Pandora is WAY overpriced????

[ckblackm]

Firefox 18 is slow as a dog on my 1ghz pandora.  :-(

That's disappointing. FF17 is so snappy even on my old CC Pandora that it's making me rethink my desktop Chromium-always policy.

It's possible that it's my using the internal wireless that makes it slow... I've ordered the dongle from Link to see if that improves the speed at all.

 

[Binky]

I've found FF18 to be massively faster than older versions on my pandora - I think SD card read-write may have been a pinch-point (it used to hold the card activity light on constantly while eating very little CPU time) - I no longer have this problem

 

[kirkanoss]

well it's all in the eye of the beholder to me even before i quit my job and moved to the woods $500+ was alot of coin but to me well worth it even tho i can't code or really get down and dirty with it as alot of people can. i do get out of it almost everyday from playing my fav flac albums,all my mp3 players never played flac yes they were under 100 tho. also if i wanted to play any of the games me and my brothers have saved from our consoles that we have riped to roms can now play them on tho go for hours. love playing tony hawk for ps1 with vlc playing my own music or even ff7 with a good audio book. also the main key thing i love is the duel full size card slots how many tablets even have any card slot. also there is this great community built around it from direct contact with the creators and devs too the the little guy just helping someone get used to there pandora.

alot more could be said but it's beautiful day out so i need to grab my pandora and get some yard work done. so for me i think i have used my pandora more then enoff to shell out 500+ for it, now will leah, billy joe or tom think 500+ is too dam much some might some might get 3 never know.

ps  we all can't forget it's not like they are making tons of cash off of these they are just staying a float and bring us a item we want, not like if you went and got a pair of nice shoes for 150 bucks that cost maybe 10 to make + the little kid making it

 

[klapse]

I find these types of arguments really very silly. It comes down to people saying, "It is too expensive because it costs more than I want to (or can) pay."


The latest Mercedes G wagons cost far more than I can pay - but I can still understand why they are priced as they are.


Just because you, or I, personally can not afford to purchase something at the price point that the manufacturer chooses or has to charge for an item does not make it, "a massive rip off."


Those of us who signed up for a pre-order in 2008 knew we were taking a huge risk with the $350-$400 we sent in, via wire transfers, based on faith and speculation that this thing called a Pandora -might- some day exist. We were essentially discounted based on the fact that we were taking a risk to pre-order something that we thought at the time was months away - then held on for 2+ years, with many of them still outstanding, for fulfillment.


Would I have paid today's price 3.5 years ago for this product delivered the following week instead of going into a highly risky delivery unknown expenditure? Sure. Would I have paid today's price for the uncertain and risky prospect of non-refundable wire transfers to a company that barely existed? No.


Today's price reflects immediate availability of a mature product that you can buy with a credit card and an address.


2008's price reflected a high risk pre-kickstarter project requiring a non-refundable money order, a dream, and lots of faith.


They had no way at the time to know what kinds of cost overruns they would encounter - or they would have charged more back then.

excellent. bullseye. on every point.

 

[PowerGod]

But it sucks as a music player as it's too bulky and not an easy way to change tracks in under 10 seconds.

You never tried Rockbox I suppose... 


EDIT: seems like I can't write after the quote... Fixed - Binky

 

[Binky]

(Rockbox maps the shoulder buttons (and the dpad left/right) to next/previous track (or FF/RW if held for a second or two))

 

[Linux-SWAT]

About Firefox slowdowns, deleting it's appdata/*firefox folder is reported to solve speed issues.

 

[Kumaki]

That is why you get a dumbphone. No one said you should do without the phone. Just that you don't need a goddam smartphone at outrageously expensive price, for what you get. The worst decision I ever made in my life was to get a smartphone, and as soon as my contract is done, that's it.

Regardless of what type of phone you get, you still need *a* phone to make calls and texts, so here the Pandora doesn't "replace" the phone.

And sansa products SUCK ASS. I had a Fuze + before I got the Zune. and I got the Zune because the controls on the Fuze + sucked so hard, I could barely make them work, and 3/4 of the time, they did something other than what I was wanting, when they responded at all, which was less than 1/2 the time.

That's only YOUR opinion. Sansa Clip+ works great for me. It fits in any of my pockets perfectly. It plays all my music now RockBox is on it. It's also quick to access all the controls.
The fact you bought a Zune *after* a Pandora also implies that you didn't find it a great media device (for day to day music) - which makes your point about it replacing an MP3 player moot.

I'm also assuming you have the commerical games that you're emulating, most of us have and own multiple systems...I'd certainly never advocate piracy...I'm a little surprised you would not have considered most folks already HAVE the games in question.

Yeah, that's a valid point, I'll concede this.

Well, since I do not RUDELY walk around all day with earbuds in so that no one can talk to me....Pandy works fine for my music, since I only play it in the car. and that rudeness comment was not directed at you, specifically, but rather at ALL THE PEOPLE out there who seem to have earbud wires growing out of their ears....it is a major pet peeve of mine, because you can't ever get their goddamn attention.

So, directed at me then? I have music playing constantly, and I prefer to not disturb my fellow co-workers by putting earphones in. When I'm needed, I'll remove them, but that's not all that often; and I'd much prefer to listen to music instead of the silence of our office.
It's a great device, and I'm glad I bought one, but I still own a phone, an MP3 player and a netbook. Maybe my situation is different from the norm, who knows.

A. I did not say you didn't need a phone, and that Pandy replaced A PHONE...I said it replaces a SMARTphone. Therefore, no need for the expensive phone, or the expensive data plan.

B. I said my Sansa Fuze + sucked and it did. I'll kiss your ass if you can make the controls on that piece of shit work. I still have the piece of crap up in my home office, unused. It's loaded with 80's music...which I have now all on my Zune. Twenty bucks plus shipping and the piece of shit is yours!

C. I bought the Zune WAY before I bought Pandy. I SAID...if I hadn't bought the Zune before the Pandy, I never would have gotten the Zune. It (the Zune) now sits in the glovebox of my car, unused, except for when I had to send my Pandy back to Link for repairts last week. However, since I DO have it, and it works nice...I'm not exactly willing to part with it at the moment. However, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place if I had already had a Pandy.

D. How do you know you're needed if no-one can get your attention?? No, it was NOT directed at you, specifically, either...but rather at EVERYONE...who has a set of earbud wires growing out of their ears, who shut the world out...to my way of thinking that is a big "fuck you" to the whole world. Hence my peevedness at the practice. I'm sorry, but I do not wish to have to yank a wire out of someone's ear to get their attention when I happen to need them.

E. Who knows, maybe it is MY situation that is different from the norm!

Peace, okay?

 

[ThinkPad]

In 2013, 540 EUR for every day carry hand held device without 3G connectivity and slow browsing is too much for me.

 

[EvilDragon]

In 2013, 540 EUR for every day carry hand held device without 3G connectivity and slow browsing is a JOKE.

Why?


The main usage of the Pandora is not 3G, it's gaming.


Non of my handhelds or any smartphone is doing this as good as my Pandora.


And thanks to Bluetooth tethering, I can surf with 3G as long as I got my phone in my pocket, so there's no need for me here.


For me, a Smartphone without a physical keyboard is a joke.


For me, gaming without physical controls is a joke.


Are all smartphones jokes for me?


Nope. I use my phone to browse the net on the go, to type short messages, to make phone calls and to sync it with my calendar and appointments.


And I use my Pandora to play games, to write longer messages, do webbrowsing, recover data from harddisk, administrate my server, etc.


If you're missing phone features in the Pandora, but not the Pandora features on your phone, then it seems the unique features of the Pandora are not of interest for you.


That's fine. Not everyone wants what the Pandora can do, that's why it seems expensive for these folks.


But you should understand that there are other people who want exactly what the Pandora can do, and they think the price is okay.


I would never buy an iPhone. It can't do anything I need, way too restricted for me. If I could get it for 100 EUR, I might consider buying it to play around a bit, but not for the (in my opinion) WAY overpriced amount of money.


I won't call it a joke though, as there are people who want exactly the simplicity of an iPhone and want to pay extra for that.


And it's the same for the Pandora. Some love everything it can do, others just see the specs and think it's overpriced.

 

[andmaz777]

For the volumes concerned the Pandora is cheap - ok it's also got to be classed as a luxury item due to the cost but what other product competes with it?


The fact that it is selling at all indicates that it is priced correctly albeit at the top end - the recent price drop helped a lot in my opinion.


Have to say though that for web browsing prefer to use my Galaxy Note.


As for the pre orders who are still waiting then I would say after the massive wait (for many life changing events would have occurred whilst waiting) then they deserve to receive their device without paying anything more. A lot of comments have been made about how unfair it is etc etc but they risked all the pre order money whilst current purchasers risk nothing. Just before production in May 2010 every pre order should have been requested to contribute an additional amount with some incentive like keeping queue position. This would have made everything fair.


However, we are where we are and all that can be done now is to believe in ED and hope that Craig comes back and helps to increase sales.


All that can be said to those still waiting is, for 3 years my daughter and her boyfriend constantly wound me up about paying £200 for something that I did not have yet - the day it arrived they understood why I had patiently waited and all they do now if rave about the PSX emulation.

 

[ThinkPad]

I would never buy an iPhone. It can't do anything I need, way too restricted for me. If I could get it for 100 EUR, I might consider buying it to play around a bit, but not for the (in my opinion) WAY overpriced amount of money.

I won't call it a joke though, as there are people who want exactly the simplicity of an iPhone and want to pay extra for that.


And it's the same for the Pandora. Some love everything it can do, others just see the specs and think it's overpriced.

Note taken, I will defiantly edit my post about the joke thing,

Don`t get my wrong I love the Pandora for her gaming performance, but for 500+ Euros the 3G is my turn point.

Also I am pretty sure that I will manage to remotely config/troubleshoot/administrate devices even with touch keyboard if its emergency, but I cannot do it from the street if I don`t have 3G.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Yes, the 1Ghz model to me is very expensive.  Its a perception thing, but I understand why it has been made expensive ie to pay for pre-orders.  

At the end of the day , in regards to it being expensive, everyone will have their opinion. 

The opinion that carries the most weight would come from the Pandora's target market. Unfortunately , it seems the majority of people that would be in the market for a Pandora would see it as very expensive. As ED put it himself:

"Sales of the 1GHz units were good at the beginning but quickly dropped. I probably missed a lot of customers at the GamesCom, because they all liked the Pandora but a lot of them thought the price was way too hight."

 

[elwing]

price is definitely high, but it's not overpriced. I now think I don't really need a pandora, thus I'll never upgrade, for my needs a cheap phone and a GCW0 will be more than enough... and I carry my work's laptop if I really need something else anyway.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I personally have no use of 3G.

 

[_wb_]

How much does a 3G USB dongle cost? I'm pretty sure you can get a Rebirth model + 3G dongle for under 500 EUR. My wife happens to have a 3G dongle (she needs it for her work), it works on my Pandora, but I never use it because 3G connections are slow and expensive and I have wifi anyway nearly everywhere - ok, not on the train, but I'm fine with that, I'm usually either coding or playing games on the train, and I don't really need the internet for that.

 

[ekianjo]

Price is high, but the thing that always amaze me is that once people (at least, certain people) see what you can do with it, they start considering the price as a secondary factor. I can however very much relate with the fact that the 1Ghz is probably still too expensive. The day it can get to the price of the Rebirth it will be a much stronger proposition. 

The Pandora, however, is an investment. It gets better over time. I have a 2 years old smartphone (galaxy s1) which battery is so underpowered that it's almost useless to keep it on the whole day, and which feels slower and slower over time (I am not exactly sure why) - therefore I rarely use it for things apart from browsing. The Pandora is indeed not the best device for browsing, but multitasking on it is so much better than on Android, and it's always very entertaining to see people porting new software for it. There's more and more you can do with it every week, and I end up spending more and more time on it as well. 

The mainstream population will only see it as a gaming device, but it's really a full computer with a full OS that can do so much more. Of course, it would be great for it to be cheaper and for more people to have it (especially the ones who WANT one), and hopefully the price will move down progressively, over time. We'll see. 

 

[ZXDunny]

Yeah, I have to agree. The 1GHz model is way too expensive. I would say it's worth (to me, personally) about 250 quid, no more than that.

D.

 

[klapse]

Every customer and non-customer refutes Karl Marx's "Labor Theory of Value" whenever they decide to buy or not buy the device.


The value of an economic good is determined by the purchaser at time of purchase. It is an individual, subjective amount. The pandora is worth what it costs to everyone who buys one, and not worth it to people who decline to buy one. There is no single absolute, scientific value of all pandoras.


Economics can be quite logical if you follow the right teachers, and ignore jokers like Marx

 

[_wb_]

Marx' theory of economics is fine. He distinguishes value from price, which makes sense. Price is subjective and influenced by things like supply and demand. Value corresponds to the total labor that is needed to produce the thing (including the labor needed to produce the production tools, raw resources, education etc.). While the value of labor is by definition constant, its price can also fluctuate, e.g. compare underpaid Chinese workers and German workers.

Usually, the price is set to be higher than the value, because companies need to generate profits. This is also the case for the Pandora - although here it's more about offsetting earlier losses.

The production process currently used to make Pandoras is relatively expensive (small-scale etc), so they probably cost more to produce than their actual theoretical value.

The value of an economic good is determined by the state of the technology and the social circumstances (which can influence the price of labor). Twenty years ago the value of a Pandora would be huge, because with the technology of that time, it would take a NASA budget to produce them. In twenty years the value of a Pandora will probably be very low, because anyone will be able to just 3D print one on their cheap personal 3D printer. At any given point in time, there is such a thing as the value of a Pandora though. It is probably around 150 EUR or so at the moment, because that would be roughly the production cost if it could be mass-produced in factories at wage conditions that are average in the industry. Of course only big companies can actually produce goods at a cost corresponding to their value - small companies do not have the kind of capital needed to achieve that kind of efficiency, so in general, they tend to be out-competed by the big companies and go bankrupt.

The price of an economic good is determined by the seller, who of course tends to take into account what potential buyers are willing to spend on it. If the market has a lot of competition, the price tends to fluctuate around the value. Most markets don't have a lot of competition though. In case of monopolies, prices can be completely unrelated to value.

So yes, obviously the price of the Pandora is higher than it's value. That would even be the case if they would be sold at zero profit, since the OpenPandora Team does not have the kind of capital (money and infrastructure) needed to produce Pandoras at their theoretical value; this would take a company like Nintendo, Apple or Sony.

Is it overpriced though? I don't think so. Both Craig and ED still made a net loss; I would only consider calling it overpriced when their debts are paid.