Paying For Emulators Is Just Plain Wrong

[Akuma no Houkon]

Money Orders work internationally, I do not know exactally what they call them in the UK, I have gotten some from people in the UK before (and I am in the US), however, so I know they are available there just the same as here and that they work internationally.

A money order is simply money you pay to a bank (or similar) and they give you a little piece of paper (like a check except its already paid for and you dont need a bank account), you send that "check" to whoever you want, and _only_ they can cash it. They cash it by going to any bank (or similar) and cashing it the same way they would a check.

However its more secure for the company because they dont have to worry about it being returned due to lack of funds like a check may, or worry about it being a bad check, etc.. because money orders are basically "pre paid checks".

So saying you cant buy things because you cant get a credit card, or bank account, etc... is not really a valid excuse, I have never encountered a store or website that would not accept money orders. (with the exception of a few ebay auctions that would ONLY accept paypal and nothing else, but thats their loss).

 

[yaustar]

In that case, I guess it really either comes down to a 'lack of knowledge' factor, 'cannot be arsed' or 'there is a free alternative' approach..

 

[PinkSpider]

I didnt know that, but im a lazy cunt and wanna use my debit card :angry:

 

[Antiriad]

Im not a free loader as some insinuate, call me antiquated or naive but I believe in an Emulation community where people pull together sharing - giving and taking in order to preserve the memory of once cherished systems that are no longer supported. And its something to be done in spare time as a hobby - not a business.

Thats Emulation consumerism. If I want that, Ill goto the shops and buy remakes from the companies who have the rights to do so.

Just as I believe you shouldnt emulate systems that are commercially viable (still in the shops in case you want to split hairs for the umpteenth time) either - something I know many people also disagree with. Well, thats what I believe and I have the right to do so.

Frankly extending my stance on emulators to legitimate work is ridiculous. and utterly fecitious. And since when did I say reverse engineering was easy? And just because it isnt - does it make it right and therfore worthy of payment? Its like paying a thief or a pirate the same price for a good i can buy in the shops and if i complain they'd say "it took effort to steal that you know".

And I very much do pay for things, I buy movies, I buy music, Ive paid for shareware products. But in these instances I know that the person has the right to sell it.

When an artist covers someone elses record, if they decide to sell their version the writer of the original song gets royalties. If they dont sell it, they dont. And that to me makes sense.

Well, Ive said enough. Im out of here.

 

[yaustar]

At the end of the day, there is no 'right' answer. If an author wants to charge for their work then they can, and if someone wants to pay for it then they will. Simple

Slightly off topic, an author (dont know who) did a little test on the extent of piracy, he/she made a freeware game but needed registeration (which was free) to play. A while later, he/she found some hacked versions of the free software. Bloody riduculus really....

 

[Axeman]

Sad if you ask me. That someone would go to the effort to do that shows that there are definitely people out there with way too much time on their hands!

 

[coolgpguy]

man i wanna zodiac so bad.............ITS TOO EXPENSIVE :angry: :angry:

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

I dont see a difference between emulators and normal games. They both take time, effort, and alot of sleepless nights. Just because one happens to play old games, makes no difference whatso ever. It comes down to the basic fact that someone deserves to be paid for their work. Actually I do see a slight difference, emulators allow us to play thousands of old and new games, rather than just one, I think emulator coders should be paid _more_ than game coders for the simple fact that their work allows people to play thousands of old classics, and thousands of new games.

You have a very narrow veiw of emulation. Emulation isnt just to play old games on new platforms, its also to play new games on alternative platforms.

As an example of this, I cannot wait until the GBA emulator is done so I can rip all of my ORIGINAL GBA games and play them on the GP32 rather than the GBA.

Also, not to mention that with all the graphic enhancements that Bleem! gave, I loved playing my ORIGINAL psx games on my PC rather than my PSX!

Even barring that, even pretending that emulation is only (or should only) be used for old classic systems like you seem to be doing, it still takes alot of sweat and sleepless nights that should be compensated for.

pull together sharing - giving and taking

EXACTALLY. And where is the GIVING part when everyone is always TAKING? If more people GAVE then things like that wouldnt be requires, but REALSITICALLY not many actually give. So making people pay is forcing those who take advantage of someones work, to give their share. Its not just upto the coder to give, thats extremely selfish. And realistically the % of people that actually donate is so small that its not even worth it.

You just made my argument for me.


Just because YOU have that view on emulators doesnt mean most others do.

 

[Pirotic]

i dont see what the big deal is..

take this example - a coder knows he could make a brilliant emu, full-speed, full compability, however - hes busy and cannot justify taking time away from family and friends in order to code it to that level of perfection.

if he knows enough people would pay for it for him to make a decent amount of £ for his work, then the outcome is - we get a great emu which we wouldn't of got otherwise, he makes enough money to warrant time spent, and everybodys happy.

its not like they are forcing you to buy it

 

[wildcat]

Emulators themselves are perfectly legal for the most part- the problem comes in downloading copyrighted roms you either don't own in terms of games, much in the same way with MP3s. You need to bear in mind also that a lot of people don't play games on emulators illegally. A lot of homebrew titles have been made for free which are perfectly legal to play, some roms have been declared as freeware (world of spectrum and back to rights are full of legal roms) and there are those who try before they buy. I often download Game Gear roms in order to see what they are like before tracking a real copy down on ebay. Perhaps a pay-per-rent service for roms would be a nice idea.

I personally think current developers/publishers should offer a service to actually buy roms which no longer have any retail value of older games. That way they would still retain copyright, generate more income and introduce older franchises to those who may have never played such titles before which is a good thing for the future. It would also be a positive step in the right direction of shooting down the emulation=piracy argument.

 

[Antiriad]

Well, having been shouted down both here and on other forums, I guess Im wrong then. Popular opinion and logic is that emulators are legal, and as such their authors are entitled to charge for their hard work on them.

And I should put my hand in my pocket more often for them.

Fair enough. My apologies if ive offended anyone and in future I shall avoid preaching my opinions in such a manner as its innappropriate and disruptive.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Well, having been shouted down both here and on other forums, I guess Im wrong then. Popular opinion and logic is that emulators are legal, and as such their authors are entitled to charge for their hard work on them.

And I should put my hand in my pocket more often for them.

Fair enough. My apologies if ive offended anyone and in future I shall avoid preaching my opinions in such a manner as its innappropriate and disruptive.

It wasnt disruptive, you have the right to your opinion, and you obivously wanted opinions or you wouldnt have posted the thread initally, so those of us who have opposing views just showed you the other side of the coin.

I find it very refreshing that you would come back and make a post like the one you just did. If only everyone could be pursuaded to that course of action.

 

[Skop]

It would stop a lot of bull-shitting that's for sure.

 

[yaustar]

Just out of interest, can selling software (in general) in a home development create good income? Or is it more of an 'added bonus'?

 

[Axeman]

Depends how good it is (and how well you can protect it!). Main problem is, that it doesn't last!

 

[don]

@Antiriad:

I wish all people would behave so mature. I can see and understand your point, but I really appreciate that you don't rely stubborn on your own opinion, you're listening to the things other ppl say. Thumbs Up!

 

[thecheat]

using an older ROM is a victimless crime, just like running a pirate radio staion or even doing the salami bit with your own employer (taking the .00xx cents/pence/w/e generated by interest that is usually shved off of the balance and transfering it into another bank acct. ). emulating games that arent sold anymore should be legal. Intellectual property aside, games that are not sold in retail anymore should be open to people who want to play them. I do not think that any games for recent systems should be emulated, but playing zelda or even old Atari2600 games shouldnt be illegal. Who should be criminalized, giant corparations that are too greedy to share things that they dont even make money off of, or people who want to enjoy classics on different platforms to keep the old games alive?

Also, what is this nonsense about minors not having acces to credit cards? i am 14 and i have a mastercad/debit at my local credit union. that, in fact, is how i purchased my gp32 and everything else i get. i am going to get a job soon to feed my computer habit, so on this i would have to agree with Akuma.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Also, what is this nonsense about minors not having acces to credit cards? i am 14 and i have a mastercad/debit at my local credit union. that, in fact, is how i purchased my gp32 and everything else i get. i am going to get a job soon to feed my computer habit, so on this i would have to agree with Akuma.

As I said, there is ALWAYS a way, if one way isnt available for you, try another, there is always a way. Its just an excuse for lazyness, and a very lame one at that.

As for the rest of your comment, it doesnt matter if you think something shouldnt be illegal, it still is.

And it is actually _rarely_ a victimless crime.

Lets look at some of the common games, Mario (1,2,3,world,etc...), or Zelda (1,2,LinkToThePast), or even older games (Joust, Asteriods, etc..). You would figure, hey these games are old and they dont sell them anymore so they are "ok" to download. Then a couple months later, they release the marios for GBA, the Zeldas for GBA and for GC, the atari classics for almost every platform, etc... Now, since you already have the roms of these games, whats the point in going out and spending money on them? Thus the game companies lose out on money for remakes of games that everyone loves, and, in turn, are less likely to make remakes in the future. Now there are a few exeptions, games that are just so great that people will buy them no matter how many copies they already have, but for the vast majority, this isnt the case. So the game companies lose out on money, and we lose out on great remakes.

Then you can say "but what about the companies that dont exist anymore?" well you never know when another company is going to pick up the rights to make / remake / produce those games, it happens all the time.

 

[declaration]

And it is actually _rarely_ a victimless crime.

Lets look at some of the common games, Mario (1,2,3,world,etc...), or Zelda (1,2,LinkToThePast), or even older games (Joust, Asteriods, etc..). You would figure, hey these games are old and they dont sell them anymore so they are "ok" to download. Then a couple months later, they release the marios for GBA, the Zeldas for GBA and for GC, the atari classics for almost every platform, etc... Now, since you already have the roms of these games, whats the point in going out and spending money on them? Thus the game companies lose out on money for remakes of games that everyone loves, and, in turn, are less likely to make remakes in the future. Now there are a few exeptions, games that are just so great that people will buy them no matter how many copies they already have, but for the vast majority, this isnt the case. So the game companies lose out on money, and we lose out on great remakes.

If having Roms of old games stops companies like Nintendo releasing remakes of old games (basix ports mostly though), it will imo be a very good thing.

It will maybe encourage Nintendo to make new more original games for its handheld consoles. Fair enough, i would maybe like 2d Mario platformers on a GBA, but £30 each.... utterly ridiculous.

I, for one, am perfectly happy on missing out on these "great remakes", and maybe Nintendo will realise that they should make some more original games if they want to sell GBAs.

Now, if a game is properly remade and actually shock horror changed really at all, then it will still sell. I bought Mario Kart Super Circuit, because it was different, and imo better than the SNES one.

Releasing remakes of old games for todays prices is just a way of making a quick buck fot games companies and I couldnt feel sorry for them if people refused to buy them.

 

[Phil]

Nintendo just become desperate it shouldn't rely on old ideas, they need a big innovation and i don't think the DS will be it.