Paying For Emulators Is Just Plain Wrong

[Akuma no Houkon]

But, I would say to you that you dont know if emulation and roms are affecting games sales in a POSITIVE way.

From the way the game companies attack emulation, it is clearly OBVIOUS that it effects them in a negative way. If it boosted their sales they would just look the other way, rather, they are taking more and more extreme measures to prevent this. Which means, logicially, it must be having a negative effect.

 

[declaration]

But, I would say to you that you dont know if emulation and roms are affecting games sales in a POSITIVE way.

From the way the game companies attack emulation, it is clearly OBVIOUS that it effects them in a negative way. If it boosted their sales they would just look the other way, rather, they are taking more and more extreme measures to prevent this. Which means, logicially, it must be having a negative effect.

but you previously stated that Games companies dont even know if they are losing money because of emulation and couldnt work it out if they wanted to.

And with the rate at which the Games industry is growing, any claims would be highly debatable, because causation is a complex thing.

Also, games companies arent exactly going all out to banish emulation from existence. It like the Sony piracy PS1 theory. Piracy increased Sony's share of the console market, but they claimed to be stamping down because they had to be seen to be doing something, and couldnt be seen to be *supportive* of piracy.

 

[Huxley]

I agre there ARE positive effects, too. Like my buying an NGPC and Neo-Geo after playing the emulators. And the increased awareness of previously forgotten games. I'm 99% sure that the current trend for retro gaming wouldn't be as widespread as it is now (just go in to any UK newsagent and check out how many videogame magazines feature retro coverage!) if were not for emulation. Granted, this probably doesn't aid the publisher/developer in any significant way, but if it helps games like King of Fighters get publicity over the likes of Tekken, that's a good thing in my book.

In the end, I think emulation is a good thing if used responsibly.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

I agre there ARE positive effects, too. Like my buying an NGPC and Neo-Geo after playing the emulators. And the increased awareness of previously forgotten games. I'm 99% sure that the current trend for retro gaming wouldn't be as widespread as it is now (just go in to any UK newsagent and check out how many videogame magazines feature retro coverage!) if were not for emulation. Granted, this probably doesn't aid the publisher/developer in any significant way, but if it helps games like King of Fighters get publicity over the likes of Tekken, that's a good thing in my book.

In the end, I think emulation is a good thing if used responsibly.

I agree, however, you cannot claim its a victimless crime unless you know everything involved.

And how can you compare KoF to Tekken? KoF is a fighting game, Tekken is a paper weight.

 

[Mosch]

OK, so you say that emulation is not a victimless crime, because no matter how insignificant, there may be a small loss.

I agree with you on that.

But then again.... why don't you do something that has no victim at all? Whatever you do, Akuma, there will ALWAYS be a victim, no matter how insignificant. Go on, name something, I'll name a victim. Only thing is: Emulation is, as far as I think, really low on the ladder. You mention companies that take measures against emulation - I am reminded of Nintendo and Sony. Well, maybe. But which company actually tried to stop Atari emulation because they feared it would affect the sales of their remakes? I am talking about emulation of old systems here, not GBA emulation, or Gamecube or XboX or whatever. Those of course may have a signifcant impact (if emulators would be coded fast enough. GBA is done, true. But how old is the Gamecube now? There is still no compatible emulator for this console.).


Oh, by the way, agreed on that Winwalker thing

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Of course, you can find a victim in everything you do, both good and bad. Me releasing free games I make for a platform, may decrease sales of like commercial games for the same platform. So in realitly the word "victimless" can never actually come to be. Every action creates a victim. You can argue degrees of negativie effects on the victims, sure, and even try and balance those out with the postive effects, but you cannot say something is victimless.

But, I honestly believe, emulation harms the industry more than it helps. However, I am one of the few that will go out and buy the game if its available, even if its a remake, even if I have the ROM. I _do_ have many roms/isos of games that I dont own, but I only have them of games I cannot find, I search ebay, half.com, and my local game stores game bins searching for some of these lost classics, and buy them whenever I find them, even if its a remake. But not everone is like me (most actually are not, no matter how "good" and "honest" they claim to be, when it comes down to it).


Of course WindWaker is crap. Nintendo lost about half of their zelda fanbase with that game, and not just because it was on a GC. When that game was announced, and even after the release, the zelda fanbase split into two MAJOR factions, those that absolutely hated the way the designer went with zelda, and those who loved it. This significantly split the zelda fanbase (even those with GC's) in half. You cannot say this is because of the small amount of GC sales, thats a bogus statement, because N64 suffered from lack of sales as well, and the two zeldas for that sold very well (even though I dont really enjoy them that much they are still 100x better than WindWaker). It was so bad, in fact, that Nintendo released a press release soon after, announcing that they DO plan on making a more "mature" style zelda game for the GC (using the original graphics (kinda like Link for Soul Calibur 2) that nintendo showed at E3 the previous year)

 

[Mosch]

Akuma, I agree with everything you have just written, except that I do not think that retro emulation hurts the industry - if you do not split emulation into new and old consoles, then I agree, emulation DOES hurt the industry. I too am one of the few that even buy games they could get roms for..... but I am the only one here that does it, or so it seems.

Not gonna comment on Zelda, that would be too OT, so let's just say I don't like Windwalker.

 

[thecheat]

And how can you compare KoF to Tekken? KoF is a fighting game, Tekken is a paper weight.

:lol:

 

[Huxley]

Actually, KoF would make a better paperweight. A PS/PS2 CD wouldn't hold down some tissue paper. An MVS/AES cart, on the other hand, would stop a phone book from blowing in a hurricane :rolleyes:

 

[Ringo]

And how can you compare KoF to Tekken? KoF is a fighting game, Tekken is a paper weight.

I know this is getting a bit of topic, nut I just have to comment...

I personally think Tekken is the best fighting game ever. Mostly it's because it was the first fighting game I ever saw, where it made sense for the game to be in 3D instead of 2D. This allowed left/right logic in the game, instead of the traditional weak/mid/hard- or high/low-fightingstyle that usually were used in 2D fighters.

Until Tekken I really wasn't that impressed by 3D fighting games, because I saw no reason WHY they should be in 3D.

Seriousness aside... I love the remark... Just not against Tekken

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

The reasons I hate Tekken are simple, the controls are stiff (very stiff) and the graphics, even for "their time", are pretty bad. I guess I am old fashioned and think a fighting game should be smooth, have good graphics, and have fluid controls that are fast and gameplay that just flows together. See DoA and Soul Calibur for an example of a great fighting game. (also Thrill Kill (final) 4 player just blows Tekken away).

Obviously someone must like it, or they wouldnt keep making sequels, but I find it just as bad (if not worse) than Mortal Combat, those are the two game francies that I will never play. (oh no now I am going to get MK fans saying how good this game is)

This topic shows that we love to go off on a tanget at first opportunity, lol. Add this to the fact that I like to argue the opposing stand point, and we get a recipe for fun!

 

[Ringo]

Ah yes

I used to be a Mortal Kombat fan myself back in the early 90's. They did however loose me after they went 3D....
That just didn't work at all. Seriously... It was utter crap!

And before Mortal Kombat I played Street Fighter a whole lot. But it was for Amiga, so with only one button, it really wasn't that complicated.

Ah well... seems we just can't agree on this point. You know, since you call the controls for Tekken stiff, and I claim those exact same controls are genious.

 

[rcx21000]

Crime != Not Paying. You are saying that it is a crime to use Excel 97, when M$ has made Excel XP. Sure, they are a "victim" (they loose money), but I'm not doing anything bad. Same thing with emulation. I bought Zelda ALTTP (SNES) for much cheaper than the GBA version just so I could use it with the GP32. I don't have a SNES, which might make it slightly illegal, but the systems are sold at a loss. IMHO what I am doing isn't wrong

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

I never said it was a crime, I said it can never be victimless.