PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor


Tis reminiscent of the OTON. Projects like this can ward off people who get burned, from backing legitimate projects.
I like kickstarter because every now and again a gaming gem turns up on there- also we get books about old software houses like Gremlin etc- these would not exist without crowdfunding imo.
 
They do make it sound like they don't have the electrical engineers to produce the PCB and are reliant on a potential partner, if that is the case, then how can you promise all that was in the PGS. You wouldn't have a clue any of it was technically possible to put together in a single package.

@Wrath, The voice over, in the PGS video, reminded me of the voice used in the OTON video

Well, surprisingly, given that, and the fact backers have pointed out this glaring thing, backers are still plonking their cash into it. I guess some are probably thinking, wow , Intel possibly joining and doing the PCB , Wow, yeah wow,

Don't forget folks, they are about to unlock the next stretch goal - Color e-ink display for the second display.

On the plus side, hopefully this is the final straw for a number of people and they instead back the Pyra and WIN. I can see a up tick in Pyra pre-orders yesterday. A few orders for the WIN also.

Well , I have a strong suspision this now will end similar to the Skarp Laser Razer.
 
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Tis reminiscent of the OTON.

It's pretty bad but OTON is a whole different level of awful. Then again who knows, maybe PGSLab will add a stretch goal where the handheld makes games for you.

The big problem with making glaring revelations and changes part way through the campaign is a lot of people will back something early then stop looking at it for a while. In situations like these KS really needs to step in and make them start the campaign over. You can't just do what they did and fix problems like misleading renders part way through the campaign! That's pretty much admitting that all of the contributions before then were obtained under false pretences, in this case enough to exceed their goal. And having those backers gives an air of credibility to new people who are thinking of backing.
 
So someone found the CEO of pgslab.com , A guy by the name of Nadir Mursalov. If you look at some of the PGS creator comments, some are signed as Nadir.

Anyway, the guy found his russian xing page (similar to linkdin ). It clearly says he is the ceo of pgslab.com He's a 3D generalist - basically a 3D CGI artist sort of. ie someone who can create that type of flashy ad you see as the kickoff to the PGS kickstarter. You can see in his demo real he has done many ads like you see for PGS ->




You may need to register to see his profile here:
https://www.xing.com/profile/Nadir_Mursalov/cv?sc_o=p2786_s

His skill sets: 3D Softimage XSI 3Dmax Fusion Animation Visualisation VFX CG Supervisor Generalist Nuke Compositing Video Editing Audio Editing Maya

CEO
pgslab.com

Industry: Computer Hardware
Type of organisation: Publicly held corporation
Company size: 1-10 employees
Employment: Owner
Career level: Senior Executive (CEO, CFO, President)
Discipline: Administration

Инициатор, создатель и руководитель проекта -> Initiator, founder and leader of the project

-> I'm going to guess, given the above, that everyone in the PGS video is an actor. My conjecture - take it with a grain of salt. Separate note: Nadir (the CEO) does not appear in the video.
 
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69295325.jpg
 
I've lost hope ...
he does not have a team
He lives in russia

he just had a good idea but not achievable

He has nothing in his hands

What he can not give it to you?

I repeat

he just had a good idea ...
perhaps,nvidia, gpd or jxd one day will use his idea

ps
His facebook account
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001333509059&_rdr

Note (moderator approved) - Wally
 
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Oh well, as 3D artist, he can easily create awesome looking videos and produce printed cases.
However, for proper molds, the software he uses can't be used, so it needs to be created fully from scratch by a CAD guy, not a 3D designer.
 
Oh well, as 3D artist, he can easily create awesome looking videos and produce printed cases.
However, for proper molds, the software he uses can't be used, so it needs to be created fully from scratch by a CAD guy, not a 3D designer.
hey boss
more information here

use google trad because it is Russian

http://www.gamedev.ru/users/?id=66626&lasttop

His nick cooler3d

Note (moderator approved) - Wally
 
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So they have so little actual physical design done that they had to change to be a "project design"-project of a technology product. So they hid their rendered designs, making them appear paper-like. So we have paper mockups and "paper thin" everything else.

batterypgs.png


EVERYTHING IS PAPER

Edit: For those of us that remember, there was even a paper-release months ago, with the same "yes we will have a prototype".
 
So they have so little actual physical design done that they had to change to be a "project design"-project of a technology product. So they hid their rendered designs, making them appear paper-like. So we have paper mockups and "paper thin" everything else.

View attachment 28688

EVERYTHING IS PAPER
Kickstarter is fine with all this bait and switch as long as they get their share, right?

Have fun with your paper, PGS backers.
 
Funny thing is, before someone did some digging on them, PGS said they will do an update presenting the PGS team members. That should be good. :)

We have said this before early in this thread., but here is the Bill of manufacture estimate for the iphone. $236 for the iphone 6s plus.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...graded-Components-iPhone-6S-Costs-Apple-Extra

Bare in mind the iphone 6s plus does not have:

1) a secondary color e-ink display

2) 8GB RAM (iphone has 2GB)

3) 128GB SSD (iphone as costed has 16GB)

4) A slide out game pad which adds a lot of complexity and cost

5) Telescopic sticks

6) Quadrophonic sound

7) uSD slot

8 ) 6120mAh battery (iphones is ~2915mAh)

The iphone does have volume discounts to get those parts at those prices. And they also design their own SOCs


So tell me again how they can build the PGS Hardcore for only $160 a piece . Remember only 50% of funds are allocated to producing units according to the PGS kickstarter page
 
You can add to that,

9) a hinge
10) buttons

Setting up EE, certification, flashing, tooling, fitting, QC, distribution and parts chains is no small task for a small company, so its not even an apple to apples comparison, its a lot worse.
 
I don't think any early birds may get lucky.

With the expertise I see right now, they will probably never ever have a working prototype.
Well, with 500k EUR maybe, if they find a company that can do the design.

I wonder... maybe that Kickstarter is a bait for investors?
Trying to show the interest is there and then trying to fund it with investors, delivering a small production run for lower-than-production cost prices and then having a normal sales price of 500 EUR?
 
Its risky indeed, but who knows, the early birds may get lucky.


Risky?, I would would lean towards, and IMO, impossible without an investor cash injection

Lets recap some things.

1) The CEO is a graphics and visual artist who probably put together the video and the 3d renders seen in it. He is the CEO, but doesn't appear in the PGS video. He is russian and lives in russia and the site is hosted in Russia. ie he isn't based in Detroit where he registered PGSLAB LLC. He says they will form an office there after the KS. Aha

2) It seems what they plan to create would cost in parts, what I would estimate to be getting close to double what they provisioned for. See my previous post above regarding this.

3) They have no prototype, they don't plan to create a real (with their own PCB) prototype before the end of the Kickstarter. That they say, will come after the KS when they find a partner with Electrical engineering skills that can design the PCB. So how on earth do they know what they planned is feasible at all if they haven't designed the PCB? Think about that.

4) They have a slide out screen that almost completely slides out to show the gamepad and second screen. How does it do that. Every slider of any type that Iv'e seen, all cover the bottom section when open by about 33-40%.

5) Telescopic sticks, the mechanical mechanism for which they have yet to develop. Oh boy.

6) They have a team of seven (video shows 14, but it's old , so maybe 7 left) and the campaign to delivery of the PGS runs for about 9 months. Yet in the funding breakdown, they allocate only 5% to operational expenses. So if they had of made their original target of $100K, 5% is $5k , that to pay seven people for 9 months? Even if they reach $1M , % being $50K, is not going to fund seven people for 9 months and pay for all other operational expenses.. Are they all volunteering?

7) They catered for 20% to pay for an industrial prototype. 20% of their $100K target would have been $20K, Hmm, ok, but what about tooling costs like steel molds for plastic injection for plastic parts. Where is the provision for those? Is it embedded in the prototype costs. This doesn't sound right, molds can be expensive.

8) It doesn't seem like they made anything before. Could be wrong, but thats the feeling I get here

9) They showed previous drafts of their KS page , the first of which had a note by KS that said the project didn't meet KS rules and pointed to the KS rules page. That page mentioned not using photo realistic renders and also that they needed to show an explicit working prototype. This was also mentioned over time to them by various forum posters. Even a day before they went live, I warned them that their KS didn't meet KS rules - (they showed us a final draft). Yet knowing they didn't meet KS rules, they still went ahead with the campaign anyway. What does that tell you ?

10) They say that using third party products constitutes a prototype. Of course it doesn't, that's ridiculous. Would it be reasonable for me to start a KS campaign to build and produce a car, only to show a prototype which was a Ford Explorer with the doors removed?

At the end of the day it's your call fox, but if your expecting to get something from being an early bird, I'd reassess that. A lot of KS campaigns that I have seen fail, end up with little cash to make anything. Remember the ICP2 - surely you haven't forgotten already
 
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I don't think any early birds may get lucky.

With the expertise I see right now, they will probably never ever have a working prototype.
Well, with 500k EUR maybe, if they find a company that can do the design.

I wonder... maybe that Kickstarter is a bait for investors?
Trying to show the interest is there and then trying to fund it with investors, delivering a small production run for lower-than-production cost prices and then having a normal sales price of 500 EUR?

Who knows, but at this rate 500K should be no problem for this kickstarter to archieve.
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Risky?, I would would lean towards, and IMO, impossible without an investor cash injection

Lets recap some things.

1) The CEO is a graphics and visual artist who probably put together the video and the 3d renders seen in it. He is the CEO but not in the PGS video. He is russian and lives in russia and the site is hosted in Russia. ie he isn't based in Detroit where he registered PGSLAB LLC. He says they will form an office there after the KS. Aha

2) It seems what they plan to create would cost in parts, what I would estimate to be getting close to double what they provisioned for. See my previous post above regarding this.

3) They have no prototype, they don't plan to create a real (with their own PCB) prototype before the end of the Kickstarter. That they say, will come after the KS when they find a partner with Electrical engineering skills that can design the PCB. So how on earth do they know what they planned is feasible at all if they haven't designed the PCB? Think about that.

4) They have a slide out screen that almost completely slides out to show the gamepad and second screen. How does it do that. Every slider of any type that Iv'e seen, all cover the bottom section when open by about 33-40%.

5) Telescopic sticks, the mechanical mechanism for which they have yet to develop. Oh boy.

6) They have a team of seven (video shows 14, but it's old , so maybe 7 left) and the campaign to delivery of the PGS runs for about 9 months. Yet in the funding breakdown, they allocate only 5% to operational expenses. So if they had of made their original target of $100K, 5% is $5k , that to pay seven people for 9 months? Even if they reach $1M , % being $50K, is not going to fund seven people for 9 months and pay for all other operational expenses.. Are they all volunteering?

7) They catered for 20% to pay for an industrial prototype. 20% of their $100K target would have been $20K, Hmm, ok, but what about tooling costs like steel molds for plastic injection for plastic parts. Where is the provision for those? Is it embedded in the prototype costs. This doesn't sound right, molds can be expensive.

8) It doesn't seem like they made anything before. Could be wrong, but thats the feeling I get here

9) They showed previous drafts of their KS page , the first of which had a note by KS that said the project didn't meet KS rules and pointed to the KS rules page. That page mentioned not using photo realistic renders and also that they needed to show an explicit working prototype. This was also mentioned over time to them by various forum posters. Even a day before they went live, I warned them that their KS didn't meet KS rules - (they showed us a final draft). Yet knowing they didn't meet KS rules, they still went ahead with the campaign anyway. What does that tell you ?

At the end of the day it's your call fox, but if your expecting to get something from being an early bird, I'd reassess that. A lot of KS campaigns that I have seen fail, end up with little cash to make anything.

I agree, its a stretch, a major stretch, the Pyra has been an enormous undertaking, and ive been with the Pandora from the beginning too, so i agree that even if they can make it, it might not even end up becoming what they are promising now, but i am curious what this might lead to.
 
It leads (hypotetically) to everyones money getting spent on making a prototype, which leaves no devices for anyone.

OR

It leads to everyone's money being taken for a ride, (bingo) during the course of which a lot of people will cancel. Same as above.

Chances of products in buyers hands, none. Chance of tears, ranging from yes to yes. If you want to believe, you get the full amount back and none of it is spent designing anything. (you wont)

The only difference being _when_ people realize. With even the dishonest and lackluster information up there now, even if you want to believe, there is nothing to believe in.

Edit: There is also no price-point at which it makes sense.

Either its 20% for industrial prototype out of 100k, with 20k you aren't even making the case, much less a custom PCB, bios, hacking it together, a custom joystick. Its not going magically all fit and work and be ready for mass production, but that is another issue.

Even if you make it 20% out of one million euro, 200k, you won't make it this year, or the next, at best.

Look at GPD, they are a veteran company. Re-using as much as they can, fitting it into already existing ecosystem, in China. Even if you believe as strongly as you want, even doing what they do, for anyone else, is a huge undertaking.

Nobody has ever made a successful mobile Intel product.

Here comes no experience, and errors to suggest they know nothing about technology, thinking they can magically set up production in China, get away with it, and meanwhile 'make up' a prototype.

They can't even juggle kickstarters terms and condidtions. It is satire.

Edit: 10% kickstarter fees (reasonable) 10% tax 5% operational expenses.
So on the premise of they are doing this for shits and giggles, with everyone volunteering, and that 'renting an office' is the only operational expence (it isnt) How exactly do you have one company, paying 10% tax, in America?
ratespgs.png

So lets relate these numbers to actual reality.
20% for "industrial prototype" If this is the money you are taking _from_ the kickstarter, how does a prototype even get funded before the project ends?
 
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Ok, PGS just answered some people in the KS comments section. Here's some choice responses by PGS.

"We do have experienced engineers in our team which are capable of working on the PCB design, but now we have a lot of tasks to be done only once, which are not to be reworked later. The final PCB design depends on many factors, including the achieved Stretch Goals. At the current stage we don't think we should do things which should be inevitably reworked in the future. "

"The nearest update will be dedicated to introducing our team. "

"Our negotiations with Intel have come to further point, so we decided that it is the right way to remove the AMD Goal. "

Someone asked "By the way, did they hire the ScreenJunkies honest trailer guy to say "PGS Revolution Now"?"
PGS responded with "By the way, it was indeed a "ScreenJunkies honest trailer guy"

That last comment, whaaat. I actually tweeted the screen junkies guy to see if it's true. That would be funny.
 
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