Pandora is WAY overpriced????

[Timstertoo]

@Kumaki I'm not attacking the Pandora, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a potential new customer and follow his track of thought. How do these people who haven't heard of the Pandora and see a mention of it somewhere with some specs get the gist of what you are saying? What actions are taken to inform these people and market the product? If these actions are taken, why isn't ED selling 20 a day for such an undeniable fantastic product? We need new customers, not discussions about if the Pandora is great or not. Most people on this board are here for that reason. Preaching to the chior.

I know Tim, but threads like this do not help get Pandy a good name. Threads like the one I posted, and very few have noticed, about the usefulness of Pandy in everyday/business life...threads like me pointing out that Pandy can pay for itself by replacing smartphone, Zune/iPod, etc...THAT would help.

I'd love to be able to help out by writing about how my Pandora helps me out not only for fun and relaxation but also as a fantastic business productivity tool.

 

[Kumaki]

Well, I started a thread right here in General Talk, Tim, where you can do EXACTLY that!

Here's the shamless plug:

Spoiler

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11839-pandora-functionality-in-everydaybusiness-life/

Talk about the apps and programs you use that help you out in everyday and business life. Talking good stuff about the Pandy helps others to think maybe they would like one.

Yeah, when you look at just the price tag...it's high.

BUT...when you look at it in the context of all it can do for you, and what it can replace...you begin to realize Pandy pays for itself.

Let's face it...you can run Android on Pandy, so what the hell do you REALLY need with a Smartphone, when you have Pandy?

The savings on that alone are between 50-100 a month.

When you further realize you can play music on these things...and pipe it thru car speakers or any other speakers for that matter...now you save the cost of your iPod or Zune, and that's a good 200 bucks right there.

Consider that it will play all the games you want from any other platform (except DS) and there's another 100-200 saved.

So, what does this amount to?

Pandy 1Ghz, costs $700 U.S.

Take the 200 from the music player...now it costs $500.

Take the alternate gaming platform, PSPVita, or whatever, that's at least 100, probably more like 200...but since I'm being conservative, let's say 100...now it costs $400.

Save $50 a month on your cell phone bill, going from a Smartphone which you no longer REALLY need - what can a Smartphone do that Pandy can't, other than make actual phone calls? Now, at $50 a month, Pandy pays for itself in 8 months.

Not so expensive, anymore, is it?

 

[Fueler]

The $50 a month on the cell phone bill is for the data plan that you still need to have so pandy can have internet on the go. Pandora doesn't come with 3g or 4g for internet on the go.

Plain and simple the Pandora has the best damn set of controls (minus the nubs) on a handheld device and the audio quality for the headphones is absolutely amazing! You can get cheap devices but you'll end up getting annoyed at them not working that well.

 

[Kumaki]

Nuts to that. Plenty of public wifi hotspots.

Screw Verizon.

'

They lost me as soon as my contract is up this July.

After what they pulled on my mom, I'll be darned if they get me for a day beyond my contract.

 

[TrashyMG]

The $50 a month on the cell phone bill is for the data plan that you still need to have so pandy can have internet on the go. Pandora doesn't come with 3g or 4g for internet on the go.

Plain and simple the Pandora has the best damn set of controls (minus the nubs) on a handheld device and the audio quality for the headphones is absolutely amazing! You can get cheap devices but you'll end up getting annoyed at them not working that well.

Do you really think it really cost so much more to provide data vs the regular digital phone service?? what the data package really pays for is the price of the smart phone. plus a ton of profit once it's payed off.. 

 

[erico]

My trs80 color costed an absurd price, my amiga 4000 I almost shame on stating how much I payed.

Atary lynx costed high, my panasonic rx dt707 costed 4x the avarage system, 6x if you compare to a magnavox thing (and still works perfectly), etc.

A pandora is not overpriced, simple mass produced hardware is cheap and it is not a surprise.

I see no point in such discussion.

Save your money and take your choices.

 

[klapse]

Considering costs and the fact that it is unique with no direct competitors, the price is about right - maybe slightly too low or too high to maximise profits.

 

[pmprog]

So, what does this amount to?

To me, personally, your sums are vastly out. Firstly, I can't go without the actual "phone" functionality of the phone, but then it only cost me £100, and my monthly bill ranges between £5 and £10.
My MP3 player costs £30 - though you could use the smartphone for that too. Plus my Sansa Clip+ is a fraction of the size of the Pandora, much easier to carry around.

Commercial games you still need to buy even if you're emulating them.

It hasn't even really got me to ditch my netbook, most of the time I'll take one or the other, sometimes both.

I like the device, and think it's great and *worth* the money, but my Pandora will never "pay for itself" (unless I sell software for it, I guess).

 

[_wb_]

Dumbphone + Pandora >> Smartphone.

Physical controls. Battery life. Reliability (not going to be unreachable because I discharged my phone playing games on it). Convenience of full SD, full USB, full and physical keyboard, etc. Software I can do whatever I want with, including coding on the device itself - no passive app consuming. I can take a call while checking my mails or whatever on the Pandora.

Dumbphone + Pandora > Smartphone + iCP2.

All of the above still hold, except physical controls.

Cost of dumbphone + Pandora: I paid 440 EUR for a Rebirth unit, and iirc about 30 EUR for my dumbphone. I pay ~7 EUR per month on average for calling and texting.

Cost of Smartphone: probably about the same, more if you have obligatory expensive monthly subscription fees and/or have to pay for software that would be free on the Pandora.

Cost of Smartphone + iCP2: certainly more.

(I did order an iCP2 by the way, but I'm planning to use it as a wireless keyboard+mouse to control my laptop when it's connected to my projector)

 

[Timstertoo]

Well, I started a thread right here in General Talk, Tim, where you can do EXACTLY that!


Here's the shamless plug:

Spoiler

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11839-pandora-functionality-in-everydaybusiness-life/

Spoiler

Talk about the apps and programs you use that help you out in everyday and business life. Talking good stuff about the Pandy helps others to think maybe they would like one.


Yeah, when you look at just the price tag...it's high.


BUT...when you look at it in the context of all it can do for you, and what it can replace...you begin to realize Pandy pays for itself.


Let's face it...you can run Android on Pandy, so what the hell do you REALLY need with a Smartphone, when you have Pandy?


The savings on that alone are between 50-100 a month.


When you further realize you can play music on these things...and pipe it thru car speakers or any other speakers for that matter...now you save the cost of your iPod or Zune, and that's a good 200 bucks right there.


Consider that it will play all the games you want from any other platform (except DS) and there's another 100-200 saved.


So, what does this amount to?


Pandy 1Ghz, costs $700 U.S.


Take the 200 from the music player...now it costs $500.


Take the alternate gaming platform, PSPVita, or whatever, that's at least 100, probably more like 200...but since I'm being conservative, let's say 100...now it costs $400.


Save $50 a month on your cell phone bill, going from a Smartphone which you no longer REALLY need - what can a Smartphone do that Pandy can't, other than make actual phone calls? Now, at $50 a month, Pandy pays for itself in 8 months.


Not so expensive, anymore, is it?

Well, problem is I don't have one yet..

I appreciate your effort but your numbers are very personal in the sense that they don't apply to me at all. For instance I have a smartphone with a data plan but only pay 13,50 a month and I can deduct that amount from my income taxes. So depending on how good my business year is it works out as even less. I need a phone, can't see having a non-smart phone work out a lot cheaper.


Regarding this discussion, I'm not trying to make the Pandora more or less through the label of the price. I am trying the exact opposite. Disconnect emotion from price and find a price that maximises sales/profits (depending on what you seem most important right now based on what you think will help you most in the future) I believe that once I get it I'll love it and worth every penny.


Your thread, albeit a good effort and no reason to not post it, is not going to get in any new customers. It might pull some people over the threshold who are already here and needed that extra push. I think that well before someone makes the emotional investment to go plough through a forum of a product he's thinking about buying he'll quickly check the price and the specs. And then he'll feel there's a disconnect between the two. Not a lot of people are going to think "Hey maybe it's made by adult Germans instead of Chinese kids, lets delve deeper into that first."


So efforts to get in fresh blood need to be made away from this forum and a good marketing push is important to get that fresh blood. One of the tools in marketing is pricing. Finding an optimal price point is not just about what is it worth, it's about at what price will we get the most people to buy it. And then how far can we raise it from that point to maximise profits. That knowledge in combination with informing people not only of the existence of the Pandora but also about the uniqueness will hopefully drive up the sales a lot. But it will take a crapload of time seeing as there is little to no budget so someone close to ED with 20 hours spare a week at least needs to step up.

 

[ZXDunny]

Around the 'net, on all the tech sites, the Pandora now has a reputation for being the device that people are still waiting for after 4 years. I see this everywhere the Pandora gets mentioned - along with opinions about how those in charge of the project are scamming the people who have bought it. That's quite apart from all the "smartphones are more powerful" comments.

We'll never get rid of these opinions, they're set to stay and there's nothing we can do to stop it now.

D.

 

[elwing]

it's not unlike they aren't deserved through... well, not the scam comment...

 

[Kumaki]

So, what does this amount to?

To me, personally, your sums are vastly out. Firstly, I can't go without the actual "phone" functionality of the phone, but then it only cost me £100, and my monthly bill ranges between £5 and £10.
My MP3 player costs £30 - though you could use the smartphone for that too. Plus my Sansa Clip+ is a fraction of the size of the Pandora, much easier to carry around.

Commercial games you still need to buy even if you're emulating them.

It hasn't even really got me to ditch my netbook, most of the time I'll take one or the other, sometimes both.

I like the device, and think it's great and *worth* the money, but my Pandora will never "pay for itself" (unless I sell software for it, I guess).

That is why you get a dumbphone. No one said you should do without the phone. Just that you don't need a goddam smartphone at outrageously expensive price, for what you get. The worst decision I ever made in my life was to get a smartphone, and as soon as my contract is done, that's it.

And sansa products SUCK ASS. I had a Fuze + before I got the Zune. and I got the Zune because the controls on the Fuze + sucked so hard, I could barely make them work, and 3/4 of the time, they did something other than what I was wanting, when they responded at all, which was less than 1/2 the time.

I'm also assuming you have the commerical games that you're emulating, most of us have and own multiple systems...I'd certainly never advocate piracy...I'm a little surprised you would not have considered most folks already HAVE the games in question.

As for Pandy paying for itself...it is a matter of the choices you make.

In my case, Had I had the Pandy before I'd bought the Zune...That would have been about $250 US - out of the $500 I paid for my rebirth...leaving $350 to go - meaning that just dropping my data plan - I have the unlimited at $30 a month, grandfathered by Verizon...but, when I go to Consumer Cellular versus Verizon...my bill should drop from about $86 a month...to not more than $35...there's 50 bucks. Meaning my Pandy then, considering the Zune...would pay for itself in five months. A 1Ghz would have paid for itself in nine months.

Choices. Do you HAVE to have the "latest and greatest" of everything, just because everyone else has it...and it looks cool, but it really snot? Or would you rather have something built well, with no restrictions, and something a lot of people donb't have, and therefore may be jealous of?

Dumbphone + Pandora >> Smartphone.

Physical controls. Battery life. Reliability (not going to be unreachable because I discharged my phone playing games on it). Convenience of full SD, full USB, full and physical keyboard, etc. Software I can do whatever I want with, including coding on the device itself - no passive app consuming. I can take a call while checking my mails or whatever on the Pandora.

And this was my point.

And it's all about choices.

 

[ckblackm]

Check out Republic Wireless if you're in the US.  You pay $250ish for the phone (a Motorola DEFY XT).. and it's $20/month for unlimited everything.  No contract.

It's not for everyone... but it works great for me.

Christopher.

 

[Kumaki]

I appreciate your effort but your numbers are very personal in the sense that they don't apply to me at all. For instance I have a smartphone with a data plan but only pay 13,50 a month and I can deduct that amount from my income taxes. So depending on how good my business year is it works out as even less. I need a phone, can't see having a non-smart phone work out a lot cheaper.

And what the hell did you do in the days before a Smartphone?

And, as for me, in the United States - where we pay more for EVERYTHING so that the rest of the world can have stuff cheap...

Verizon charges me $86 a month.

For that I have the minimum talk plan, 250 text messages a month, and $30 a month for the unlimited data - I'm grandfathered on this, they don't offer it any more. Arguably, I could make a legitimate case for my cell phone being paid for by my company, and thus also take it off my taxes. But, as I am self-employed, basically, the company's money is already mine, anyway.

You must be in Europe getting smartphone service as cheap as you quote, becvause I know Europe gets EVERYTHING cheaper than Americans do...just check your doctor or pharmacy bill if you don't believe me.

 

[ZXDunny]

Hehe. I have a Sansa Fuze and it's bloody fantastic. Had it for years now, it still holds a charge and still sounds so much better than the missus' ipod. Of course, the Pandora sounds better, but the Pandora is way bulkier to fit in my pocket when out walking the dog!

I have heard that the Fuze+ isn't as good, but I'd be lost without my Fuze.

So for on the go I have a smartphone for internet access (about 13 quid/month, unlimited data), my Fuze for music, Kindle for ebooks and the Pandora for games and coding. I'd not dream of using the Pandora for any of those other options - it sucks at internet, it's too big for music, the screen is awful for reading. It excels at gaming and coding though.

D.

 

[Kumaki]

Check out Republic Wireless if you're in the US.  You pay $250ish for the phone (a Motorola DEFY XT).. and it's $20/month for unlimited everything.  No contract.

It's not for everyone... but it works great for me.

Christopher.

I might just do that. But it has to work in the little backwoods shitsplat place I live in. and a lot of cell companies don't offer good coverage here...I'm smack in the middle of a Sprint Dead Zone for example. I used Verizon here because it was, when I moved here, the only reliable service I could find. Since then, my mom switched to consumer Cellular and gets good service in our little shitsplat town in the middle of nowhere, so That is where I'll go for the moment...they also have no contracts.

Once we move to North Carolina, I'll probably try that Republic Wireless, it sounds like a good deal...and in a big town like Raleigh/Durham, I should not have problems. However, in Shitsplat, Penssylvania...I have all kind of connection problems.

 

[Kumaki]

Hehe. I have a Sansa Fuze and it's bloody fantastic. Had it for years now, it still holds a charge and still sounds so much better than the missus' ipod. Of course, the Pandora sounds better, but the Pandora is way bulkier to fit in my pocket when out walking the dog!

I have heard that the Fuze+ isn't as good, but I'd be lost without my Fuze.

So for on the go I have a smartphone for internet access (about 13 quid/month, unlimited data), my Fuze for music, Kindle for ebooks and the Pandora for games and coding. I'd not dream of using the Pandora for any of those other options - it sucks at internet, it's too big for music, the screen is awful for reading. It excels at gaming and coding though.

D.

Well, since I do not RUDELY walk around all day with earbuds in so that no one can talk to me....Pandy works fine for my music, since I only play it in the car. and that rudeness comment was not directed at you, specifically, but rather at ALL THE PEOPLE out there who seem to have earbud wires growing out of their ears....it is a major pet peeve of mine, because you can't ever get their goddamn attention.

 

[iprice]

I know Europe gets EVERYTHING cheaper than Americans do.

That's not true at all.

White goods, electronics, entertainment media (DVDs, CDs etc.), books, houses, petrol, taxes and food all appear to be cheaper in the US than the UK (so our local newspapers keep telling us). Plus we pay for our healthcare at source - whether we use it or not (oh, and we can have to wait 2+ weeks to see our GP, unless our head is hanging off) and upto 2 years for operations. Prescription charges are almost £8.00 for each item. It's almost impossible to find an NHS dentist and even then they charge a fortune for even the most basic work. Our road tax, yes - we pay that on top of fuel duty, goes to pay for everything but our roads, which are crumbling beneath our wheels.

And all of the above on wages that job for job are lower in this country.

Americans - pah, you don't know when you're well off!

 

[Kumaki]

Well, I know sure as hell we are gouged for medical care here.

Everyone in the world gets cheaper healthcare than Americans do.

Not that I necessarily mind, since my income is tied to my doctor's income...