Pleng
Well-Known Member
WizardStan said:Am I explaining my point well enough yet, or shall I rephrase it again?
No Stan, I think you missed my point well enough the first time...
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WizardStan said:Am I explaining my point well enough yet, or shall I rephrase it again?
Pleng said:WizardStan said:Am I explaining my point well enough yet, or shall I rephrase it again?
No Stan, I think you missed my point well enough the first time...
No, I got it. You were commenting how I turned a guess into a statement of fact, were you not? I didn't actually, it was just an example, but the fact that that's the thing you picked up on suggests that I hadn't (and possibly still haven't) explained my case properly yet. If you don't agree, that's your opinion, but if you don't even understand then I'm clearly doing something wrong and I'd appreciate cooperation in figuring out where.
Pleng said:WizardStan said:If you don't expect it to cause a delay, make one up. What happens if there is a delay now and it has to be pushed a couple of weeks?MWeston said:At the moment, I don't see this delaying the November launch as I have known about the new silicon for a little while now. I just wonder what version the new Archos players are using since they are being manufactured right now!
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I would hate even more to be told there won't be a delay, and then have it delayed anyway.
This is unfortunately why developers should just keep quiet and not say anything. Because 'I don't expect a delay' somehow gets transformed very quickly (in less than the time it takes to even finish writing a post) inot 'There won't be a delay'.
Wrong. If this is an open project then they should be open about what is happening. They should refrain from making work estimates though, because clearly they are terrible at that.
You may think he's boring, but no matter how you twist it, it's "thanks" to Chad that today I've learned of another potential problem the Pandora developers have averted.gibberish said:chad you are so boring man, please find a hobby or something that doesnt involve moaning on forums all day long.
i too am annoyed by the amount of delays, ive even decided that i wont be pre-ordering anymore because i dont think it will ship on the date promised to us. but the difference is, i keep it to myself. what makes you feel like you need to moan like a kid on here all the time, getting on the nerves of everybody who is working so hard to get this device released WITHOUT FLAWS. most of these problems are out of the hands of developers, maybe you should find some contact details for TI and have a good old moan at them instead?!
What you say is completely wrong (except for simple SoC replacement ). As I hinted, this bug has an easy workaround and NEON software runs fine, though slightly slower than it should. If you don't trust that, look at BeagleBoard videos running HD; that uses NEON assembly.Megamixman said:Also, this is unlikely to cause a delay because it is an issue dealing with the silicon and silicon only. In effect, current OMAP3 silicon doesn't run NEON instructions correctly. Which means replacing the SoC should do the trick. No redesign of the board, etc. This means that current development can continue for the most part, but current tests on anything to do with NEON instructions are inaccurate. When TI released the new revision, the old SoC can be replaced, a few tests to make sure NEON instructions are working and everything continues on.
jbr said:Another issue is that I'm just not sure what's taking so long. I feel like the whole thing is sorta done already, and the design is just sitting there, waiting for production.
Come on guys. You can't be that dumb. You ever tried to do something like this before? I mean seriously have you EVER tried to do something like this? Even if you work at a large company that handles this (motorola,nokia,fic, etc.) You're still in a VASTLY different setting because those contracts aren't just that one device you're looking at millions of dollars. For the Pandora? They're not looking at nearly that much, so the Pandora is gonna be the first project slighted. If you have to Press out 3,000 pandora cases by the end of the month and samsung comes to you with a new phone they need 20,000 of in 3 months you're going to drop the pandora and get on that samsung contract. Now look at how many different manufactures are responsible for each component and realize that the Pandora is gonan be near the bottom of EACH of their lists.tmcnair said:They should refrain from making work estimates though, because clearly they are terrible at that.
craigix said:If only we did have the money to throw at problems to make them go away without weeks of hard work .... but we don't.
Other companies might spend 3-4 million developing devices and they still make mistakes.
We have to replace money with hard grafting , ie learning to do everything ourselves because we can't afford to pay huge companies tens of thousands (sometimes hundreds of thousands) of dollars to fix things for us.
Yes it would have been nice to have had that LCD cable the right size for the German show, ah but that would have been a one off loss of over $1000 and it would still not have been right, so it would have had to have been done again later.
Yes it would have been nice to have SLA'ed a case for the show too, rather than FDM, but at $2500 minimum per SLA would it not be better to wait until the case is 100% (ie the LCD ribbon and the case live in harmony).
That is an example of saving money so that you can buy the Pandora way under the cost of devices using the same SOC (look at the archos).
You either get a $330 next gen hand held soon or you get a $500 nex gen hand held last month (with a bug in the silicon).
How did this mistake happens in the first place. I know TI make the board but, wasn't it designed by the pandora team for everything that goes into it and TI just put it together with their cpu?
anexanhume said:I know this is off topic, but I'd love to see a BOM for this thing. I'm most interested in seeing the prices for the SoC and the LCD.
As regarding to criticism being shown, it's all really irrelevant. This level of "access" to the design developments is unprecedented, and this type of approach to building the device is novel, especially with regards to resources, as Craig puts it. While the creators may make what turn out to be false claims, they are just as much victims of circumstance, and are new to the challenges that such a project entails. Therefore, any criticism levied is really without base as there is no comparative previous scenario. Frustration is understandable, but as many video game developers remark "It will be done when it's done."
I've read this post before in another thread.
I doubt TI will want Craigix disclosing the price they are paying for the SoC, and it most likely varies with quantity anyway.anexanhume said:I know this is off topic, but I'd love to see a BOM for this thing. I'm most interested in seeing the prices for the SoC and the LCD.
anexanhume said:I know this is off topic, but I'd love to see a BOM for this thing. I'm most interested in seeing the prices for the SoC and the LCD.
For SoC prices:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch...me=296-23175-ND
These prices probably are not what Pandora as a company pays, but that'll give you some idea.