Pandora OS Vs Android

[notaz]

I think the main problem is that Notaz (but correct me if I am wrong) feels Craig is benefiting from his hard work but he doesn't give him the appreciation he deserves.

Not really. It's a long going thing, the jar was slowly filling almost from the start and now overflowed, spilling all over the place. Look at that post that he called trolling, the statements that were being challenged. Where some "information" was posted in order to manipulate public opinion about himself, things that I don't think ever happened. And if they did, I wonder why it wasn't announced, where are those devs with free pandoras? And things like that are going on for years. It's manipulative, dishonest, abusive.


People tend to refer to pandora people as a team, but there is not much indication of a team when you are dealing with Craig really. You are dealt with as an empty space until you are needed. Notice how Craig tries to separate himself now, as if I was not on the project and just some random troll? Use and then throw away. Not that I'm seeking for attention and appreciation, but maybe at least listen for an opinion before making major announcements? No, who needs opinions of code monkeys. All those Android announcements, you would think this has at least talked about with the software guys. No. Just announce it and let others deal with the mess later. Not this time.


I know some here just think "now then, you two just get along and bring me a Pandora2" but I can't really go on with such person behind the wheel. I really feel down after all of this and don't want this to continue. I'll try to keep supporting pandora1 though.

 

[Foxgod]

I think the main problem is that Notaz (but correct me if I am wrong) feels Craig is benefiting from his hard work but he doesn't give him the appreciation he deserves.

Not really. It's a long going thing, the jar was slowly filling almost from the start and now overflowed, spilling all over the place. Look at that post that he called trolling, the statements that were being challenged. Where some "information" was posted in order to manipulate public opinion about himself, things that I don't think ever happened. And if they did, I wonder why it wasn't announced, where are those devs with free pandoras? And things like that are going on for years. It's manipulative, dishonest, abusive.


People tend to refer to pandora people as a team, but there is not much indication of a team when you are dealing with Craig really. You are dealt with as an empty space until you are needed. Notice how Craig tries to separate himself now, as if I was not on the project and just some random troll? Use and then throw away. Not that I'm seeking for attention and appreciation, but maybe at least listen for an opinion before making major announcements? No, who needs opinions of code monkeys. All those Android announcements, you would think this has at least talked about with the software guys. No. Just announce it and let others deal with the mess later. Not this time.


I know some here just think "now then, you two just get along and bring me a Pandora2" but I can't really go on with such person behind the wheel. I really feel down after all of this and don't want this to continue. I'll try to keep supporting pandora1 though.

I understand your feelings, most of us dont like how things are atm, i do however thing Craig his behavior is a bit sharper then it would be if the project would have been a little less challenging, the current situation is a bit of a burder to him i think,


Thanks that you keep offering your support for the Pandora1, i hope that things will ease up for everybody who work on the Pandora, when current problems have been dealt with.

 

[Pickle]

Have I now? By sending out dozens of free Pandora consoles,

Only 'free' pandoras were prototypes. I had access to bare boards and then later a proto board with a proto case. My production pandora was paid for personally. I do remember Craig saying at the beginning to myself that a pandora would be provided free if work was done, but this was meant to mean prototypes apparently. But im not hung over it.


In the end really I think the trade off was more beneficial to OP. For instance during the delays that kept production ready pandoras from bring produced. For my part I created a few videos and information on games that would run and be ready for users when they did receive their device. I believe this feedback really did keep everyone interested and hanging on.

making donations to them,

Not me, only money I was aware of was wasted on someone who basically stole it by not providing work as agreed.

getting drivers, information and databooks from TI

Any tech info I needed I would go to MWeston, but whatever.


Notaz's last post sums up the way things worked. I was approached by Craig when I had quake running on the wiz, but after that there was no communication. I pretty much dealt with MWeston from then on. Lately Ive been getting the feeling software is just expected.

 

[MooTheKow]

Notaz's last post sums up the way things worked. I was approached by Craig when I had quake running on the wiz, but after that there was no communication. I pretty much dealt with MWeston from then on. Lately Ive been getting the feeling software is just expected.

WHAT IS YOUR ORDER NUMBER!

 

[craigix]

No communication between you and I? There are pages of PMs and pages of MSN/IRC. It's just strange that you would claim otherwise. You say you also dealt with Mweston, well great, Mike is part of the team too, or did you for some reason not find his help good enough? I'd have thought he was the best person to be speaking to and it's probably why he was speaking to you.


I try to answer and speak to everyone as much as I can, but when you are dealing with something like this, on a skeleton staff it's pretty much impossible to please all of the people all of the time.


I try to avoid forum arguments as they lead nowhere, often it's impossible to change peoples minds so you may as well leave it alone.


Also often I've simply got too much to do (for example, VAT return is due and it's a lot of work) to spend time arguing on forums.

 

[Pickle]

No communication between you and I? There are pages of PMs and pages of MSN/IRC. It's just strange that you would claim otherwise. You say you also dealt with Mweston, well great, Mike is part of the team too, or did you for some reason not find his help good enough? I'd have thought he was the best person to be speaking to and it's probably why he was speaking to you.

Your right I should not say none, but there were definitely periods of silence. I know there have been times when ive tried to contact to you and there was wouldnt be a response. It could get pretty frustrating, but ok I learned to deal with it, and went on.


Your too busy, so it is what it is.


Your taking things im saying as things im complaining about. Not really, just trying to state my view on how things went. Of course i dont it was perfect, but im still here and still bringing software to the pandora.


So Craig really I am just questioning the perception you provided in that post on how you supported software development.


Are free pandoras the protoypes? Who got the donations? Any tech info I think is just expected. Give some specifics.


The average user would take that post that each of us got a production pandora for free and received some financial kick backs, which of us that are still here doesnt appear to be the case. That doesnt mean I am expecting any of that.

 

[Foxgod]

No communication between you and I? There are pages of PMs and pages of MSN/IRC. It's just strange that you would claim otherwise. You say you also dealt with Mweston, well great, Mike is part of the team too, or did you for some reason not find his help good enough? I'd have thought he was the best person to be speaking to and it's probably why he was speaking to you.

Your right I should not say none, but there were definitely periods of silence. I know there have been times when ive tried to contact to you and there was wouldnt be a response. It could get pretty frustrating, but ok I learned to deal with it, and went on.


Your too busy, so it is what it is.


Your taking things im saying as things im complaining about. Not really, just trying to state my view on how things went. Of course i dont it was perfect, but im still here and still bringing software to the pandora.


So Craig really I am just questioning the perception you provided in that post on how you supported software development.


Are free pandoras the protoypes? Who got the donations? Any tech info I think is just expected. Give some specifics.


The average user would take that post that each of us got a production pandora for free and received some financial kick backs, which of us that are still here doesnt appear to be the case. That doesnt mean I am expecting any of that.

Cant you guys speak in person sometimes, or trough video feed?


Discussions on forums lack emotional load, and therefore a lot of communication can be mistaken as complains or offenses.


Maybe a personal conversation, or at least one with webcam, will allow you guys to work things out without mistaking each others comments.

 

[craigix]

Here is why I feel I'm being trolled to some extent, because I've answered these questions over and over again, this is from Notaz in 2011:


http://boards.openpa...2-contributors/


PS two most recent Pandora contributions I can think of, 1Ghz unit to the PC emu guy and 1Ghz unit to Gadgetoid to become our website maintainer (he did things before we offered him this, it isn't a 'payment'). There are a couple more up for discussion at the moment too.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Supporter of good behavior return.

 

[DaMummy]

why are all the mods leaving?


do i smell bad?


ED will be in for a nice surprise when he comes back

 

[sebt3]

But what good comes from constant flaming?
People want to see this thing to keep going.


If everybody attacks each other it will be over in no time...

It was no flaming, it was a way to seek the truth.


There is thing craigx say and things that are real. Sometimes thse 2 doesnt match too well....


And dont worry that's just one of the subjects, I could resurect many more...


EDIT: nvermind I'm way too late here

 

[Grench]

I would volunteer to be a mod. Care to try a different style of moderation?


...


The topic here would get edited too.


...


my proposed "reign of terror".

Sounds good to me.


We're short two mods - and have a volunteer to enforce the rules of polite discussion.


I nominate sswam as moderator.


Does anyone second the nomination?

 

[mcobit]

Who is that pcemuguy you are talking about craig? IngoReis? Shouldn't he be posting already how well the stuff runs on the 1GHz machine?


Edit: Or do you mean lunixbochs? He played around with qemu, too.


Or if you mean me, there was no Pandora at my doorstep recently.

 

[FRZ]

IMO, android is to Linux as Apple is to Unix.


Send from my ZTE Warp

 

[Exophase]

... why was this thread split given this title exactly?

 

[mcobit]

Who is that pcemuguy you are talking about craig? IngoReis? Shouldn't he be posting already how well the stuff runs on the 1GHz machine?


Edit: Or do you mean lunixbochs? He played around with qemu, too.


Or if you mean me, there was no Pandora at my doorstep recently.

IngoReis didn't get it, too. So who did you send it?

 

[fusion_power]

Uhm...

Poll:

[ ] YES

[ ] NO

[ ] MAYBE

[x] THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHAT?

-_-

 

[Mr_Loon]

Hmmm, a lot of interesting stuff in this thread.


From my perspective a lot of the problems raised in this thread seem to stem from the fact that the core team do not communicate enough, or possibly effectively enough.


I guess this is because the core team Craig, ED, MWeston, OS Devs etc are of course in essence a collection of individuals + individual companies, rather than a single company / organisation.


@ Notaz & OS Devs : What would you like to see from Craig / ED / the userbase? I know you guys don't do it for money, or fame / ego, but why have you spent so long making the Pandora the amazing thing it is today? What can we / Craig / ED do for you? I've always thought we should have a proper dev fund, to at the very least, throw you guys a bit of beer money in an organised / well promoted fashion.


@ Craig : Without your efforts / skills / dedication / funding we would have no Pandora. I've met you, I like you, but, here's the but, you are a lousy communicator with the written word* (on this forum anyway) & are also more than a little prone to ill considered comments. For instance accusing Notaz of trolling, man up & apologize for that one, would be my advice. I think you're in real danger of screwing up Pandora 2 in terms of support from the Pandora devs + fair number of the community and that saddens me greatly.


@ Everyone : Please remember that being a bad communicator / prone to offhand remarks does not make you a bad person. Also remember that the Pandora has so far been a financial disaster for Craig. He's not sitting on huge piles of cash generated from the fruits of devs labours, in terms of support for the devs, things would've been very different if everything had gone according to plan.


@ ED : Welcome back, hope you enjoyed Bulgaria, we've had a lovely time whilst you were away. :rolleyes:


Anyhow, enough P2 spam, lets all pull together and make Pandora 1Ghz the great success it deserves to be.


Back on topic, Pandora OS, every time.


* Edit for fairness : wish I'd said : you are quite often a lousy communicator

 

[skeezix]

Oh, we all talk in IRC with ED.


Craig doesn't have time to hang out in the IRC dev channel (or at least, historically, back when all the decisions were being made.) A big problem was the total rush things were in back years ago .. ie: Many of us got dev units after the initial shipping target date (true story), ie: notaz and djw got them early on I think, and a few went to people who didn't turn out anything at all (zodttd), and then a few people like me, cpasjuste and vimacs got pulled in a bit later. (Really, software guys should've been very early on, not shoehorned i at the end, but obviously everyone was new to device building and mistakes were made, so no biggy) So consider.. we got dev units, we figured we were shipping 'weeks away' (then months, then etc, but we always thought shipping was right around the corner) -- anyway, a lot of early choices got made FAST. We worked out options, we tried them out and pro/conned them quick, and went with it, out of necessity. Craig wasn't part of most of that (nomatter what he thinks , for instance. His version of history is very different than ours, since we were of different worlds.. he was starving himself and fund raising and whatever else he was up to, and we were grunting away putting sofytware together, and mjw was hacking the hardware; and then people like notaz and djw who are utterly fucking geniuses glued it all together. Don't forget djw -- he worked around the clock to get the image building and notaz was mostly kernel and we took the userland and SDK and APIs and such; but it was mostly djw and notaz as the core.


Theres been a lot of that.. but we talk to ED, and he talks with Craig and fatih and the manufacturers etc, so it sort of works.


The one funny thing is.. Craig pisses people off; he's quirky and funny, but he goes about things in odd ways, and uses the 'royal we' at odd times, or makes assumptions and jumps in a direction withotu consulting the peopel that he depends on; sometimes he ignores people since he doesn't need them right then (and he's busy), and then when he does need them, you're his best friend.. for a few weeks.


I dont' think he's malicious or evil or any of that stuff peopel attribute to him, but his way of going about things pisses _everyone in the world_ off -- witness forum drama.


Craig my man -- dont' argue it, you just dont' see how your quirks are; I get it, its hard to see it, but its true. (I know, post deleted and me getting a nasty PM or banned, I know


I do think he's a good guy; I like his accent, and he _does_ have some great creative ideas; he has a good customer perspective. But he steps on toes and thrashes around, and sometimes you need that to get off the ground. But it makes people mad.


Theres a lot more to it, and its not all going to come out _here_; people get mad, and they get over it; we all know his quirks, he knows ours, we work it out, and we move on. But the question is next .. maybe some folks will not work on the next unit because they're not invited to by Craig or Ed or whatever, or maybe they'll refuse when asked due to past experiences. (And honestly, I think Craig was depressed for awhile (hey, hard not to be ) and ED pulled it all through and got things sorted out, and now he's back in the boat. But Craig doesn't run the show, and ED doesn't run the show. They're separate shows, and they work together, and we all hang out to help out.


We devs didn't get any $$ for it (I'm pretty sure Craig and ED and fatih didnt' get any $$ out of it either, yet notaz, djw, me, vimacs, etc etc .. we didn't make a penny, and have put thousands of hours in. But thats okay, thats what we signed up for. Send us beer


Someday down the road, when things are successful and ED and Craig are rolling around in barrels of money, we hope to get chipped a bit; and for sure we get some perks (we paid for our units, but we can sometimes get in on early stuff so we can help build with it. ED sent me a iVP to help me get through the long nights with the screaming babies, for instance. And ED is awesome, btw.)


If I get booted, I'll see you at gp32x .. thats my home


jeff


You know your parents, you've had fights with them; in a band, peopel fight. Mates at the pub, they brawl. Adults get over it. Sometimes peopel carry a grudge. Its human nature, its not the end of the world. The world turns.

 

[b_o_b]

^ Great post.