QFT
Pandora OS Vs Android
- Thread starter pmprog
- Start date
QFT
Wally
I am a banana!
Way to go Jeff!
skeezix
Internal Development
Of course it is 
People are bitching about stuff, is all.
jeff
People are bitching about stuff, is all.jeff
I go on a vacation and come back to find this thread... geeez
As you know, I'm open and honest, and I will let you know my views on things here...
Most of you know, that I'm tied together with the community. I came from the community, I still am in the community, and therefore, I'm also the one who communicated mostly with the devs and everyone on IRC. And you can be sure I will do that, as quite a few guys became part of my family.
I can't count how much notaz, DJWillis, skeezix or other devs helped get over bad times in the project.
They were always helpful, listened to all my worries and really brightened me up in dark times.
I've grown quite attached to them, and I'm really really thankful for that.
When I joined the project, I offered Craig that I can help with the community, talk with everyone, offer support, take preorders... however, as I didn't have any money nor could code, I clearly said that's all I can offer.
I was pretty much trusted by everyone in the community (and still hope I am nowadays ), so that was of some value to the project
I told him this needs to be 100% working and production ensured, before I join in and get money from all the preorders.
Craig told me it was - and this was a little lie to get me on board. Otherwise, I would've probably skipped out at that point (I'm a very very careful guy).
As I know now, Craig knew not everything was 100% set - but I know he also was optimistic and positive, that everything would be finished until December 2008, as he promised.
So this wasn't really a lie - Craig was 100% sure himself it will work just fine... he basically thought he can confirm that to me upfront.
I think this is one of the biggest causes for drama: Craig is sure about something and announces it upfront - and when something doesn't work out, drama is born.
Another example is the 1GHz Pandora for the qemu-Team: Craig spoke to me about that and we agreed to send the team a unit.
The only one I had was one where nubs were not working, so I wanted to send them one from the next prototype batch.
Craig didn't know this and now mentioned here they got the unit already - which is not the case.
So again, while this sounded like a lie, it wasn't one - he was sure the unit was out there already.
From 2008 to 2011, I basically was the communicator: He told me what happened and I tried to tell the community.
And worked together with the devs to get the OS going (though I couldn't help much with that, just speak to them and test).
There were also sudden announcements and changes of plans (i.e. selling Premium upgrades for faster deliveries), which I didn't really know of and read them first here on the boards.
Craig probably didn't tell me about that, because he knew I wouldn't simply agree to such thing... I'm careful and always try to be on both the teams and the communities site.
When these upgrades occured, my customers also asked for them - so I couldn't simply refuse that... I was therefore forced into doing stuff like that.
However - if the premium upgrades wouldn't have happened, OpenPandora Ltd. wouldn't have survived and gone bust.
So while it was an annoying thing for many in the community, it saved the whole Pandora project.
It went okay until mid 2011, when CC was not able to provide anymore boards.
That's when Craig was going to give up - and finally gave me the okay to look for investors and move the production to Germany.
I did the best I could, and it seems to have worked out.
We're now financially stabilized, production is running good, I'm slowly catching with all the work (eMails, etc.), old preorders are being delivered as well, etc.
So I think I did a good job organizing this and am now more involved than before, where I basically only was telling you guys what happened and was hoping to get my share of units from Craig
As skeezix said: Craig is no bad guy.
He is a typical business guy and tries to sell things as good as possible, sometimes adding more to them than they really are (which is normal in marketing ways).
In the way he posts, he's pretty good pissing off other people - though having met him personally, I know it's often just his type of humour.
And yes, one thing I don't like is that he often only contacts you if he needs something from you - and once he doesn't need anything, that's it (one thing that notaz doesn't like, as it's not community-like).
Well, that's Craig... he's a person with flaws as everyone is, but so am I.
If would've just been me, I would've never started something like that.
It takes crazy guys like Craig to start such a project.
However, he should never do it alone - as he is not pretty good dealing with the community - and that's what the Pandora is and should always be: A device for the community.
There were a lot of times where I would've just quit myself - but I was deeply tied into the project thanks to the outstanding preorders I had...
So basically:
Craig:
Good ideas, crazy enough to start risky projects, not very good dealing with developers or the community.
Should only post once things are 100% sure, in order to avoid drama
EvilDragon:
Very careful, organizing anything very thoughtful, good in dealing with developers and the community.
Wouldn't take a risk, no business guy.
MWeston:
Awesome designer
Fatih:
Important for all the chinese stuff (LCDs, LCD Cables, etc.)
All the helping devs from the community:
Mandatory
I learned one thing from the project:
It wouldn't have worked if anyone of us was missing.
I wouldn't have taken the risk, Craig would've probably pissed off all the community.
However, for any project like the Pandora 2, things need to be more optimized.
And that's what I make clear here.
I will be involved in Pandora 2, if...
1. ... I organize and handle the PCB production here in Germany with GC
2. ... only posts and announcements will be made, when everyone in the team agrees.
3. ... no one can do important decisions alone. We are different persons with different views, we should work together to get the best ouf of it.
We now got a good company for the cases in UK. We got a good company for the PCBs in Germany.
We gained a lot of experience with the Pandora 1.
These points are all important and good for a possible Pandora 2.
The main guy behind the Pandora 1 was Craig, who worked with Michael, Fatih, Dave and me to produce this neat piece of hardware.
The main guy behind the Pandora 2 should be the team - no single person.
If this will not be the case, I won't be involved.
As usual, I will take care that the community plays a very important part here as well.
So... now you know my point of view
Craig is not evil, I am no saint. We are two different persons, and together with the rest of the team, we can move mountains.
But we all need to work together to give the community a way better experience than they had with the Pandora 1.
The spirit is there - let's do it
As you know, I'm open and honest, and I will let you know my views on things here...
Most of you know, that I'm tied together with the community. I came from the community, I still am in the community, and therefore, I'm also the one who communicated mostly with the devs and everyone on IRC. And you can be sure I will do that, as quite a few guys became part of my family.
I can't count how much notaz, DJWillis, skeezix or other devs helped get over bad times in the project.
They were always helpful, listened to all my worries and really brightened me up in dark times.
I've grown quite attached to them, and I'm really really thankful for that.
When I joined the project, I offered Craig that I can help with the community, talk with everyone, offer support, take preorders... however, as I didn't have any money nor could code, I clearly said that's all I can offer.
I was pretty much trusted by everyone in the community (and still hope I am nowadays
), so that was of some value to the project I told him this needs to be 100% working and production ensured, before I join in and get money from all the preorders.
Craig told me it was - and this was a little lie to get me on board. Otherwise, I would've probably skipped out at that point (I'm a very very careful guy).
As I know now, Craig knew not everything was 100% set - but I know he also was optimistic and positive, that everything would be finished until December 2008, as he promised.
So this wasn't really a lie - Craig was 100% sure himself it will work just fine... he basically thought he can confirm that to me upfront.
I think this is one of the biggest causes for drama: Craig is sure about something and announces it upfront - and when something doesn't work out, drama is born.
Another example is the 1GHz Pandora for the qemu-Team: Craig spoke to me about that and we agreed to send the team a unit.
The only one I had was one where nubs were not working, so I wanted to send them one from the next prototype batch.
Craig didn't know this and now mentioned here they got the unit already - which is not the case.
So again, while this sounded like a lie, it wasn't one - he was sure the unit was out there already.
From 2008 to 2011, I basically was the communicator: He told me what happened and I tried to tell the community.
And worked together with the devs to get the OS going (though I couldn't help much with that, just speak to them and test).
There were also sudden announcements and changes of plans (i.e. selling Premium upgrades for faster deliveries), which I didn't really know of and read them first here on the boards.
Craig probably didn't tell me about that, because he knew I wouldn't simply agree to such thing... I'm careful and always try to be on both the teams and the communities site.
When these upgrades occured, my customers also asked for them - so I couldn't simply refuse that... I was therefore forced into doing stuff like that.
However - if the premium upgrades wouldn't have happened, OpenPandora Ltd. wouldn't have survived and gone bust.
So while it was an annoying thing for many in the community, it saved the whole Pandora project.
It went okay until mid 2011, when CC was not able to provide anymore boards.
That's when Craig was going to give up - and finally gave me the okay to look for investors and move the production to Germany.
I did the best I could, and it seems to have worked out.
We're now financially stabilized, production is running good, I'm slowly catching with all the work (eMails, etc.), old preorders are being delivered as well, etc.
So I think I did a good job organizing this and am now more involved than before, where I basically only was telling you guys what happened and was hoping to get my share of units from Craig
As skeezix said: Craig is no bad guy.
He is a typical business guy and tries to sell things as good as possible, sometimes adding more to them than they really are (which is normal in marketing ways).
In the way he posts, he's pretty good pissing off other people - though having met him personally, I know it's often just his type of humour.
And yes, one thing I don't like is that he often only contacts you if he needs something from you - and once he doesn't need anything, that's it (one thing that notaz doesn't like, as it's not community-like).
Well, that's Craig... he's a person with flaws as everyone is, but so am I.
If would've just been me, I would've never started something like that.
It takes crazy guys like Craig to start such a project.
However, he should never do it alone - as he is not pretty good dealing with the community - and that's what the Pandora is and should always be: A device for the community.
There were a lot of times where I would've just quit myself - but I was deeply tied into the project thanks to the outstanding preorders I had...
So basically:
Craig:
Good ideas, crazy enough to start risky projects, not very good dealing with developers or the community.
Should only post once things are 100% sure, in order to avoid drama
EvilDragon:
Very careful, organizing anything very thoughtful, good in dealing with developers and the community.
Wouldn't take a risk, no business guy.
MWeston:
Awesome designer
Fatih:
Important for all the chinese stuff (LCDs, LCD Cables, etc.)
All the helping devs from the community:
Mandatory
I learned one thing from the project:
It wouldn't have worked if anyone of us was missing.
I wouldn't have taken the risk, Craig would've probably pissed off all the community.
However, for any project like the Pandora 2, things need to be more optimized.
And that's what I make clear here.
I will be involved in Pandora 2, if...
1. ... I organize and handle the PCB production here in Germany with GC
2. ... only posts and announcements will be made, when everyone in the team agrees.
3. ... no one can do important decisions alone. We are different persons with different views, we should work together to get the best ouf of it.
We now got a good company for the cases in UK. We got a good company for the PCBs in Germany.
We gained a lot of experience with the Pandora 1.
These points are all important and good for a possible Pandora 2.
The main guy behind the Pandora 1 was Craig, who worked with Michael, Fatih, Dave and me to produce this neat piece of hardware.
The main guy behind the Pandora 2 should be the team - no single person.
If this will not be the case, I won't be involved.
As usual, I will take care that the community plays a very important part here as well.
So... now you know my point of view
Craig is not evil, I am no saint. We are two different persons, and together with the rest of the team, we can move mountains.
But we all need to work together to give the community a way better experience than they had with the Pandora 1.
The spirit is there - let's do it
mcobit
Advanced Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 6,909
Hi ED,
For the pcemuguy stuff, you contacted me once about this, but I didn't hear back from you, as I said that I don't know if it is wise to send me a 1GHz Pandora, I thought you wouldn't want to do that anymore. I never knew something about the broken nubs. Sorry if the posts I did sounded like I wanted to say, that craig lies. That was not the intention. It was just, that the last talk with you was some time ago and I didn't know the status. So I thought if I didn't get the unit, maybe it got lost or something.
Also I met craig in irc in the evening and he told me, that he didn't know why you didn't send the unit. Thats ok and I still think that it might not be a good idea to send me that unit, as I can make pretty videos of starcraft running, but everyone can do that with qemu now, that it is on the repo. I'd like to see someone, who never had a Pandora get that unit, kind of in the spirit of the developer Pandora, which is floating around.
If you still think it would be good to send me the unit, thats fine, too. I wouldn't keep it forever, so maybe it can get on its rotation afterwards.
Really, the only thing I could do is making videos and testing stuff on it, that was slow on the older boards, like the goonies, rrootage, noiz2sa, warzone etc.
One other thing:
Are there any news on The GLBasic Package from the compo?
Cheers!
For the pcemuguy stuff, you contacted me once about this, but I didn't hear back from you, as I said that I don't know if it is wise to send me a 1GHz Pandora, I thought you wouldn't want to do that anymore. I never knew something about the broken nubs. Sorry if the posts I did sounded like I wanted to say, that craig lies. That was not the intention. It was just, that the last talk with you was some time ago and I didn't know the status. So I thought if I didn't get the unit, maybe it got lost or something.
Also I met craig in irc in the evening and he told me, that he didn't know why you didn't send the unit. Thats ok and I still think that it might not be a good idea to send me that unit, as I can make pretty videos of starcraft running, but everyone can do that with qemu now, that it is on the repo. I'd like to see someone, who never had a Pandora get that unit, kind of in the spirit of the developer Pandora, which is floating around.
If you still think it would be good to send me the unit, thats fine, too. I wouldn't keep it forever, so maybe it can get on its rotation afterwards.
Really, the only thing I could do is making videos and testing stuff on it, that was slow on the older boards, like the goonies, rrootage, noiz2sa, warzone etc.
One other thing:
Are there any news on The GLBasic Package from the compo?
Cheers!
Last edited by a moderator:
This is exactly what was needed to rebalance the collective mood in this community.
Christoph.Krn
Advanced Member
With more things like the posts from you and skeezix here, I have no doubt about that.
b_o_b
Advanced Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,493
Hopefully this is good enough for Notaz. I am not so sure about 2. and 3. though.. How can you be sure nobody breaks those rules. What is an important decision? There is still a lot of room for interpretation.
Haven't followed the Pandora 2 threads, will current investors be involved too?
Closer than most of us
No, this can easily be done with proper contracts. Maybe it would make sense to start a company together where ALL have the same shares and rights and our own companies are the shareholders.
We'll need to check that.
Current Investors are involved in anything that has to do with OpenPandora GmbH, so yes, of course, if me or my company is involved, they'll get their share.
Even if we create a new company together to develop and produce the next Pandora (or any other product), OpenPandora GmbH is my shop and will sell the new products, so any profit from that will go into their share.
And this was the second post I read after a year-long haitus... the first was notaz's success with Android on Pandora.
All I have to say is, whatever challenges pop up, I'm grateful to each of you (Craig/ED/skeezix/djw/Fatih/all) for creating such an amazing device. Prior to the Pandora, IMO, the greatest hand-held ever was the Tapwave Zodiac -- but now, Pandora clearly holds the crown. Unless I feel like some serious Fallout 3 or similar, the Pandora is everything I need.
All I have to say is, whatever challenges pop up, I'm grateful to each of you (Craig/ED/skeezix/djw/Fatih/all) for creating such an amazing device. Prior to the Pandora, IMO, the greatest hand-held ever was the Tapwave Zodiac -- but now, Pandora clearly holds the crown. Unless I feel like some serious Fallout 3 or similar, the Pandora is everything I need.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 11,411
^ Well Fallout 1 with Qemu could take the edge off if you feel like Fallout 3..
https://www.youtube.com/embed/7JE5fS87K_U?feature=oembed
https://www.youtube.com/embed/7JE5fS87K_U?feature=oembed
Green7
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2012
- Messages
- 234
So Craig isn't a dick?
Who knew?
I love Craig. He introduced me to a world I thought was lost. Via an ad on b3ta.com.
Thanks for all the fish.
The single best moment of all the drama was Chad. I still log into his website. It's always hillarious.
www.chadwsmith.com
Who knew?
I love Craig. He introduced me to a world I thought was lost. Via an ad on b3ta.com.
Thanks for all the fish.
The single best moment of all the drama was Chad. I still log into his website. It's always hillarious.
www.chadwsmith.com
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh so your a green 7 year old dolphin ?
see people we don't discriminate .Also you can use android on the Pandora so this debate is slightly useless .
DavidBowman
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2009
- Messages
- 697
It kind of hurts me deep down inside when I think about many things - that were beyond anyone's control in this project - could have gone better and the long-lasting negative effects those things have caused.
But then I also feel something more powerful than that for this great bit o' kit that is the Pandora: I'm beyond proud to see that it still hasn't failed, and and that is only because of the insane dedication everyone has had to it, including those who moderate your forums and who could do nothing more than simply trust a bunch of crazy guys with their preorder money for yet another two more months. .
While I haven't had the pleasure of speaking personally with many of you guys on "the team" (where do you draw the line on who's not part of this?), I remember and enjoyed all of my exchanges with the ones I did speak with. And I really do feel like this project has made my life richer.
I'm a lot like ED in that I can't code and that the best thing I can do to try to contribute is to interact with the community. And I did try for a while, but for various reasons (e.g. Life) I haven't been able to stay involved in quite some time.
But like John D, I wanted to break my silence to state how proud and appreciative I am of everyone for pushing through the bad times and keeping the project going. I fight with my family sometimes too, but I will always want them in my life despite any of their flaws. I sincerely hope that no one gives up now. Drama happens, but don't let it spoil the bigger picture. The Pandora 2 could be unimaginably better than the first if everyone learns from the missteps and avoids them next time.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
But then I also feel something more powerful than that for this great bit o' kit that is the Pandora: I'm beyond proud to see that it still hasn't failed, and and that is only because of the insane dedication everyone has had to it, including those who moderate your forums and who could do nothing more than simply trust a bunch of crazy guys with their preorder money for yet another two more months.
.While I haven't had the pleasure of speaking personally with many of you guys on "the team" (where do you draw the line on who's not part of this?), I remember and enjoyed all of my exchanges with the ones I did speak with. And I really do feel like this project has made my life richer.
I'm a lot like ED in that I can't code and that the best thing I can do to try to contribute is to interact with the community. And I did try for a while, but for various reasons (e.g. Life) I haven't been able to stay involved in quite some time.
But like John D, I wanted to break my silence to state how proud and appreciative I am of everyone for pushing through the bad times and keeping the project going. I fight with my family sometimes too, but I will always want them in my life despite any of their flaws. I sincerely hope that no one gives up now. Drama happens, but don't let it spoil the bigger picture. The Pandora 2 could be unimaginably better than the first if everyone learns from the missteps and avoids them next time.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Last edited by a moderator:
Right. I'm not crazy. I'm totally insane
