before and after, and 8 months to go till delivery, that doesn't look like something worthy of PR-work, or money…

    Update: In addition to being Kostas Lucky, Alan is also Kostas Valov
    kostasvalov.png
    His real name is said to be "Konstantin Valos", and he is confirmed as Konstantin with this message:
    Alec Arzh July 12

    "@Nofear2plus
    Actually, Alan's true name is Konstantin. And he is indeed our community manager. He is responsible for our participation in social networks and also he was in touch with the media previously. We apologize that we had to change his data. As most of you may know, currently we have complicated political situation in Russia, and Alan (it's his new name, previously Konstantin) is going to migrate to the USA for permanent living. He wants to prevent his real personal data to leak into the media. It may lead to issues with Alan's preparing for migration. We are truly hope for your understanding.
    If some backers wish to communicate with team members personally, feel free to write in private chat, we can provide the contacts, it is not a secret."

    If your name is "Konstantin", you don't have a new name, you may have a nickname, or a cover-name. For those actually aware of the political situation in Russia, you can't just emigrate from Russia to the US based on the assumption that details like these won't be found, by the powers to be in either country. They too don't accept nonsense. Lola Kochetkova, the supposedly American citizen, has no problems working in Russia under her real name. Changing your name for the potential overseas job opportunity is both bad, and would actually benefit someone trying to emigrate. If a secret is revealed, it is no longer a secret, and the "let me pass the phone to our manager"-routine isn't going to work.

    But aren't we, missing something, what can you do with that sort of personnel?

    Nadir Mursalov, between fruitlessly talking to investors and testing tablets, supposedly advertisement according to those with accounts to see the full profile on https://www.xing.com/profile/Nadir_Mursalov?sc_o=p2786_s
    You may have not seen him in the video, because, The "CEO" of the company is not in the Kickstarter video.

    "@Michael Mrozek (OpenPandora GmbH)
    Thank you for your advice. My experience as a portable devices engineer is really not as extensive as that of Pandora team, but we truly realize that expenses may exceed the revenue from Kickstarter. We are ready for that."

    Short of a ploy, or a plot, you can't just calculate away time for design, prototyping, trial-runs, production, assembly, shipping etc etc.

    One could sum up overall material cost per unit. But its some kind of math that others don't have access to. Doing low volumes is expensive, even if nobody on your production-line is over 7 years old.

    It means, compared to anyone, greater variety in produced goods, lower production-cost, more exclusive material-choice, all without the required skills or equipment.

    Then there was this
    Alec Arzh July 12
    "@Alice Alice, as soon as we have drawings/sketches of the internal console design, we'll share it with the community."

    There are no drawings of the internals.


    There is no plan, it is up for debate, and it is falling apart.

    Jul 12 2016 on Portable Console for PC games - PGS

    Short of real news, there was this update:

    Misleadingly named: "The way to increase the Atom Z87XX performance by 50% has been found"

    First of all, there is no way to just increase by half. It would be overclocking, and that also increases a lot of heat at those figures.

    >we've found the way to retrieve about 50% additional performance
    So it was lost in the first place.

    >Meanwhile, Nadir locked with test samples in his office 3 days ago and said not to disturb him.
    >Today Nadir returned to us and he was really excited about what he has found. Here what he states:

    So he has been in your office, in Russia, for 3 days, working, when this was said 4 days ago

    Alec Arzh 4 days ago

    "Nadir is currently in China for negotiating with our contractors and some potential investors. Man, I guess he works for 24 hours... "

    Not only is the canon about this person written in a religious style, he seems omnipotent!
    The answer:

    PGS LAB
    @Hasan Kemik
    "The news published in the update was translated only today"

    That's not what translation is, nor does it actually make sense. Nadir was very able to post before, and very capable of posting after. The non-translated "Man, I guess he works for 24 hours..." gives it away.
    There is no PGS lab.
    There also isn't any plane-ticket.


    The update continues:

    >It's already several days that I've been testing Voyo V3 and Surface 3 mainboards. In both cases the 4GB
    >dual-channel RAM was used. There were thousands of tests, hundreds of combinations of BIOS settings.
    >And I've come to interesting results:
    Tests of someone else's product, over a year old, with a CPU you aren't using, is not interesting, nor relevant.

    >Fact 1: Maximum z8700 CPU frequency is 2.4 GHz (z8750 is 2.56 GHz). Maximum z8700 GPU frequency is 600 MHz.
    You could save yourself the time and check that in Intels brief if you are going to trust their tools anyhow. You don't have the standalone equipment, nor the platform to measure that. It is still a IGP.

    >Fact 2: The Surface 3 which we were using to test performance so far, almost immediately after the game launch reduces the CPU >frequency to 0.8-1.1 GHz and GPU frequency to 380-420 MHz.
    You were using it to fake a prototype, there is a difference. There are plenty of tests of this very phenomenon available. Same tablet.

    >Fact 3: Voyo V3 almost immediately after the game launch reduces CPU freq. to 0.6-0.8 GHz and GPU freq. to 200 MHz.
    These things are not game-consoles. The boost frequencies are there to speed up regular tasks, not run permanently.

    >Fact 4: The above mentioned facts take place due to the SoC integrated system for power saving and heat protection.
    If for power saving, why not turn scaling off, or to a more aggressive profile? There is any amount of things to do to not save power, a tablet operating at out-of-the-box config is not one of them.

    >Fact 5: Disabling this protection in BIOS led to SoC overheating after some time.
    So just protection then. Fact 5 invalidates the hypothesis of Fact 4.

    >Fact 6: Intentional cooling the SoC by a copper radiator and tiny fan led to significant temperature decrease. In this >case the CPU and GPU frequencies stay in fixed values of 2.4 GHz and 600 MHz respectively.
    Basic knowledge is the result of your tests?

    >Fact 7: Without using the cooling fan, when only the radiator is present, we get the performance the same as we >retrieved from Surface 3 tests. It is quite a decent performance which is sufficient for comfortable gaming the most PC >games in HD resolution.
    More cooling, better results? Are you trying to improve the Surface 3?

    >Fact 8: We can integrate a tiny cooling fan into Hardcore version, sacrificing the additional speakers. The same fan as >in Fujitsu F07C. It is very silent, tiny and efficient, it produces almost no sound and it is activated only when enabling >the "PERFORMANCE" mode. It can give us about 50% additional performance in games. And this is very cool!
    Fan efficiency increases with size, relevant to the noise it produces.

    >What do you think?
    I know a fan in a portable console is garbage, uses more power, and is a part that will fail over time. If this is thousands of tests, not a single one of them was relevant, and you have wasted your time.
    Picking components out of other peoples products, in this case a 2011 umpc-type device from fujitsu, is not how you source components for yourselves. The fan and operation of a desktop OS with touchscreen can be seen here https://www.youtube.com/embed/lXJinWfQ_9k

    PGS looks to end the day in the red.
    kicktraqpgs.png
    (License of image: CC-BY-NC 3.0 by kicktraq)
    And then it broke the scale:
    scalepgs.png
    pgsmelting.png
    Stage 11 (13 July)
    Damage control to Major Tom
    We know the logo was done at least 9 months ago, an interesting place to start, but nonetheless,

    The video was shot (as detailed in stage 10) at least 6 months ago,
    while it doesn't even have the head engineer, Nadir, in it, it also doesn't have a lot of other things.

    Through a succession of faked prototypes, we have seen enough claims and promises for them to be inconsistent with each-other, but nothing more.

    Nevermind a fan + heat-sink not being a heat-pipe system, and taking three whole days to come up with. Nevermind it not being waterproof, when that is the 450000$ stretch-goal. Those are not the type of problems PGS has right now, and as of late it looks removal of the 350000$ coloured e-ink stretch-goal is the next announcement to be made.

    Alec Arzh July 13:

    "…
    I don't think it is a good idea to aggravate the situation now, when we are working hard on developing the PGS. Sure, you may wait for a retail version, but you also can support us now and stimulate the process of development. We have now 17 days to prove you that we can succeed in our work. You have 17 days to watch the process, maybe it is worth waiting. We are going to achieve a lot over the remaining time."

    The way everyone else sees this, and the promises that were made, PGS is now on -12 days (and counting) of announcing a working prototype.

    And as with unveiling an announced secret, you also cant promise on a broken promise.

    All the information is misleading, so consistently so that also details that should have been clear are amiss.
    If you can't make your information clear, have a FAQ as a last resort. Some have asked for it, it has been promised, and in true PGS fashion that means 'sometime' with a rather unclear schedule. But now it is clearly stated for release tomorrow.

    Here we see him putting to use le olde imac that their russian-named japanese born engineer _definitely_ isn't using.

    damagecontrolol.jpg

    Alec Arzh 13 July

    "@nexranger @Backers
    FAQ WILL BE FINISHED TOMORROW."

    At least one question that will not be answered therein:

    Nipnap 12 July

    "How do the chopsticks in the CG shot at 0:40 relate to your vision for this product?"

    Here are some other reactions to PGS operations:


    Watching the first part of the video is also relevant to PGS, as you will find the FTC is not accepting of giving sentiment on part of a seemingly unrelated party without disclosing compensation for doing so.

    Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising

    16 CFR 255

    §255.5 Disclosure of material connections.
    When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed.

    Update:
    And with yet another a photorealistic rendering, PGS takes to twitter to announce yet another expense:

    "We'll give 15000 dollars to an indie game developer. The winner will be chosen by community. /goo.gl/1OV1QJ"

    The link provided goes to their blog which states:
    "Maybe you are that developer who wants to earn money and become a part of the PGS team? If yes, let's have a deal."
    PGS advertises giving away money, but it has a clause requiring you to join their team.
    "Just create an indie game and there's a chance it will be preinstalled on every sold PGS."
    "Indie giveaway" has a clause saying PGS gets to decide if it wants to license your game.
    Soon after the start of sales we will help you post this game in Steam, where it becomes available for everyone to purchase. We will accept applications until the end of December. The winner will be chosen by voting in our community.
    Deal date is set for a date long after their Kickstarter closes.
    braidpgs.jpg
    Enjoyers of the splendid game Braid, might recognize the game used for this presentation.
    We wonder what the creator of the game has to say about it…

    "I have never heard of this project!" -Jonathan Blow

    This was also tweeted:
    nanananapgs.jpg
    "http://youtu.be/qjkFttOpyK0 - PGS - Tested games - Playable in HD #pgs #pgslab #kickstarter"

    PGS advertises the steam platform and the Batman game, on a faked render.

    Then this video was posted, with the introduction
    "We are glad to present you a video cut from trailers of games which were tested on the PGS prototype. All tested games run smoothly in HD resolution."


    One would feel the need to bring into question the validity of these claims, but luckily the video makes its intentions loud and clear:

    [X] Dramatic piano music
    [ ] Sincerity
    [X] Watermarks from videos by other youtube channels…
    watermarkpgs.png
    That is still footage from CS:GO supposedly running on the PGS, and this is the original video it is from
    https://youtu.be/ljUByjCvKT0?t=23s

    "They used without my permission my video footage. Please report the video because I think it is a scam."
    -Throneful, the person operating KroneVideoGames

    A fake render for a non-licensed game, linking to stolen content of a game it never ran.
    It is the Matryoshka of fakes! The closest PGS gets to telling the truth is showing actual gameplay conducted on a totally different machine in a video it stole.

    And while the night is young, it is still not too late for fails. The FAQ airs, from the contents of which, one can deem, prematurely:

    Are you planning to provide some new project info until the end of the campaign?

    "Yes, we are currently working on an improved prototype version. We'll do our best to show it to you until the end of July."

    How convenient, that is exactly when the campaign ends! If you mean to say that:
    Project hinges on backers forgetting to cancel their pledge the last day. and
    PGS plans to not show a slither of evidence suggesting they are developing anything. You have understood this premise.

    Why particularly the Atom, not Qualcomm or Tegra?

    "Because neither Qualcomm nor Tegra are compatible with x86 architecture, they are not intended to be used with desktop OSes."

    Linux|GNU, the desktop OS used to write this very post, does very much run on pretty much every other architecture there is. I have personally run it on Tegra hardware.

    Is it possible to install Linux on PGS?

    "You can install any OS which expects the component drivers."

    So they have heard of it, and while maybe aware of the irony in that the (supposedly) pre-installed Android OS runs the Linux kernel, have no clue about how it works.

    Have you already started working on the PCB design? If no, then why?

    "Depending on the achieved Stretch Goals, the final PCB design may vary significantly. We'll start the design work once the Kickstart campaign ends."

    There will not be a prototype. Design has not started, and will not start before it's too late for recourse.

    ED lays down the closing comments on this project in unusually direct form.

    Day closes at -3166$
    Stage 12 14 July
    Even Comical Ali feels the fatigue of war.
    We have not seen any news since the campaign begun, backers are angry.
    To the tune of -8500$ before days end. It looks like today could be another record day.
    That puts the total at 343412$, far short of the already promised stretch-goal of providing optional coloured e-ink screens.
    The titanium tier, which was at 9/10, is now at 1/10. Remarkably, the early bird hardcore model, remains full.
    Its not because people aren't leaving it, they are. But as they do, new or higher tiered backers move in.
    This is something that effectively takes margins out of the PGS pocket. The same product offered at a lower tier is less profitable, and as the demographic moves towards it, there is a loss. There is also the seemingly lucrative notion of perception, if you didn't know the whole thing was losing money, it would still appear as if it was popular.
    But still many want to believe, beyond having lost all real hope. They let their voices be heard, and come up with ultimatums. It's almost as if they want to be mislead better.

    First there is an update on running a z8700 with and without heatsink. Best wishes, The PGS Lab Team.
    As if running benches on other peoples products, in conditions unknown, of a SoC you arent using, is indicative of anything, besides fraud that is.

    We learn that broken test-methology triggers the Evildragon.

    This is a set of videos of a real surface 3 running games, which both invalidates PGS claims from yesterday, and shows how free-air tests, aren't the same as doing nothing when its enclosed in a box…

    In this update the distortion about Intel support is maintained.
    "Intel kindly offered us their support in the development of our console, which allows us to make it even more powerful by using special versions of drivers and probable overclocking of the CPU" As if Intel is _ever_ going to allow that. As if PGS are even capable or putting together even stolen components and pulling it off.

    We see the word "free" used about Windows 10, and Android.
    al2kq4p-460sa.gif
    If you don't think windows 10, and android 6 constitutes a service that monetizes itself, you are not only the product, but also the tool that instruments bulk and targeted surveillance for profit.


    This is a clear violation of FTC
    Use of the Word “Free” and Similar Representations
    16 CFR Part 251
    "(b) Meaning of “Free”. (1) The public understands that, except in the case of introductory offers in connection with the sale of a product or service (See paragraph (f) of this section), an offer of “Free” merchandise or service is based upon a regular price for the merchandise or service which must be purchased by consumers in order to avail themselves of that which is represented to be “Free”. In other words, when the purchaser is told that an article is “Free” to him if another article is purchased, the word “Free” indicates that he is paying nothing for that article and no more than the regular price for the other. Thus, a purchaser has a right to believe that the merchant will not directly and immediately recover, in whole or in part, the cost of the free merchandise or service by marking up the price of the article which must be purchased, by the substitution of inferior merchandise or service, or otherwise."

    and just to be clear:

    "(f) Introductory offers. (1) No “Free” offer should be made in connection with the introduction of a new product or service offered for sale at a specified price unless the offeror expects, in good faith, to discontinue the offer after a limited time and to commence selling the product or service promoted, separately, at the same price at which it was promoted with the “Free” offer."

    It all seems abusive, and maybe it is. Faced with being called out, some resort to believing harder, dismissing more shrewdly. And PGS are, when not axing a hole in the boat, are shifting water not over the side, but back into the boat.
    roadmappgs.png
    The new "prototype" is going to be based on the Voyo V3. Not a tablet this time, but a stand-alone computer.
    It is a step back, but in the same wrong direction, when the option to run away and forget it all was the preferable move.

    You would need a battery, and the circuitry for it, and also a plan besides making a better 3D-printed case to hide it in.
    You could say a projects credentials are tarnished by failing a Kickstarter, but with this, the momentum and the lies that sent it going, can not be repeated. Hopefully not by anyone, because Kickstarter and others have something to learn.

    Maybe we should all learn something, I certainly learnt a lot.
    Update: Day closes at a record -10916$
    Stage 13 15-16 July
    Accused of fraud, guilty of satire.
    PGS LAB Creator 15 July

    @Gr8one
    "We often hear this nonsense. But you're wrong. Let us turn to Wikipedia:
    A prototype is an early sample, model, or release of a product built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from.
    So, it is a prototype. Early, basic, but true prototype."

    This shill tactic of arguing pedantry, does not make the prototype real.

    PGS LAB Creator 15 July

    @Jack Herod
    "We will try to show the new prototype before the end of the campaign. Now we're working on it. We understand how important it is for us."

    If your projects very existence is threatened by "something", what would another fake prototype do to fix that? The only thing prototyped is a device made to misguide trust.

    Following a trend of dubious authenticy on behalf of those who speak on behalf of PGS, now there are even some doubt as to the people speaking favourably about PGS.

    The occasion is all the negative, but truthful sentiment and facts brough up about PGS in the latest days and weeks before. We see people with "american" names, speaking broken English, having in common new or recent account, with no activity. What activity there is, is that of backing project that dont meet their goals, and thus, cost nothing but make it seem as if its a regular account.

    Then there is the notion that these accounts are to do with GPD, acting out an official strategy of "anti-advertising". That critique is put forth by GPD officially, a party that has in the past called backers voicing concern "haters". At a point in time when all this fakenicking started. It has now gone full circle, and then some.

    Excellent expert knows where it's at. Going full circle, where others get dizzy:

    Excellent Expert 16 July
    "Do not give attentions to this trolls who pray to destroy marvelous PGS campaign. They want to make this a Coup! They will only fail as they was in Turkey!! It is conspiracy of the new order! I read plans of theirs in the protocols!

    They only wish to promote their GirlyPortableDevice! That company have not prototype, they will be exposed for the cheats that they is. PGS, thank you for threaten grave danger to all who send propaganda in comments. As brave man said once "The truth is that men are tired of liberty."

    Take your time PGS. Lock Nadir in office. Soon he will have marvelous device fitting of Cossack peoples."

    jack just now
    Wow, someone with no other backing history and a shaky grasp of English is really excited about PGS! I'm shocked!

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 22 hours ago
    @Gr8one
    "We are really working now. After the campaign ends things will go faster as we will start working with many other experts (partner company), which have a lot of expertise and resources in engineering.
    Also keep in mind that this project is safe and backers shouldn't be afraid losing their money. We've already got all agreements according to which the investing side covers all risks and expenses. Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part.
    We hope for your understanding the situation.
    The main task of our team before working with the manufacturing factory is to deliver you the concept and to prove that this idea is worth implementing. We've done it, even in this raw form. After this campaign ends the development of internals of finished device will be a responsibility of a large team of professional engineers (much larger than now), while we will thoroughly monitor the quality of the process."
    After failing to represent themselves in a honest way, PGS admits they are in it to try and dupe others, and keep misrepresenting themselves, now only as others.

    Its not just that they are bad at what they are supposed to do, they are awful at what they attempt to do too. There is still no contract, we know there isn't. PGS is predictable down to what is the most convenient lie at the time, not consistent over time.

    If someone arent "really working", why would they need to convince people they are. In the period they supposedly were, they tried to lie about being capable and working on internals. Then that wasnt true, and they were clueless.
    Now they supposedly can call in the help of a larger team, which they cant afford, and they are talking about contracts, which they dont have.

    "Even if we manage to produce the device which would be so much high quality that its cost exceeds the funds from backers, we will do it anyway and there will be no issues in financial part."
    PGS has no oversight of costs, nor does it know what a contract is. It promises gold, but cant show evidence of even coal. The current PGS team cant oversee the process, because that requires technical insight. They can't even find the hilarious flaws in what they themselves are doing.

    PGS LAB Creator 23 minutes ago

    "Hello our dear backers!

    I am here with you again. Today I returned back from China and I have something to share with you."
    This is the second trip to China without any proof.


    "The first and the most important. We have signed the contract for developing and manufacturing our devices by one of the leading China\Taiwan microelectronics manufacturers."
    This is not the first claimed contract.

    "Under our thorough control, according to our requirements and with our help they will develop both versions of PGS, as well as be responsible for warranty and post-warranty services. They will also take care of manufacturing the main accessories. Later I will share more details about our partner."
    Nobody can produce the PGS with any amount of help, it has an impossible hinge.

    "Secondly. I've already told you about it, but many of you don't know. We've got an agreement with our investment fund."
    This is the first news, but again, no proof.

    "The agreement comes into force in case of successful Kickstarter campaign. The investing side will be obligated to cover all expenses on production line, producing starting batches of devices, warranty and also other expenses related with the business. Currently I'm negotiating about creating a mini-fund which will ensure the cash back for every backer on this Kickstarter campaign who invested the money, in case the backer changes his mind about having PGS before the official release. I'll try to provide you such opportunity."
    Given the ability to construct any reality, but not prove anything or be truthful about the one he is in, Nadir came up with this. No proof.

    "To sum it up, the future of the PGS is in safety. The device will make a revolution in portable gaming no matter what our haters and enemies do."
    If by successful Kickstarter, you meant on losing money every day, then yes, the future of PGS looks bright.


    "Third. About our foes. In China I was monitoring the mail, private messages on KS, comments on KS, on YouTube, on Twitter, Instagram, even some forums."
    Lets not forget websites, websites PGS misrepresents support with, like it tried to do, and does in other fora. Everyone sees through it.

    "I've also noticed the unpleasant situation with the KS funding in recent days. Having analyzed the content, messages and comments with our colleagues I've come to a conclusion that we are being attacked by competitors, it's a massive spam attack."
    No, its a meteor of fails hitting the internet and causing an effect.

    "There are several people day after day are trying to blacken us."
    Its either a massive spam attack, or a directed ploy. Notice there is zero mention of _what_ is being said.

    "Not only the human resources are used, even spam auto-generating systems work. For instance, our YouTube channel is being daily attacked by about several hundreds of similar messages from bots. Do you know what's the point of all these messages? Something like "People, cancel your pledges, come with us in GPD, we are so cool, we have a better prototype" etc. I'm sorry that I may be excessive but I'm telling about my position."
    This has never been true, as google very much has anti-spam measures on youtube.

    "So, everyone who is a part of this humiliating action, those b**ters who can't compete fairly, instead of supporting the revolution in gaming, they are trying to eliminate us as a threat. They realize that the PGS can ruin their works and to significantly reduce their sales. And we will make this great gaming future, I personally will make it possible."
    Alternative theory, these people, like the youtube comments they didnt leave behind, never existed. PGS realizes their project will get taken down, and create an enemy it can deal with.
    PGS cannot compete fairly.


    "Do you wants some interesting facts about that "competitors"?
    They try to ignore it but I will remind. On the crowdfunding stage they didn't have ANY prototype (compared to us). And even that device which was shown after the campaign was in fact a device based on the weakest variation of the Intel Bay Trail. Even DMC4 runs with 15 FPS on it."
    The Pyra had a prototype long before preorders began. GPD also had a real proto during their campaign, and have the same SoC as PGS wants to have. GPD is a real company.

    "Those f***ers makes an emphasis that we do not have a prototype. I would tell those jerks from rivals to open their eyes wider. The prototype is presented in the bottom of our KS page, and closer to the campaign end we will try our best to present the improved version. Don't like that the case was printed on a 3D printer? Feeling uncomfortable that it is not based on a custom PCB? Those rivaling dumbs are trying to prove that this isn't a prototype at all. I would tell them to stop fooling our backers, just take a look on a definition of the prototype and then keep talking your bull*hit in some other place."

    rivalingdumbs.jpg

    A prototype that isnt a prototype, "demonstrating" thing even the real deal cant do, is dishonest. Getting angry and doing the same, is still not a prototype. Printing a incomplete 3D-case and butchering a tablet, costs nothing, and currently is the only promise of skil and intent on behalf of PGS.

    "I've also noticed on the NEOGAF forum that some "unique" people appeal others to intentionally throw mud in our comments, to report on our project. Fortunately, opinions of that auditorium will not obstruct the creation of our device."
    The device isn't being created, lies about it cant be kept secret. Maybe PGS can learn something about games at NEOGAF.


    "As for commenters like Erosquare. I know where you came from. I know who sent you. You will not succeed in your pitiful attempts to take away our backers. I thought that "competitors" company were better than that. I was wrong."
    I assumed PGS was better than this.

    "The next portion of text I dedicate to our backers, to those who believe in our success. And even when in doubts, they act considerately, they are able to see the potential of our product and they are truly looking forward to see the realization. Guys, thank you. You are our inspiration. It is the fact that you are here helps us going further, together we believe that the future of portable gaming devices is in such form-factor as PGS has. Perhaps, one day there will be the more stronger players on the market creating something that exceeds our works, but we believe that the idea of our product will prove this is the truly demanded type of device as well as the need for further developing the idea. Thank you for confidently ignoring the nonsense of our foes. Thanks for not responding to their provocations, they will try to eliminate us by all means.

    We won't let you down!

    Best regards,
    Nadir"

    PGS will let you down like Kate Windslet at the end of Titanic.

    tagspga.png

    Update: Update #18

    Dear backer, be careful, we are under attack!
    Posted by PGS LAB (Creator)
    [​IMG]

    During the last days our project and all web pages were brutally attacked by spammers. They aim to:

    - smear our status

    - confuse our backers

    - make the backers leave our project and so contribute to their own product's development.

    The main goal they're obviously trying to achieve is blocking our campaign.

    They spam endlessly trying to smear as much as possible. We're almost sure you'll see their filthy comments once this message appears.

    One of their principal "arguments" to make you leave us is "absence of prototype" as they call it. However, the link to the prototype has been posted on our Kickstarter page since the compaign began. By the end of the campaign we'll try to show you the renewed version of the prototype.

    To those who desperately try to smear our campaing (our competitors) we advise to apply their forces and means (which they spend to hinder us) to create a decent product, able to meet our competition! As it's absolutely clear now that your present project looks quite miserable, let's face the truth.

    The next update will contain the information about our production and investment partners.

    Thank you for staying with us! We'll never let you down! ;)"


    "We'll never let you down! ;)"

    In a familiar Russian style, I predict PGS will leave nothing but burnt earth behind in updates following the campaign. Meanwhile, we are carefully painted in the colours of surprise. This is an update all backers see, which means also the complacent and unaware will get to part-take in the discussions that has sent PGS down the drain over the last week.
    STAGE 14 17 July
    Dear backers, We are being attacked!
    No dishonestly bad news is good news, and the truthfully good news are in.

    Not content with bringing a upturn in the downturn of things, news of no news brought forth by PGS ripple

    https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykick...kfx/shitty_console_plays_the_under_attack_by/



    Coverage is tar on broad front, with broad brush and to great detail feathered to the effect of memes taking flight.
    https://youtu.be/HJlTDpvO-9w

    http://liliputing.com/2016/07/dubio...-concept-raises-300-thousand-kickstarter.html
    Liliputing puts their minds to use, and PGS to shame

    Something we see all too seldom is the critical light of online publicated journalism shone on unsightly events
    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...ms-it-can-provide-ultimate-handheld-gaming-pc

    I laude extremetech for their efforts, and find their angle a corner well played.

    As for the promised update of which premise is to describe purported contracts and the most recent diversion of claim supported by PGS, today was not the day. The scampaign is that of promises, but the god of CGI is not one to bestow earthly goods upon even the most devout believer.

    Tom

    about 1 hour ago

    "I'm doubting these people more who are saying this campaign is a scam, as their words seems to have more malicious intents behind its meaning as it becomes more repetitive."

    I would hold it against Tom to present such an absolute departure from all contrary thinking as to believe an unanswered question lessens in value by the amount of times or how it is repeated.

    The mere premise for such question is at this point great enough to scare away backers in droves, and has yet to be answered. The only way in which answering it is difficult, is that reality Tom seems not to be comfortable with.

    Nadir returns to the keyboard, for an encore of pure and unadulterated alchemy:

    PGS LAB Creator about 14 hours ago
    "Dear backers, I'd like to apologize for somewhat excessive and offensive message sent yesterday."
    Those words were addressed specifically to trolls, but it was done in the unprofessional tone.
    "We are sorry and we will not bring this topic up again."
    "Working on the PGS is very intensive and it causes significant amount of stress.
    "Since we want to make everything properly, we can't relax.
    "I hope for your understanding."
    "In the upcoming update we will provide more info about our business and production partners."

    The unprofessional tone is pretty much all you get beside 'signal busy' on the PGS line.

    And to the tune of such serenading words:
    issuesinfinancial.jpg


    Excellent Expert 1 day ago
    "I knew this was conspiracy! It was all planned in Protocols! PGS, I have read these plans of evil. I can send you copy of these book if you wish to knows how them evil minds works.

    And yes, Mr. Erosquare, I too have for a long while concluded who you work for! But it no surprise others in comments cannot open eyes and brain and figure out! It is so much obvious from your name! Let us only say that if you keep this campaign of mass destruction, it will be YOUR FINAL FANTASY!!!"

    We are left to ponder the question of what reality we live in, excellent expert, who gives us so much joy, how could he not be real!? He talks the real!
    Stage 15 18 July
    Handheld lies
    Most unanswered questions will, not completely soon…

    If you ever wondered what a closed handheld, with opaque and reflective levels of transparency would be, PGS gives you a lesson in awful customer service:

    Alec Arzh Alexander 18 minutes ago
    @Lewis Smith
    Thank you for your constructive concerns. All your questions are reasonable and most of them will be answered.
    The new prototype will not completely meet final specifications, but the core hardware will be the same as defined for final device to be able to present and show you the games running on it.

    The new "prototype" is going to be fake.


    Alec Arzh Alexander about 4 hours ago
    @Jack Herod
    As for handling with spammers, we are in no way lumping in all skeptics into the same group as spammers. We respect all skeptics who just want more details, without the intent to hurt and offend us. Sorry again, if it was offensive to you.
    Speaking of lack of details and photos of the working process, we think it may make things even worse as it was with our first prototype, when people were not satisfied by photos of half-assembled device or just internals. It may make wrong impression. Now we'd like to present you the fully completed improved prototype, as soon as it is finished. We are really on this path.
    Dear backers, if someone doesn't get an answer on constructive question immediately, it doesn't mean that we ignore it. All your constructive questions and suggestions will be answered as soon as possible.

    PGS knows its prototype is bogus, and doesn't want to show that. Instead promises a "improvement" which for the purpose of an actual prototype, is the exact same thing.


    Anyone can lodge an existing tablet or single-board product in a 3D printed case. Except PGS, they have not yet been able to do it. The point is it proves nothing, and costs nothing.

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 6 hours ago
    @Lewis Smith
    Thank you.
    @jack
    Konstantin is a part of our team. We needed a person with charisma and acting skills to be a community manager. It makes sense.
    Eventually he has become much more valuable team member than just a community manager, participating in product designing.

    "Alan/konstantin/?" has gone from product designer, to community manager, to both, and is now a team member.

    A new update begs the question, could this get any worse? With just the one option to do so. Yes, the unergonomic vote is back: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LXZQBY2
    Stage 16 19 July
    DYBBUK

    [​IMG]
    Excellent Expert 20 minutes ago
    @PGS Team

    "Just as you have research, I too have make researches. I have find source of problem. It not good. Far worse then I first speculate.

    PGS, your third dimensional printer is infested with a dybbuk! These malicious spirit is a only cause of current crisis! Any product of these printer will be conduit of horror. I can help defeat these evil, but you first must answer these inquires with absolute truth.

    1) dose printer have smell of the sulfurs?
    2) do any mothers of the project team peoples have red hair at birth?
    3) did Nadir become marriage under new moon?
    4) is image of Alan visible inside of mirrors?
    5) had any team members born within 50 kilometers of site of Romanov family execution?

    Do not waste time with inquiries of trolls, they not important. Please return to me with this responses and I will locate proper remedy.

    AND DO NOT IGNORE THESE COMMENT! IT WILL ONLY FURTHER ENRAGE DYBBUK!

    In mean times, it most important to contain dybbuk. Do not operate printings in presence of horned mammal. Do not permet investors to make examination without first provings they bleed red. And do not attempt removal of spirit in home, it can transfer to coffee maker with great ease.

    I wait for your reportings. I advise all supporters of glorious PGS team to light candle on kitchen alter to help weaken dybbuk."


    Kickstarter removed this comment, sealing the fate of the PGS project.

    Nadir forgetting to log out, seems to have passed our radar:

    [​IMG]

    Explaining not only the "convenient" time of the Alec persona appearing, but also why updates on team-members is often promised but yet to be seen.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Buyers beware, the above image may have been photogimped. We are not prepared to gauge the authenticity, but we will say this: There appears to be no steering-wheel.
    While PGS are very smudge about the speed, it is at present time only a suggested rate of travel.
    Stage 17 20 July
    Stationary lies

    We are given no further clues as to the personas used in the scampaign, but someone unearthed some nontheless:

    If you wonder what http://madfanboy.com/forum/sobirayu-miniatyurnogo-monstra-t60624-180.html says, it autotranslates to:

    "I understand that the request for assistance on the MBF usually lead to exactly the opposite result, but I'm afraid I'll just have to do it.

    With the campaign on Kickstarter have problems
    Everything went smoothly. Those who decided to trust immediately - immediately trusted, the rest made their money in anticipation to see the updated prototype before the end of the campaign, on which I work most actively, and will almost certainly have time to show it to be updated on the KS until the end of the campaign.

    Fees grew slowly, but about 3 days ago in the comments to the project on Kickstarter made a few trolls. They have made the dollar (which has allowed them to participate in the comments), and almost around the clock (by their activity they do not sleep), deliberately poured slops project, urging Becker to take their money. They also periodically provide direct links to the Chinese GPD with its console WIN, that would hint.

    This has led to charges that not only halted but went in the opposite direction, as many of Becker began to panic. For two days the campaign has lost 20t. dollars, and it continues to go into minus.

    I have two options, either I devote all my time suppressing their activity and mitigating the situation in the comments, or I deliberately keep dopilivat update the prototype. In the second case - to release a prototype of fees can come to such a figure from which a plus not to have time to get out.

    How can we help? Very simple. Pledzhim exactly $ 1 for KS page - to access a project commenting (dollar then you can pick up, sort of like he did not even removed from the card until the end of the campaign), and a little to defuse the situation in the comments the next day of the week. I understand that not everyone has the time or the opportunity, but the Chinese GPD we deliberately crushes and smothers other solutions I do not see :(

    I would be immensely grateful to everyone who responds."

    You can see AlecArzh respond to it. Which given that Nadir accidentally posted from a KS account of that name, means AlecArzh lent him the account, or Nadir simply made it.
    The new collaborators are hired on false pretenses.


    http://madfanboy.com/forum/sobirayu-miniatyurnogo-monstra-t60624-80.html

    Cooler3D's post autotranslated here:

    "AD
    I for PGS assistant can not hurt. Before the release of PGS on Kickstarter so many small tasks typed.
    Special skills are not necessary, except that a direct hand, responsibility, and intolerant attitude towards portable gaming pribludy.
    Appoint what some serious salary + bonus in the event of success fees on Kickstarter. "

    Notice how these arent even paid, but only promised payment in the event of the campaign succeeding.
    Why would someone do this when there is supposedly a "community manager" on staff already?

    We know that the "community manager" doesnt speak English since he is dubbed in the video, but still.

    The new collaborator "Monty" seems to be recruited through such channels:

    So, can we know who Monty is then?

    Monty Collaborator about 6 hours ago
    I'm a freelance writer that was asked to help with community outreach and making sure that the members' English was easily read (it's not their native language). I do have more information on the inner workings of PGS as a company, but I was told to hold off until we're able to get a big update out to sort of appease everyone at once. I don't typically like to associate crowdfunding campaigns with my professional profiles because of their unstable nature, but I promise that my name really is Monty, and I do live in Oregon.

    Monty is also a ghostwriter, but a little bit better at hiding his real persona than Alec.

    If Nadir would be able to mitigate anything in the comment-section it would be because he wasnt running a scampaign. It is very easy to disprove or clear up any questions. He could also build a prototype. Instead he gets on the internets to recruit shills…

    Speaking of non-prototypes, there was this video
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/d4wAu5c9VXE


    It is as real as the set of a theater.
    Made bigger to accomodate a Voyo v3 board. It is actually a step back, since it is a stationary rather than battery-operated machine. It is actually not shown to contain other than a screen, so it could be a screen attached to a gaming-controller. It is in any event someone elses machine, attached to someone elses gaming-controller.


    The impossible hinge is now clearly fake
    The nubs are from the same Ipega
    No cooling-solution shown
    No front buttons
    No secondary screen
    No front camera


    So it is a 3D-printed part. What is being prototyped here, is the ability to make stationary enclosures with no moving parts.
    The new prototype is fake.


    PGS is nothing more than a company that invests all its time and effort in a crowdfunding video, it is no closer to be able to produce anything now than it was half a year ago. It keeps putting effort into deceit.

    Ask yourself how this could be a scam instead of asking yourself how it could possibly not be.
    Stage 18 21 July
    Statistics, damned lies, and the PGS campaign.

    If you assume a position of ignorance, and utter lack of knowledge, how far can you get before you have to employ intent? Not only are lies conveniently promised, they are backed up by nothing, surrounded by more lies and an imaginary network to back that up, paid behind the scenes or otherwise a part of the act.

    When Nadir or anyone from PGS is confronted with how things really work, they resort to the non-answer, the convenient truth-bender, or flat out dishonesty and deceit.

    So why would a supposedly distinguished senior engineer end up with no skills in that field, and what lead to start a scampaign?

    Look into it as you wish.

    From the onset of obviously being a CGI-guy working in advertisement, with all effort spent on such efforts, one could question what went into the side of things where things actually get done:

    "
    Alec Arzh Alexander posted
    @MouF_MassTeR
    I've already mentioned that before communicating with you I was busy in some other sides of our projects. Nadir haven't hired me specifically to talk with you. Yes, we wrote on some forums that we didn't want to launch on Kickstarter, we were not planning it, but later our investor insisted to do it. This is crucial for us to get additional financing in order to create a complete prototype and then to produce the device."

    PGS can not keep up with their lies about going for or not going for kickstarter, even though the video is all and the first thing they did after the video for it.


    Sometimes they pretend they dont have funding and had to do KS instead, and other times they story is that the investors demanded KS. They have and don't have investors, supposedly, but never any proof.

    PGS LAB Creator 6 minutes ago
    @elefas
    "You were asking about what we have been doing during the campaign. I'll gladly tell you about it.
    We've conducted a lot of meetings and negotiations with potential production partners, component suppliers and media.
    The project has made such a large public impact that we can't fail finding/choosing the best reliable production partners and suppliers, all this will determine the future of the project.
    We've sent thousands of letters, invested a lot of money not only in the prototype making but also in advertising. Lots of hours have been spent on brainstorming. All these things are not prominently visible behind our communication here."

    Considering the public impact of PGS at large, the extent thereof has to be viewed in the sense that any news are good news.
    The kind of news generated are however not in any way helpful in finding a reliable production partner.
    Nobody wants to touch PGS with anything but a plentiful of moving comments.
    Whatever time is collectively spent on finding the best answers, the replies they come up with are certainly short of anything indicative of cranial use.

    Then lots of names were given to supposedly represent journalists they talked to. A very long list.
    Meaning certainly nearly nobody covered the PGS no-news, and those who did, in large numbers called it out for what it was. Not that PGS arent satisfied with either, we already know they use logos without linking back to create an illusion of being featured.
    Stage 19 22 July
    Stretched goals
    Alec Arzh Alexander about 19 hours ago
    @elefas
    "Our tech experts are currently in China preparing for interaction with production partners. Their hard work will start right after the campaign ending, once the final device picture is clear."

    Someone is supposedly in China, again.

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 14 hours ago
    @Backers
    "Dear backers, we really understand your concerns and anticipation while waiting for our final update. Once again we repeat that the final update will be in the next few days, we've already told it. You have to understand that it is very important not only for you, but for us as well, so please give us a little more time for preparation. We don't want to do everything in a big rush. Thanks for understanding.

    As for the stretch goals, we will consider your preferences as well as demand and financial aspect and implement some of the goals which won't be achieved in this campaign. For example, the Windows calling app is in high priority."

    PGS doesn't unannounce stretch-goals, they re-announce them


    The 350K one is long gone, and the 300K one is about to be un-met.
    What was a timeframe of 3 days one day ago, has now become "in the next few days"

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 18 hours ago
    "@Michael Mrozek
    Thanks for ideas. Taking into account.
    @Mark T
    We do realise it but we can't prohibit people to leave comments. All we can do is just ignoring hateful and purely negative comments, while reacting only to the constructive ones.
    @backers
    We'd like to remind that before the campaign ending a new significant update will be posted, where we are going to show more hardware tests, various usages of the device, as well as providing more info about the team and other details. Thank you."

    ED said PGS wouldn't have a problem with openness. Ironically the non-answer is and isn't the answer.
    If anyone is trolling, its PGS with their updates. As rightly pointed out, each of them lead to mass drops in funding.

    Todays update #20 was no exception:

    Where a update on progress would be just that, this details the project with the word "imagine". The rest of it is just generic functionality concerning functionality PGS has not demonstrated it has.

    "• It’s simply a pure pleasure to watch your favorite movies or series on our device, due to its display with high resolution and audio system, which gives 5.0 sound right on the device without need to use any auxiliary system."

    PGS seems to have forgotten 4 speakers isn't 5 channels, nor does it plan to ship 4, but instead 2 with the extra 2 nixed in place of a fan.
    Stage 20 23 July
    Shame and shame
    itissad.png

    Sadly it takes a lot of effort to bring shame upon the Russian nation these days. Nontheless this publication draws the blade from its mouth:

    https://www.iphones.ru/iNotes/592194
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.iphones.ru/iNotes/592194&edit-text=


    [​IMG]

    Excellent Expert about 20 hours ago
    "I agrees with Harris. This not scam. Kreyos was not scam too. See here for proof: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Red-...e-costing-1.5-million-of-backers-cash_id59630

    Kreyos founder Steve Tan buy himself new Ferrari, he wear the Gucchi. THE CAMPAIGN IS SUCCESS!!!"

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 14 hours ago
    @Beckers
    "Dear backers, seems like some of you suspect that we just want to get your money and then run away and then buy Ferraris. No, it's not truth, I personally prefer Lamborghini.
    Speaking sincerely, we have a dream represented by the PGS console, this device would be independent of all limitations that platform holders dictate, we all want a device which wouldn't be limited by copyrights. I personally have a desire to play emulators of such consoles: NES, SNES, PSP, SEGA Genesis, SEGA Dreamcast, PS2, Nintendo 64 and, of course, many many PC games. I'd like to have it all in my pocket, preferably with classical buttons control, rather than a touchscreen. And at the same time that device would be my phone and my portable PC as well. I hope you catch this idea. In order for us to have mutual understanding.
    Many of you will say "stop talking, give us facts".
    We are agree with you and understand it, but these are not just words, this is the dream which should be materialized. We don't need your money, we need your desire to hold such device in your own hands. If so, we will really make it possible.
    Some questions remain unanswered, sorry for that, the reply is going to come within the nearest hours.
    Our final update is coming TOMORROW."

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 15 hours ago
    @Argohrn
    "No, it's not truth what some forums say, the prototype really runs the games on its hardware. The hardware is identical to that of the PGS Light version."

    The technical part is not the part that PGS actually prototyped. The video they showed is running games from youtube videos. The hardware is unlike any of their promises, and unless the SoC got downgraded to what the tablet in the "prototype" uses, this is all a lie.


    The artificial limitation of having few early bird options left is working wonders. Doesn't matter if 28 people are on higher tiers for no reason. Because questioning is not the order of the day.
    Being 300% funded looks good, and the price is no questions asked as far as research goes.


    Maybe KS is using this to teach their backers some sense? It would seem as a token of good gesture to save people just in the nick of time. Besides, some still believe.

    Belief is currently postponed for tomorrow.

    Alec Arzh Alexander about 9 hours ago
    "@jack
    you will know everything tomorrow"
    Stage 21 24 July
    The ride never ends
    We are leaving but we don't say Goodbye

    Comments
    [​IMG]
    About 24 days ago, being highly inspired we started fundraising campaign for realization of probably the most ambitious project over the history of portable gaming.
    Ambition is not measured in inability to execute. PGS claims to want to fundraise inspiration, but even that is a lie.

    It would be a device which is capable to become your smartphone, PC and portable gaming console at once. That device would have potential to reincarnate portable gaming world.
    A lie is still a lie, even if you envision it to be true. Portable gaming is alive and well, and with those aims, one project is able to execute. As anything else would be dishonest, it never pretended to do all, but it tries.

    For less than 5 days we collected more than $300.000. Those were very busy days and we got precious experience.
    It actually collected more than 360 000 Seeing as it is sitting at 300, the world learnt something. Saying the PGS learnt anything would be giving them the benefit of the doubt they showed themselves undeserving of.

    With your help we have proven that PGS is highly interesting to people. Despite the raw prototype version, we got nearly 1000 backers from all over the world in our community. Driven by a common idea and vision, we were moving forward together.
    PGS in terms of a concept, and what was on offer, differs in that one was a dream and that the other was fooling people into belief. There was no prototype, there was nothing. There were however many 1$ backers.

    Driven by the tenacious effort of those people, and PGS own inability to follow up or not embarrass itself, nothing moved forward. It fell on its face, it went backwards, it went in any other direction, but never forwards.
    The project has made a great social impact: about 1000 articles in the world media, more than 300.000 community members. We are really thankful to everyone who shares our vision of the future.
    Another very easily falsifiable lie. The coverage was doubting, even dismissive, and as the hammer came down, flat out the worst coverage you could imagine. 300000 community members is another made up number missing by orders of magnitude. Pulling out at this stage means PGS knew it didn't have anything on the books to prevent a mass exodus. It hath been foretold, and forewarned. PGS bought time, and bailed ship.

    Unfortunately, such a great impact also attracted the attention of a small group of people who are always trying to spoil others' achievements, to obstruct the progress.
    Convenient, cowardly, and not true. If there was any progress to obstruct, matters would be very easy to settle. You cannot take away something that is not there. You cannot defend something that is not there with anything but proof.

    We are not much offended, but activity of these people managed to induce suspicion in some part of our community. The detractors were trying hard to convince others that our project is fake and scam and that our only goal is to get money and disappear. At some point even several media resources started believing that it's true.
    Taking offense publically would entail a modicum of humility. What community there was, quickly figured out what was up. Focusing on efforts to the contrary begs the question about how much effort was put into proving it was not a scam. None there, and effort spent on spilling the beans less still. The media resources worth their salt always knew what to report. Reporting on belief alone is propaganda.
    As a result we were facing the dilemma.
    Prove anything about claims made or not.

    In several days the campaign is going to end, we can get the sufficient sum of money for the PGS development, our investment agreements come into force.
    These investments are claimed to exist and not exist, they are also not proven. You can not dupe KS terms that way.

    On the assumption that someone else has technical knowledge, merit and ability, that is someone elses project, someone we know nothing of.
    But.. A lot of people may keep thinking we are a scam project.
    This is not a belief.

    We were considering various paths and decisions and eventually we've come to the following decision: we are cancelling our Kickstarter campaign.
    How convenient. This was the most outrageous scampaign on KS to date. There is no way it should have been there. KS had every reason to ask questions, and they were aware of the campaign.

    All your pledges will cancel as well. We will get no funds, but that's the price of saving our reputation. Now everyone who still thinks that PGS is a scam, should realize how far it is from truth.
    PGS couldn't have worse reputation short of hiring Josef Fritzl as PR-manager. Pulling out before proving the existence of your team and their credentials is further proof that the PGS is a scam company involved in scams, with a scam business-front.

    Even though we are cancelling, things are not so bad. Despite the initial agreements with investors that we must finish the campaign, the last meeting ended up with the new agreement according to which our device will be created anyway!
    A contract reported to exist and not exist, with terms reported to be starting the campaign on account of, or due to a lack of, said contract. There is still no device, and it is still the same scam.

    We can say we are not leaving with empty hands. This campaign has made a great impact, increasing our community and indicating the market demand situation. Also, during the campaign we have got hundreds of hints and reviews of our work, which we will use to grow and to make our product better.
    PGS hands are dirty. They were dirty coming in, and they are dirtier coming out. The tangusta strike made a great impact, and in saying that I made a point, something the original statement, did not. The market demand was tanking, people knowledgeable do not want anything to do with PGS. PGS needs a new name and new staff, and a lot of legal staff to sell anything close.

    Many people would ask: what about achieved stretch goals? All stretch goals, including those which are not achieved yet (except water proof), will be implemented in series devices. Moreover, the Hardcore version will include such features as vibro-modules, NFC, IRDA and FM-radio.
    IrDA, in 2016? FM-radio? Extra claims that are costly to introduce. Unless you are l-y-i-n-g, in which case claims are free to make. The insane variety in goods produced with just colours alone is a huuuge stretch.

    Also, as it was mentioned before, the Hardcore version will include active cooling, which will allow keeping constant GPU frequency at 600 MHz. It will add about 50% performance compared to Microsoft Surface 3, for instance (which GPU frequency is 400 MHz in standard conditions).
    Still an IGP. And while it is the same (rebranded) part, actual performance is not measured that way. It is also not how comparisons are made. You need an actual comparison, and something to compare it to.

    After the release the device will become available on such stores as Amazon and Gearbest. The price for Hardcore version will start from 360$. This is higher than the Kickstarter price, so to make it fair we are opening the preorder system on pgslab.com Preorder price is 299$. During a month since today you will be able to use a promo code "hardcore". Having entered it on the payment page, you will get an additional discount of 40$ (resulting price would be 259$).
    This allows PGS to report wild numbers without any proof, also, it brings PGS closer to claiming money for doing nothing.

    259$ is actually a price-reduction on the yet to be sold out, subsidized price of 260$. When that is lower than cost-margins, and PGS cant sell beyond that even with the benefit of the doubt, this is, with more features added and less cost, more of a pipe-dream.
    As for the Lite version, its fate is in question. We don't want to cancel it, but also it hasn't gained great popularity in its current state. Perhaps we will revise its conception and pricing in the nearest future.
    Sounds like something that could actually turn out to entail what is for others a no-brainer. Credit where credit is due.

    Everyone who wants to stay tuned, feel free to subscribe to our news feed, you can find the corresponding button in the right upper corner of the pgslab.com
    There is a new psychological phenomenon called PGS-addiction. Despite the numbers and 1$ pledge being taken in support of this nonsense, it is a nonsense we love.

    We thank everyone who has trusted and supported us on our way. Thank you so much. We are creating the future together.
    You owe us. A "personal thanks" at the $10 level, even though we are only in for 1$. Hoping you find the door yourself, but the exist is in another castle.

    Best,
    Unless…

    PGS LAB Team
    We have yet to agree on that part.
    [​IMG]

    The numbers:

    Backers Item Cost
    27 Personal thanks 10$
    1 T-shirt 30$
    23 Early-bird lite 230
    498 Early-bird hardcore 260
    4 Lite 280
    479 Hardcore discout 280
    29 Hardcore 320
    10/10 Hardcore titanium 800
    0 10x Lite 0
    0 Business angel 0

    1187 $302,836

    It was put on Gumroad
    gumroad.png
    It was taken down from Gumroad

    To was put on Celery
    trycelery.png
    It is still up on Celery.
    Bonus stage (23.okt)
    This little PGS went to market

    Talking to people it shouldnt, with a twitter-tact akin to the drumpf himself, PGS takes to twitter, and gets promptly shot down by the ED fighter-plane.
    https://twitter.com/EvilDragon1717/status/768532705847959552

    [​IMG]

    @EvilDragon1717 Michael, that rare sight is incomplete, so maybe we will borrow you our console for making photo :)

    Michael Mrozek ‏@EvilDragon1717 24. aug.

    @AlecArzh Sure, once you got it finished, why not? Are you planning to attend next years' GamesCom? :)

    AlecArzh ‏@AlecArzh 25. aug.


    @EvilDragon1717 Yes, we will have something interesting to show on GamesCom and E3.

    Seeing as PGS wasnt at Gamescom, and by the looks of it can not afford to go to E3, it doesnt like PGS will join the fold in -17 either.

    When people called out for more benchmarks, what did they want? Real ones. Spreadsheets!?, no… What did they get?

    Spreadsheets!

    There are links to videos, so it must make sense. There was a good deal of tounge-in-cheek earlier, so why not put it all out there and breathe normally?
    This is the video to see
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ECmCChjnK0
    And if you want bad news in spanish:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSCbg_DKi2I

    In the bingo-game that is breaking Kickstarter rules, PGS doesn't go accross, up or down, they fill out the whole board.
    Though they are no longer on KS, with no return in sight, finally we have the raffle-rule broken.
    Re-tweet or like on facebook for a chance to win. False marketing and false rewards, get in now.
    Fear not, this will only make a dent in what has proven to be a sturdy armour of public relations and reputation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  8. Exophase

    Exophase Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.

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    So their excuse is that they shouldn't start PCB design now because the stretch goals make components of it unknown? How convenient. It seems to me that only a couple of the goals even really have an impact on PCB design anyway and the first one they quickly passed. I have no idea if they can support E-Ink without a different PCB, I really doubt they can, but they'd better hope so or else it's going to be super expensive to support both screen types.

    That guy does a lot of commission work and real movie trailers, it wouldn't really surprise me. Just means they thought this was a good thing to spend money on.. more questionable judgement..
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  9. TheOldOne

    TheOldOne Fallen Paladin

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    Actually if you are big enough (as in have more accounts than the IRS has total employees) you can pay 0% tax.
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Partly true. Doing the schematics would be the first step, and that can be done regardless.
    And MOST of the layout could also be done. Only major changes would need a complete redesign. Let's see their stretch goals:

    1. Key buttons backlight.

    No big deal. That's a few tiny LEDs and a controller for them. Space for those can be kept, and if it's not met, simply don't populate them.

    2. Various case colors

    Doesn't have anything to do with the PCB.

    3. Factory GPU Overclock

    Whatever that should be, but it doesn't have anything to do with the PCB design, as the GPU is inside the SoC.

    4. Games optimization tool

    Doesn't have anything to do with the PCB.

    5. Colored E-Ink display

    Well, has more to do with the case than the PCB. On the PCB, it just needs to be connected to the power source and video signals on the SoC.
    That's one connector and a couple of traces. And as in 1: Can be prepared but left unpopulated if stretch goal isn't met.

    6. Calling from Windows

    Doesn't have to do anything with the PCB.

    7. Water resistant

    Doesn't have to do anything with the PCB.

    8. Wireless charging

    Finally, something that has to do with the PCB. But again, this could be prepared but simply not populated.


    So I don't see anything why the layout or design couldn't have been finished already.
    Besides: Having different options which will lead to different PCB designs would only work with Kickstarter rules if they HAVE these as working prototypes already.

    Yeah,right... proof? :)
     
  11. Exophase

    Exophase Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.

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    Corporate tax rate in America is 35%, but as an LLC their tax burden simply passes through to the owner, so they pay normal taxes as an individual.

    However, income taxes need only apply to actual profit. The money they spend making the devices can be claimed as expenses which are deducted from taxable income. It's kind of tricky with KS since you take money upfront and don't deliver anything immediately, with deliveries possibly spanning different years. But until you deliver all the money you receive can be filed as "unearned income" which you don't yet pay taxes on. You'd then pay taxes when you deliver, accounting the profits as earned income.

    The 10% tax figure could include other taxes like payroll tax, if they have actual employees.
     
  12. _jr_

    _jr_ Advanced Member

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    Everything will be ok!
     
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  13. Exophase

    Exophase Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.

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    Which of you $1 contributors want to spoil the backers only post talking about the team? :p

    Really hard to understand why they'd make this backers only when it's a big sticking point for people who are on the fence about backing. Especially after making all of the other 10 updates public. They should have made it part of the campaign page.
     
  14. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Ah, they start to post hidden updates? Good thing I'm a $1 backer already :)
     
  15. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    Please share pertinent info.
     
  16. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, while I won't make everything public, but here's their team:

    1. A CG Artist as head of the company (as you already know). He's a fan of mobile devices. No hardware experience.
    2. One guy who is responsible for strategy and finance, who worked on some social gaming projects. So no hardware experience.
    3. A hardware engineer who participated in development for quadrocopters and 3D printers. According to the update, emphasizing on microelectronics. I didn't find anything about him on the net, and "participating in development" isn't really that much... and both these devices hardly need PCBs with THAT many features on that size.
    4. A community manager (the dubbed guy from the video)
    5. Legal Affairs Manager. She helped setting up the company in US. That's the actress. Yay.
    6. A marketing manager.

    Well, that's it.
    That's one hardware engineer who might actually know what he's doing, but who apparently never worked on anything similar before.
    No one for the case design...

    The rest is CG, marketing and management.
     
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  17. Malboro

    Malboro Newbie

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    I think that there are not those perdone in his team

    alan and others are actors
    lola is a Russian actress that I'll try contattareb someone for more details

    the mind is nadir

    created everything nadir

    he has found the solution (portable solution)
    but it has not created the solution

    He had ONLY THE IDEA.

    but it does not have a company to work, create, design


    as he thinks to create pgs lab?


    I have contacted several engineers and managers from various international companies, real console makers like gpd, jxd


    Some have said to me that it is not feasible what he says to do


    careful

    the Russians are smart, we Italians are smarter than their
    lol
     
  18. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, yes, that's what I said months ago: That project won't work for that price. :)
     
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  19. fusion_power

    fusion_power Advanced Member

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    Apple started with two guys in a garage...just give them a chance. ;)
     
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  20. Exophase

    Exophase Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.

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    One of those two guys designed and hand built one of the first home computers ever and he did it all on his own without having to sell his credentials to anyone. If PGSLab had something like a modern day Apple I to demonstrate I think people would view them differently.
     

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