Panjoust - A New Simple Platformer

[MarkoeZ]

Good good. so we can probably go ahead with this dragon.

Amigo Bandito: Could you perhaps make some sort of colour sheet with the main colours used in the level backgrounds and obstacles? Then monk would have some guideline. Those colours do not have to be matched ofcourse, but a general direction per level is probably good And feel free to pm to me and Monk if you don't want it to be public or don't have the time (or willingness ofcourse ; ).

Monk: More graphics, eggs in this case, allways good And the current ones are drawn at 24x24 (rule of 8 if possible , so bit more room for detail
Also some technical questions about the graphics, is it possible to provide them with as few borders (empty space) above and to the sides of the dragon? and rule of 8 applied for individual frames of the animation is preferred (not strictly necessary though). And, this might be a bit stretched, perhaps a magenta background? :rolleyes:

Cheers!!

 

[Monk]

24 x 24 - got you, will re-render when I've got a few idle minutes spare (cooking AND rendering right now so I won't leap on it instantly).

Rule of 8 - yup. Have been trying to aim mostly for "about what size?" so far - now I've got an approximate size I need to do any animations so that I have the correct "maximum" size for anything I do, then I can fix on the final precise render size. IMHO. I'm wondering how cheap I can be on the turn-around animation, but I guess we'll find out soon enough!

Anyone got any sampel animations of something changing flight direction suddenly? The other thing to consider always is timing - how many frames to do any specific motion in. But let's not get to far ahead of myself yet!

Oddly enough, I'm just working on "a call for colour help" renders - at the moment I am rendering up 100 frames for an aniamtion showing the effect of dropping my lighting levels or raising them. Planned for, err, hopefully later I was going to do some frames showing the Wyvern with the body only set to various colours (R,G,B set to values like 0,63,127,191,255 in various combinations) so that people could say "There - colour render #3 with lighting at about 2/3 through the lighting brightness".

Either that or be REALLY lazy and just show a few basic textures as they are. Might do that anyway.

Ah! The Lighting Range animation is finsihed. Let's put it in a spoiler zone because it's pretty boring.

Spoiler

Right - well, this is changing JUST the lighting, not the skin colour, as a guide to how the lighting affects the image as opposed to changing colours. I have two lights, a "global" light that provides overall lighting (and the most obvious shadows) and a "Point" light which provides some highlighting and some more subtle shadows. Some items - the eyes, teeth, and anything black - do not change significantly as the lighting level changes. Their colour is fixed, deliberately.

It is hoped this animation may provide a point of reference so someone can indicate "darker" or "lighter" by a percentage or amount/degree. The range depicted here is from zero to twice the brightness used in my usual renders.

Oh yes - and it hangs on the last frame for about a second, deliberately so you can see just how bright the skin is (yet how little the wings are affected, relatively speaking).

Now, where was I? Oh yes - Magenta background! Normally this would be a problem, but I think I can do that!

Ta,

Monk

PS hmm, I should start making notes somewhere - unless we can figure out somewhere to keep these notes as a handy-dandy reference?

 

[Monk]

I got kinda sidetracked so I haven't gotten anywhere at all Wyvern or Dragon wise. but I've managed to play around with some eggs, hopefully honing in on what's required there and remembering the "idiosynchracies" of the software I'm using, when getting down to pixel-level accuracy. Yeuck - why can't people write software that just, like, works? :rolleyes:

Anywho. New range of eggs, better sized (24 * 24 for the most part, apart from the prehistoric egg on the end) with Magenta backgrounds.

Also, if we're still in the area of winding MarkoeZ up with feature ideas, ar ethe propellor-topped eggs going to be rising throughough the level until they are uncollectable? How about eggs underneath parachutes that fall until they vanish under the bottom of the screen or are smashed? Do riders not come out of eggs that crack open? (harking back too closely to Joust there, probably )

I'm hoping to take Egg0 and try a few paint jobs by hand, just as a way of fiddling about when I have an unknown short number of minutes (like I have right now, end of the day waiting for Mrs Monk to return).

 

[Monk]

Well, that was using textures I had. So here's some hand painted ones.

I do believe I hear her now, so since my inspiration has obviously deserted me anyway, I'll call it a day for now!

Ta

 

[MarkoeZ]

whahaha, i've not been working on the graphics today, but thats some freakin eggs the first set was a bit more usable though or a mix of the two ofcourse

Oh, and Pickle tried a first build of Panjoust on a devboard. It started, but had input problems in the level itself. But it worked

Edit: follow the cross platform stuff Here (beta forum)

 

[centus]

Hello guys,

Amazing work you've done here, joust is by far one of my favorite old timers...
One comment, shouldn't the rider of an enemy bird fall off/disappear and the bird go flying out the screen?
That's the way I remembered it on the original PC game, but I might be wrong and it might be a design choice, either way, great work!

 

[MarkoeZ]

Hello guys,

Amazing work you've done here, joust is by far one of my favorite old timers...
One comment, shouldn't the rider of an enemy bird fall off/disappear and the bird go flying out the screen?
That's the way I remembered it on the original PC game, but I might be wrong and it might be a design choice, either way, great work!

Thanks, one of mine too, that's what started this whole thing.

About the birdrider:
In the version i have here on Edit: hmm, win ST on (atart st emulator) the rider just disappears, enemy drops an egg and flies off screen, a new rider appears from the egg if it lands on a platform and you don't get there in time. Then an enemy bird flies in to get the rider and becomes a new enemy.

Not going to do all of that. This game is more focused on moving horizontally. But the enemy flying off witjout the rider could be a nice idea. Small problem, Dragons_Slayer is not active, but i could ask him if his still has the sprites of the enemy without rider.

I will eventually include the PandoraPanic minigame though, and try to get that as close to the original joust as i can. including egg dropping and 2 player mode!

Cheers!

 

[Monk]

2 Player mode would certainly make my boy happier.

As for the sprites - I can't imagine removing the rider would be a terribly hard task. The creature and rider designs were the hard part, removing the rider should be much easier, given the original sprites to work from.

 

[MarkoeZ]

2 Player mode would certainly make my boy happier.

As for the sprites - I can't imagine removing the rider would be a terribly hard task. The creatre and rider deigns were the hard part, removing the rider should be much easier, given the original sprites to work from.

Then i am glad to inform you that i have the basic code for 2 players working, it's as simple as adding an extra hero to the level file No interaction with eachother yet, and rocks still behaved weird, but flying and killing is already possible. I wanted that fixed early since it would otherwise be lots of work to build in. Just has to be refined a bit.

small one: cloudsprites for all levelsets now implemented

 

[MarkoeZ]

For those that do not follow the beta forum:

Hi, update:

Pickle tested the last build, and played it up till level 3! One small problem remaining with the controls, but that was expected. It was some old code, limiting input, keeping the bird grounded the first time. It now flies a bit too eagerly, but that's easily fixed since the problem is found. Level editor also seems to work fine with touchscreen.

Mostly thanks to PokeParadox and Pickle, getting Penjin Pandora ready! (count the P's, new Minigame! ; )

Also been working on the PXML, will only need last minute adjustments probably.
now to get the rotation and input code fixed

This will be ready!!
Cheers!!

MarkoeZ

Edit: Think the input issue is fixed now

 

[Monk]

Cool. And if I go a few days without doing or saying anything, it doesn't mean I've vanished - I'm just occupied elsewhere. Like playing chess with my son who, thanks to the wonder sof LEGO, has decided it's a cool game!

 

[Monk]

OK, teeny tiny update. My time has been too fragmentary lately and looks to be worse for a few days, so I thought I'd rush a couple fo things out for you to comment on. First up is a re-render of the flight with a Magenta background. Yuck:

This isn't "final" but it's hopefully "closer". It's 320 X 200 at the moment which is power of 8 stuff, but I don't want to get too fussy on the exactitude until I KNOW I've got the animation down pat for all of his sequences, to avoid any unessesary complications at my end. I've tweaked camera and figure rotation - hopefully in a way you can't see - to make his flight turn a bit easier.


Secondly is ... how do we want this guy to turn? What kind of speed, what kind of acrobatics? I have been thinking of trying some daft "flip" - like a swimmer in the Olympics - but it occurs to me that perhaps something much simpler and easier, like this:

might be enough? If we go for this kind of simple turn then it's dead easy to make him turn faster or slower - the entire sequence currently lasts for 3 "flight cycle" durations, but could be 2 cycles or 4 at the drop of a hat. even if we keep it fairly simply like this, I might be tempted to throw in a slight "banking" of the creature's body as it turns. Comments, please.

I haven't had time to attempt even a draft "Dive and grab" yet, but will hopefully get a preliminary animation for discussion done... "soon"

Ta,

 

[MarkoeZ]

No problem, been pretty busy with my job myself. And thanks, that magenta saves me a lot of work.

The turnaround: i think it currently looks too much like an object rotating, not a creature changing direction. In it's current form, a banking would probably make a big difference. And it might need a tiny zoom in and out to make it more realisctic, after all the dragon is, for a very short while, flying toward you.

Also i think that the dragon should turn around way faster, like one cycle or less. In the current animation it takes way too long to turnaround, and that will affect gameplay since the movement would become too predictable.

Ideally, but probably hard to animate, the dragon would make one very huge flap, and instantaniously stop, turnaround and fly the other way.

Cheers!

Edit: Thinking: how would it look if it just spreads it's wings, banks, edit: maybe TINY dive or rise, 32 pixels or so /edit, and does a quick turn? Not that far from the current animation, and probably would look believable that it could turn that fast that way. I'd have to see it to be sure though, i'm no animator

Edit 2: If you have the time, a version of the wyvern for the icy level would be awesome. The colours for that level are mostly white and blue, but you could check youtube, most test levels have that set.
Because i've tested, and this dragon works great for the brown level set, looks pretty well for the golden set, and would probably fit the jungle level also (detailed variations for level sets, or other dragons can be added once this first one is done and more time is available at your side)

Edit 3: While i'm editing, i did not see a AWESOME DRAGON!!! posted by me here yet thanks!

 

[MarkoeZ]

Well, not making another edit.

idea: A level, beat the dragon.

It flies, deadly on contact, basic movement up and down, with some obstacles for the player, you. Reach the end of the level before the dragon does (rescuing something?).

Monk, is it possible to have one of the other dragons rendered in the current style? Would only have to fly for this purpose. Current wyvern is possible too ofcourse

Cheers!

 

[Monk]

No problem, been pretty busy with my job myself. And thanks, that magenta saves me a lot of work.

It's disgusting, but I switch to another colour when I have to actually work on an animation, to save my eyes!

The turnaround:

Check - needs to be more acrobatic. I HOPE to find time to play with this before you get a chance to reply, but we'll see how the day goes.

Edit 2: If you have the time, a version of the wyvern for the icy level would be awesome. The colours for that level are mostly white and blue, but you could check youtube, most test levels have that set.

We'll have to start recording the details for the materials I think - it shouldn't be too hard to produce a slightly different coloured version. When I get a minute I'll locate a youtube video, capture the screen, and try to work out some colours that'd be OKish as a starting point at least. Rendering is the easiest bit.

Edit 3: While i'm editing, i did not see a AWESOME DRAGON!!! posted by me here yet thanks!

Nope! I was busy, far too busy to post a new dragon. Here's a dragon for now though - I'll try and beef it up by the next time I post, but I've got to go and vote now lest the opportunity escapes me.

Ta

 

[Monk]

OK - MilDragon attempt #2. A bit nastier (but I forgot to turn some of the shadows on! Doh!):

 

[Monk]

An icier Wyvern, ready for comment:

 

[Monk]

Hmmm.... OK, working on improving the turn around:

Notes: this is a great example of why I started out with just the whole object turning - to get the timing right. I'm still not happy with the timing (to be arty-farty "I'm not feeling it") but to get the head motion (which I started for this speed) and leg and tail motion (not started) right they need to suit the speed of the whole body turn. I hope I'll have some time later to look at this further, but redoing the abodomen, chest, neck1, neck2, ...neck 5, head, tail1, tail2, tail3...tail18 (each seperate aniamteable joints) several times would make me scream.

I'm also increasingly not keen on bringing him towards camera for a number of reasons:

1. He is supposed to fill the frame as much as possible when flying, but bringing him towards camera will make him larger - so either he can't fill the frame normally of the frame size will change for turning around.

2. If he comes closer, he would logically "need" to fly away from us a bit to get back to his original size/position...urgh. Unless we have two sets of animations, one going in one direction and another, larger set travelling the other way. Which would introduce other problems.

Having produced the above, I sped up the turn and went "ARGH" loudly as all the chest, neck1-5, and head movmeent looked just awful against the changed body speed. I need to eat - later I'll hopefully post several basic speed tests for people to vote on, then I can refine the favourite - how's that sound?

 

[Bosbeetle]

wow amazing stuff monk

 

[Monk]

Thanks Bosbeetle. I'm hoping that I can add significantly to the game

Right - starting again "from scratch" (well, from the flight cycle) here's some timing choices/options/examples.

There are just "object rotations" to try and get a speed that, on average, nobody likes. I mean... heh, committes

There's no banking, no head leading the movement, no legs or tail trailing behind the main movement - just a body turn to get the speed

02A is a full cycle - it takes a whole flight cycle for the critter to turn:

02B is significantly faster, with the action happening in the middle of the cycle (while this means it's easy to add some movement of head and neck beforehand and some tail movement after, we can still start the motion earlier or later than it is shown here):
[

02C is the fastest of the lot - if we go any faster than this then, at this frame rate, we'd be back to flipping the character. There is room between each of these animations to go slower or faster (so we could opt for "between 02B and 02C", for example):

02D is the same speed (FAST!!) as 02C, but I have moved the turn forward, so that it happens earlier on in the cycle - almost, in fact, at the very start - there is JUST ABOUt time to put in some leading head/neck action, though not much and no subtle.

I'm hoping to use the fact that work is "a bit here and a bit there" today to let me combine your thoughts with mine and not redo too much work too many times. So we're shift-working on the animations, in a way Ideally I'll now move on to looking at the "snatch and grab" type animation for the Wyvern to make effective use of the time I'm trying to give today, before my paid work catches me up and I have no choice but to do some REAL work!

Ta,

PS my personal favourite is 02B so far - it's faster than 02A, but gives enough room that we can see what's happening (where 02C is over as soon as it's begun). 02B also leaves lots of room before and after for me to add in more subtle movement of chest, neck, head and tail, tail, tail tail... but don't let that stop you from saying that you want "like 02C, but faster!")