Pandora's Design

[JakeK]

When we get real pics then it may look a bit different. A computer image can look very different to the real thing. I'm not saying we stop giving opinions on design but rather be more open than thinking the final product is going to look exactly like the render, because no doubt it will be a bit different. I still stand by my opinions on changing some of the parts on the Pandora to look more modern.

Keeping its functionality while making it look a bit better shouldn't be that hard. I don't want a redesign, no way! I just want things like matte black used instead of it being shiny, font on the keyboard to be straight sharp characters. The stuff I mentioned earlier.

I mentioned the Pandora on the Steam User Forums (no doubt most of you have heard of Steam). Only a few replied and most of them mentioned that they thought it was ugly. Others that posted thought I was talking about some band. Overall I got like 7 replies and that was it.

 

[pedrocasilva]

pedrocasilva:

Just because you're a design student doesn't excuse your neglect for the practical reasons behind Pandora's design, such as the need to not infringe costly patents, and keep everything under a budget that is likely lower than Sony's PSP's. Unit price in this case is irrelevant.

Pandora is (hopefully) not after the "Designers Don't Do PC" crowd, but rather after those that seek function and value above all else. I don't know what your definition of design is, but for a product such as this it's practicality in addition to solely aesthetics.
Design patents? If design patenting was a problem... the DS-like design would have to go. It's not like the pandora guys have to make exact clones of those (and that they'll get sued for it), for example GP2X is pretty much like the first gameboy advance model was (although sleeker)...

Still, even if it came down to that... I'd urge them to do some experimenting in order to find a better balance, possibly various possible prototypes (I mean, real different paths to take, not same-design just revisions); a lot of the concepts made by brands for example, are just a "what-if" scenario and are not meant for production from the moment they're shown... but you never know till you try. I really think there's some problems inherent to this one that need to be solved.

Also regarding the "just because you're a design student" comment... I'm not using the "design student" as a argument to say "you should listen to me" (seems like the way you're going/could be interpreted) otherwise I'd say that in my very first post regarding this matter or something. I just said I was because I was already being targeted as a "guy who only pays attention to design" my point being... there's a pretty big reason that I do... But the fact that I am a design student is important for my stance regarding this, my motives... but it's not irrelevant for how you should take my arguments, perceive them; or influence your opinion towards them. It's not a fallacy nor something in the lines of "I know and you don't". (in short, it doesn't matter what I am, unless you're going after my motives)

Personally with pandora I'm going after a pure gaming machine, so... if anything... I don't really care about the keyboard; I'm not saying for you guys to cut it though, I understand that's the direction you want to go with it (and I'm fine with it), I'm just saying that the solution to fitting it is is not optimal and thus needs rethinking rather than being set on stone.

When we get real pics then it may look a bit different. A computer image can look very different to the real thing. I'm not saying we stop giving opinions on design but rather be more open than thinking the final product is going to look exactly like the render, because no doubt it will be a bit different. I still stand by my opinions on changing some of the parts on the Pandora to look more modern.
On my part... I'm already giving it that discount.

the further we go along with it the more finalized it'll be though.

Keeping its functionality while making it look a bit better shouldn't be that hard. I don't want a redesign, no way! I just want things like matte black used instead of it being shiny, font on the keyboard to be straight sharp characters. The stuff I mentioned earlier.
I wish those were my biggest queries, I don't really care about brightness of the material though, although I'll admit most shiny approaches tend to get fingerprints and are more towards the "how it looks" (when clean) than being functional/pratical. (and in that sense I tend to prefer matte finishes too)

I mentioned the Pandora on the Steam User Forums (no doubt most of you have heard of Steam). Only a few replied and most of them mentioned that they thought it was ugly. Others that posted thought I was talking about some band. Overall I got like 7 replies and that was it.
That pretty much sums my point about the masses reaction to it.

More people than that clicked and didn't comment though. I believe if it was sleeker perhaps (just perhaps) you could have sprouted more interest. I at least believe that, first appearances do count when seducing a client.

 

[nubie]

I hope we can just ignore him, and his very good looking but impractical alligator boots, with sliding keyboards.

Honestly, so you don't like it, I haven't seen one constructive render from you, or a line drawing on a napkin, or how the hinge would function and be robust and inexpensive.

Are you seriously a design student? Of "design" or of engineering, because engineering costs money, don't be ignorant.


Please go away if you haven't got anything better to do. Or wait to see one and then figure out if it is any good. Case in point, the auto magazine showed me the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris, they said the Yaris was clearly the better looking, although from the pictures I strongly disagreed. These were real cars, but in a magazine.

I since have seen several Yaris and Fit cars, and now I see they were right, I very much like the lines on the Yaris, and the Fit looks almost puggish in comparison.

You have seen renders of a projected future device, one for which the keys or layout and ports has not even been finalized. SO STFU about it.

Wait until we have one and then see what it looks like, you can surely appreciate the difference something as simple as font and key design is. Another car case in point, I have a 84 VW GTi, I had an 83 regular VW Rabbit before that, same car, in fact I swapped nearly all the GTi gear I had been running on the Rabbit into the GTi (Engine, struts, transmissiont, wheel, seats, brakes, hood hinges, don't ask - nearly everyone has a hood latch failure story). To bring me to the point, the GTi looks like a much sleeker car, and most of it is just a vinyl trim package and some aluminum wheels partially painted black (of course the whole car was designed by Guigaro, but that isn't really the point).

So the 'trim' will make a huge difference. As will having it in person.

As for the "busy-ness" that bothers you so much in the design, couldn't it just be the font and key styling that are bothering you?

In my opinion it looks tons better than the "million chiclet key" thing that most smart phones have going. It is for playing games and being a computer, it thus has game controls and a keyboard.

As for the analog gripe, just try it first, for pete's sake, just try it first. The videos show that it is very easy and comfortable to use the Analog's the pandora will be small and it will work.

If you can't accept this, just leave, go buy a laptop, or one of the new microsoft dealios, or an Itouch, or anything else.

If you think that "people won't like something ugly", have you ever seen married people or PC cases, or Fords, or Buicks? It isn't that big of a deal.

As soon as they see a miniature device with more than 3x the potential of theirs they will want it.

 

[TheLonelyGod]

Hey don't make this a flame war. . .

 

[JakeK]

In my opinion it looks tons better than the "million chiclet key" thing that most smart phones have going. It is for playing games and being a computer, it thus has game controls and a keyboard.

As for the analog gripe, just try it first, for pete's sake, just try it first. The videos show that it is very easy and comfortable to use the Analog's the pandora will be small and it will work.

If you think that "people won't like something ugly", have you ever seen married people or PC cases, or Fords, or Buicks? It isn't that big of a deal.

As soon as they see a miniature device with more than 3x the potential of theirs they will want it.

It will have a better layout than most smart phones. The keys are so small on those things that it actually takes effort to press the right button.

Looking at the analog stick videos it looks extremely easy to use, smooth and precise. I didn't think a clamshell could have analog sticks but I love them.

Fords are ugly? Awww I like Fords (really just the 4 cylinder cars )

Definately, once they find out that it can out-play some current handhelds and emulate all the classics plus play the excellent homebrew that the community produces people will buy it.

I'd like to know what is happening with marketing of the Pandora, I can think of a few things to do with it.

 

[pedrocasilva]

I hope we can just ignore him, and his very good looking but impractical alligator boots, with sliding keyboards.

I don't think you want a response on this one.

If you want to ignore me... just do, replying to me saying that you hope to ignore me is not that effective.

Honestly, so you don't like it, I haven't seen one constructive render from you, or a line drawing on a napkin, or how the hinge would function and be robust and inexpensive.

So I'm supposed to do renders to get a point across now? and when it's not like pandora team is asking for renders to base their design off, so it could well be a waste of time.

That, and the fact that I currently don't have Maya installed, my graphics card is not modded to be a quadro and 3D is not my specialty.

I could do a drawing, but then again, I have no scanner in this part of the house and I already gave examples with images of what a best direction would be for me (that you say that you dislike in the first place) so it's not like the point didn't get across so... why should I?

My comments for one are not destructive or insulting; quite the contrary, or rather... I'd say if anything they're concerned; so I'd say that rather than trolling I'm trying to be constructive.

If you're entitled to your opinion without anyone saying "get out of here" to you (and you are)... so am I.

Are you seriously a design student? Of "design" or of engineering, because engineering costs money, don't be ignorant.

I don't see the focus on me being a design student, yes I am, but like I said in my previous post, I don't want that to be the center of the discussion regarding my posts; it doesn't matter, or rather it just matters for my motives and perception towards it; if you really need to know and have a reason for them.

But yes; I'm studying design.

Engineering costs money, yes, hence why you won't make manufacture 30 prototypes of pandora outside case; but... renders and schetches are pretty much for free (expect the working hours); so that's no excuse.

Please go away if you haven't got anything better to do. Or wait to see one and then figure out if it is any good. Case in point, the auto magazine showed me the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris, they said the Yaris was clearly the better looking, although from the pictures I strongly disagreed. These were real cars, but in a magazine.

I since have seen several Yaris and Fit cars, and now I see they were right, I very much like the lines on the Yaris, and the Fit looks almost puggish in comparison.

So... you send away everyone you don't agree with?

And I'm the one who apparently is not constructive?

regarding cars and other commercial products it's often a matter of taste, as both look should look pretty professional, you might still dislike one or like the other better, but that doesn't necessarily make one worse; but I don't think that's the case with pandora; I can look at two finalized cars and judge them upon that, having a preference, but pandora just seems to me to not having taken the best direction at some parts (as in not finalized) and that has still quite a long way to go until it should be finalized regarding appearance/funcionality.

You have seen renders of a projected future device, one for which the keys or layout and ports has not even been finalized. SO STFU about it.

What's the problem about talking about it then? I've seen them, it's only natural that I have a opinion about it.

And it's not like this is the wrong thread to voice it.

As for the "busy-ness" that bothers you so much in the design, couldn't it just be the font and key styling that are bothering you?

No, that's the least of my concerns. I know that's not final (still, could look better at this point of conclusion, but it doesn't worry me)

In my opinion it looks tons better than the "million chiclet key" thing that most smart phones have going. It is for playing games and being a computer, it thus has game controls and a keyboard.

depends on the key's, but chiclet keys are not so bad given that it would integrate better with x, y, a, b keys and the fact that it would be easier to clean over normal keys; it might be way worse to press given the keyboard size though

In the way they're being used... I'd prefer them like that (this said I'd prefer not having them at all) if... the keyboard was retractable... I believe I'd rather have a full fledged one, kinda like the umpc's; and in a way similar to what it is now, but would already be more functional IMO.

As for the analog gripe, just try it first, for pete's sake, just try it first. The videos show that it is very easy and comfortable to use the Analog's the pandora will be small and it will work.

I've simulated it; I dislike the setup and think it's only there because the keyboard is on the lower part.

what I dislike the most about them is how forced it looks and how crowded it makes the base of the pandora look; it clones DS design but then goes the opposite way, DS is harmonized and lets a lot of space to breathe... Pandora is just overcrowded.

If you can't accept this, just leave, go buy a laptop, or one of the new microsoft dealios, or an Itouch, or anything else.

That's the bullseye you know? instead of sending people to buy those over design queries... you should be catering them into buying this one; and that's only at the distance of being able to be considered a object of desire due to it's looks and functionality.

If you think that "people won't like something ugly", have you ever seen married people or PC cases, or Fords, or Buicks? It isn't that big of a deal.

that's the thing that confuses me, saying that something ugly is ok, or that people don't matter... yes they do, since it's the first thing you see about the product, you'll either be impressed (thus interested) or indifferent... and no manufacturer wants indifference toward it's products; they say it's even better to have people badmouthing them than ignoring them altogether.

As soon as they see a miniature device with more than 3x the potential of theirs they will want it.

I doubt it, more people give importance to looks than you think, some give too many attention to them only, I'll agree.

I'm trying to see it as a whole though, but I'm still not satisfied with the product due to design alone.

Hey don't make this a flame war. . .

I agree.

I already voiced my opinion, and it's not like it's gonna change, and I'm not trying to change those who like the design (as in, attacking them or not accepting it); so I'm trying to rest my case.

EDITS: tried to put the quote tags working; but I couldn't find the problem, sorry for the people reading this.

 

[JakeK]

I cant work it out. (The quote thing)

Just remember nubie (and others) this isn't some kind of communist forum, pedrocasilva is entitled to his opinion as much as you are yours.

The Pandora was built by the opinions of people, so I see no problem with what pedrocasilva says. He is trying to contribute to the Pandora as much as you.

pedrocasilva is right in one aspect though, looks is a big thing in todays society. No one goes out and buys a shitty looking car even if it has all the bells and whistles. This applies to almost everything. People like showing off their stuff because it looks good. Products are designed around this ideology, its undeniable.

 

[Yrx]

I like how it looks. It was a little weird at first, but it grew on me really quick. Actually, it was an almost identical reaction to the one I had when they revealed the Wii remote. Then again, I'm not finicky. It has EXCELLENT gaming controls, incredible power, and built-in screen protection. And I'm sure touchscreens are still usable even when not in tablet form.

 

[robox]

I just had to log on and say this. One of the things that really has me worried about the pandora is it's design.

Frankly it's sucks, seriously. Many have vioced thier concerns but so far they seem to be falling on deaf ears. I want the pandora to be a success, the interior from the sounds of it looks is fantastic but the exterior is just poor.
I am sure criag is on a tight budget but surely he should consider paying for some quality designs/concepts. Hell he could even hold a competition, the console is opensource after all, i am sure alot of talented designers will submit some fantastic designs. It would also get the pandora some publicity, basicly it would killing two birds with one stone.

Personally i would like to see this clamshell design dropped for maybe a slider. It would make it more compact since it wouldn't have to be opened to view the screen, so you can watch vidoes, check mail ...etc.

Also i would like to see a rugged design, after all this handheld is for niche market. Currently i dont think there is a rugged handheld of this nature on the market. High resonlution(backlight) screen, rugged case, portable gaming, homebrew, emulation and wifi would be a very nice combo of features that might give the pandora a competetive advantage.

Also maybe a compact flash slot as opposed to the currently daul sd card slot. Heck you might actaully be able to get compact flash to sd adapter with daul sd slots.


The main reason i am suggesting a compact flash slot is because you can buy compact flash 3g modems, so in the scenario where you can't acess a wifi connection you can use the modem to gain access to the net.
Also the ability to use cards with greater memory capacities and faster read and write times. Basically compact flash slot add alot of flexiblity to the pandora, people can buy adaptors and use which ever memory they want if they wish not to use compact flash memory itself.

I think i have probably said too much, i would like to have emphasized the good aspects of the pandora awsell but i am pretty sure we are all aware of those, so there was no piont in repeating them, i felt i had to bring to light the major negatives aspects of the pandora, as these must be rectified (in my opinion) if the pandora is to be a sucess. To do so we need to get it into the hands of many people as possible, i dont know what marketing strategies criag has in plan for pandora but one thing i know is we will might see many ports but if we want to see something inovative we need to get into the hands of us many people as possible. This will not only make it a finacail success but also we will have a good stream of content for it.


The pandora is opensource after all, the more people that have it the more interest things we will see.

Ok i think the piont i was trying to make got lost in my rant Lol.

Summary
Improved desgin, (imo, dump the current clamshell for a slider)
Rugged Case (give it more durablility and seriousness)
Compact flash memory?

 

[Chip]

Yet, you seem to think something like "I value this more" or "can't have it all" or even "yeah, that's a better design but that costs $1500" (while I want sleek design, not the same hardware/branding as others) and so... I disagree, and I don't think it's bad to demand more of a product that at first glance has a big flaw that compromises it's market acceptance.

I do maintain you cannot have it all. Any radical redesign of Pandora would incur at least two of the following three penalties: Significant price increase, significant size increase, or reduction in functionality. Pandora is as well designed as it can be, given the numerous constraints and requirements involved. It has to be a clamshell design, because that's what most of us want. It can't have a sliding keyboard or flip-over LCD, because we can't afford the licensing. We need full gaming controls, a qwerty keyboard, and all the ports and connectors in the current design. Oh, and it all has to fit in a normal pants pocket.

Given those restrictions, how would you build it? You can't just point at a few UMPCs with 8-digit design budgets and say "like that", because they don't fit any of the requirements. It's not just the hardware that makes them so much more expensive then Pandora. It is the team of industrial designers, patent lawyers, software and hardware engineers, marketing experts, and focus group researchers that add a lot to the final price. If you want a miracle of beauty and industrial design, that's the sort of team you need working on it.

We have four guys in different countries, fiddling this together as a fun and (hopefully) profitable project.


In any case, the point is moot. The physical layout is finalized. There may be minor cosmetic changes before Pandora goes to the assembly line, but that's it. If you have some constructive ideas for minor cosmetic changes, by all means share them.

 

[A_Llama]

Not only do I fail to see how a slider would be better (wouldn't the screen then always be 180 degrees from the controls?) I was under the impression that it was PATENTED.

I for one think that the current design is great. If someone actually comes up with a feasable alternate design then i'll be willing to listen but most of you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

 

[Shirohagen]

I think the clamshell type design is fantastic, that's definitely the way to do it. I wouldn't change anything fundamental about the way the Pandora is engineered even if I could, apart from maybe a standard SD Card slot, but I'm not complaining about the fundamentals.

The only changes I would make cosmetically would be as nice as possible a finish for the body itself, to remove large text labeling of the ports on the outside, to have the LEDs visible when the lid is closed, and to do something about the ugly large letters printed on the keys, which do make it look a bit homemade currently. I'd like to see everything is similarly coloured as possible so it looks as slick as it can. I'm aware all we've seen so far are renders which I admit have worried me a bit, but I trust the guys behind it and they may well have already addressed this sort of stuff.

Of course, the largest cosmetic aspect of the design which hasn't been addressed is the logo and identity which I expect will appear on the machine somewhere. I'm keen to see what decisions have been taken on that...

...oh, and it annoys me the ports aren't centred on the front, but that's just being picky...

...I'm REALLY looking forward to getting one, I've diverted my F200 fund for it...

®

 

[Karel Jansens]

, apart from maybe a standard SD Card slot,

Doesn't the Pandora come with two SD-slots?

 

[Shirohagen]

I thought they were mini-type ones, which is fine, just would be nice to use the SD cards I already have and transfer things easily between devices with SD slots. The mini type fit in an adapter, but I could be wrong...

It's no big deal...

®

 

[Chip]

I thought they were mini-type ones

They are full size SDHC card slots.

 

[Shirohagen]

Fantastic, I'm pretty happy with that then!

®

 

[Paradox]

I thought they were mini-type ones

They are full size SDHC card slots.


2x8GB 16gb just from SD cards?

 

[pedrocasilva]

I do maintain you cannot have it all. Any radical redesign of Pandora would incur at least two of the following three penalties: Significant price increase, significant size increase, or reduction in functionality. Pandora is as well designed as it can be, given the numerous constraints and requirements involved. It has to be a clamshell design, because that's what most of us want. It can't have a sliding keyboard or flip-over LCD, because we can't afford the licensing. We need full gaming controls, a qwerty keyboard, and all the ports and connectors in the current design. Oh, and it all has to fit in a normal pants pocket.
I'd disagree on really needing a keyboard (but I understand that's not even being discussed) still... does for example GP2x have one, and really need it? I don't think so; I'd pretty much value having the option, not make it standard with the current design form we have.

I don't know about those patents and patent costs though, do things varying from cellphones, pda's, umpc's etc pay royalties for just that? I mean and there could be a work around in the system to get similar results.

Still, my biggest concern about being a touch screen in the upper screen is how useless it looks for me, I won't use it in that position, just like I wouldn't use it on a portable that doesn't have a "tablet" option facing outside. to be honest, with the current design if taking the touch screen out was a option (and meant a real difference in price) and I was at the helm of the project... I would.

yes, a screen facing outside would be more vulnerable to scratching, but I simply don't see myself using it in the position it's in (and thus, think it's wasted potential), when, in other form models I believe it could be a real advantage in interface. (it would need to be able to be faced outside while featuring some buttons for easy control like a D-pad and standard action buttons though)

Given those restrictions, how would you build it? You can't just point at a few UMPCs with 8-digit design budgets and say "like that", because they don't fit any of the requirements. It's not just the hardware that makes them so much more expensive then Pandora. It is the team of industrial designers, patent lawyers, software and hardware engineers, marketing experts, and focus group researchers that add a lot to the final price. If you want a miracle of beauty and industrial design, that's the sort of team you need working on it.
Their prices don't come from design alone (aren't they 4 digits though?); they come from what's in it. I mean... if pandora was a UMPC with intel x86 cpu's and the like (and their licencing)... it would most likely go up to those kinds of prices too; that or fall in the Asus EEE line; depending on the target market.

We have four guys in different countries, fiddling this together as a fun and (hopefully) profitable project.
And that's certainly a good start along with the community w have; I just can't look at it right now and say that it couldn't be better; I can say that the only thing holding it back IMO is the design though.

In any case, the point is moot. The physical layout is finalized. There may be minor cosmetic changes before Pandora goes to the assembly line, but that's it. If you have some constructive ideas for minor cosmetic changes, by all means share them.
That's a shame then (but expected); cosmetic changes alone won't solve most of the queries I have with it.

 

[Alex.]

QUOTE
I'd disagree on really needing a keyboard (but I understand that's not even being discussed) still... does for example GP2x have one, and really need it? I don't think so; I'd pretty much value having the option, not making it standard

Why do you go after one of the core features that distinguishes Pandora from all other gaming handhelds? The keyboard will be useful for all kinds of activities ranging from games to web browsing. Making it a standard feature will encourage the creation of software that benefits from its use.

QUOTE
Still, my biggest concern about being a touch screen in the upper screen is how useless it looks for me, I won't use it in that position, just like I wouldn't use it on a portable that doesn't have a "tablet" option facing outside.

Do you plan to use the stylus as a virtual hammer, or do your tapping needs limit on regular touching? Pandora will be small, and provided the clam hinge will be solid enough, there's no way you'll have any kind of balance problems using it.

QUOTE
Their prices don't come from design alone; they come from what's in it. I mean...

Be sure that their design budget is included in the price, especially considering that they don't sell by the millions. But wait, you already knew that, and what you really meant was

 

[robox]

I do maintain you cannot have it all. Any radical redesign of Pandora would incur at least two of the following three penalties: Significant price increase, significant size increase, or reduction in functionality. Pandora is as well designed as it can be, given the numerous constraints and requirements involved. It has to be a clamshell design, because that's what most of us want. It can't have a sliding keyboard or flip-over LCD, because we can't afford the licensing. We need full gaming controls, a qwerty keyboard, and all the ports and connectors in the current design. Oh, and it all has to fit in a normal pants pocket.
I'd disagree on really needing a keyboard (but I understand that's not even being discussed) still... does for example GP2x have one, and really need it? I don't think so; I'd pretty much value having the option, not make it standard with the current design form we have.

I don't know about those patents and patent costs though, do things varying from cellphones, pda's, umpc's etc pay royalties for just that? I mean and there could be a work around in the system to get similar results.

Still, my biggest concern about being a touch screen in the upper screen is how useless it looks for me, I won't use it in that position, just like I wouldn't use it on a portable that doesn't have a "tablet" option facing outside. to be honest, with the current design if taking the touch screen out was a option (and meant a real difference in price) and I was at the helm of the project... I would.

yes, a screen facing outside would be more vulnerable to scratching, but I simply don't see myself using it in the position it's in (and thus, think it's wasted potential), when, in other form models I believe it could be a real advantage in interface. (it would need to be able to be faced outside while featuring some buttons for easy control like a D-pad and standard action buttons though)

Given those restrictions, how would you build it? You can't just point at a few UMPCs with 8-digit design budgets and say "like that", because they don't fit any of the requirements. It's not just the hardware that makes them so much more expensive then Pandora. It is the team of industrial designers, patent lawyers, software and hardware engineers, marketing experts, and focus group researchers that add a lot to the final price. If you want a miracle of beauty and industrial design, that's the sort of team you need working on it.
Their prices don't come from design alone (aren't they 4 digits though?); they come from what's in it. I mean... if pandora was a UMPC with intel x86 cpu's and the like (and their licencing)... it would most likely go up to those kinds of prices too; that or fall in the Asus EEE line; depending on the target market.

We have four guys in different countries, fiddling this together as a fun and (hopefully) profitable project.
And that's certainly a good start along with the community w have; I just can't look at it right now and say that it couldn't be better; I can say that the only thing holding it back IMO is the design though.

In any case, the point is moot. The physical layout is finalized. There may be minor cosmetic changes before Pandora goes to the assembly line, but that's it. If you have some constructive ideas for minor cosmetic changes, by all means share them.
That's a shame then (but expected); cosmetic changes alone won't solve most of the queries I have with it.

LOL, whats with the I..,I....,I...?

All you seem to talk about is "I would like....", "I wouldn't like........". It sound like all you seem to care about it yourself and not what would appeal to the target market/audience the pandora is being designed for. Seriously the handheld is not being made for you alone.

Starting your sentences with the first person pronoun "I" doesn't really add credibility to your arguements because immediately people would know that you are talking about yourself, your personl preferences and not what would be best for everyone in general. You can't expect every aspect of the pandora to be catered to your needs.


I agree with you on one thing though and that is the current design of the pandora is not every appealing. Like i suggested before maybe a competition should be held to design the pandora, i am sure we would see some very interesting results. Criag can set out the dimensions, so designers can base thier designs on that ensuring the any submited design will already be in some way compatible with the current hardware.

There is nothing wrong with the shape, it just needs a few superficail tweaks.