Pandora is WAY overpriced????

[Mr_Loon]

Although the pricing is understandable his feedback is valuable though.

This cannot be stressed enough.

Far, far, more people will look at the Pandora & run a mile when they see the price rather than posting their genuine feelings.

The current price is the only thing that gets a bigger look of incredulity than the fact that my CC Original unit was 'made in England' when I preach the joys of Pandora to the unconverted. I can count about 5 or 6 times when after showing someone with geeky / retro inclination the Pandora their immediate reaction was 'I'm so going to buy one of those' only for it to change to 'but not at that price'.

ED knows the current state of Sales, I trust his judgement & knowledge when it comes to the timing of a price drop for the 1Ghz units.

We all know that the current profit on 1 Ghz units is incredibly high for this type of product. (when sales cost - production cost is taken as that measure of profit)

However there are less obvious factors that make this high price necessary, things like that 600Mhz units still must be sold, Craig still has large numbers of 1 Ghz pre orders etc.

 

[bagmouse7]

This is the same thing that someone says when they walk away from a Ferrari dealership....  

"Man, that is a sweet car but it is just too expensive."

Guess what, the rich guys can't get enough of them for one main reason (and one side reason).  

There is only ONE Ferrari AND you get a lot of women driving one around (this is the side reason).


The exact same situation applies with the Pandora (including the women... well not really...)

 

[Timstertoo]

This is the same thing that someone says when they walk away from a Ferrari dealership....  

"Man, that is a sweet car but it is just too expensive."

Guess what, the rich guys can't get enough of them for one main reason (and one side reason).  

There is only ONE Ferrari AND you get a lot of women driving one around (this is the side reason).


The exact same situation applies with the Pandora (including the women... well not really...)

A Ferrari, although not my supercar of choice, is better looking, faster and more luxurious then the fast majority of other cars.

The Pandora is not better looking, faster and more luxurious then most other devices out there. It's a niche product for geeks, not a bling device for suits.

I'd sooner compare the Pandora to something like an old Defender. It's made in Britain, relatively expensive, crude, breaks down a lot but highly customisable and likeminded people look at you in envy whilst you can never explain to others why on earth you'd not just buy a Nissan Leaf. (sorry, couldn't resist the Nissan bit   )

 

[vcoleiro1]

It is expensive, more so than it should be , but its for a reason, unfortunately that reason is to pay for the remaining original pre-orders.

The price should come down significantly after the pre-orders are cleared one would hope.

 

[Timstertoo]

It is expensive, more so than it should be , but its for a reason, unfortunately that reason is to pay for the remaining original pre-orders.

The price should come down significantly after the pre-orders are cleared one would hope.

I fully agree and understand. But it's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation.

Maybe if ED lowers the price and every 4 Pandoras sold take care of 1 pre order instead of the current ratio (assuming the current ration is better) if it generates much more sales it would clear the pre order line sooner and also give the Pandora a new boost.

It's of course impossible to tell and not worth doing without some form of decent marketing aimed at getting new people into the scene. 

Maybe if someone gives ED some help with the marketing ED can do a probe and lower the price for a week as a promotion and see how that pans out. Aim for April for instance so there's enough time to let the marketing create some momentum.

It's just speculation from my side but the combination of the specs not being as sexy as they were 2 years ago (regardless of the fact if it can still easily do what it's built for, that's not the discussion, it's about a sense of value for new customers comparing it with products on the market now) and all the drama and shitty customer service that is still tainting this project the price is a real put off. I wouldn't buy one at the current 1GhZ price  three years ago and certainly not now although I still really want this product.

 

[elwing]

well, it's rather simple, if you think it's overpriced you are probably not needing a pandora. if you really do, there's no competition, you'dd need more devices to be able to perform the same and not for much less... if it's the only available  solution how can it be overpriced?

 

[ElPoco]

The original price felt right to me. It turns out it the costs were higher than that price, but if I had been told back then that it would cost the current production price, I wouldn't have pre-ordered. 

That's why I still don't upgrade.

 

[canseco]

OpenPandora needs evangelist, put a price off 700$, reduce fabrication cost to 334$ and say how cool it is.

The only problem is they need to sell milions not hundreds...

 

[elwing]

The original price felt right to me. It turns out it the costs were higher than that price, but if I had been told back then that it would cost the current production price, I wouldn't have pre-ordered. 

That's why I still don't upgrade.

ho, I'm exactly in the same boat, but on the other hand, I don't really need a pandora, my incoming GCW0 will suit me almost as good as the pandora would have. I'll never pay the upgrade and I feel i'll never get my preorder, nor a refund... but the fact stands that, if you are really needing a pandora you have no other alternative, thus it's not overpriced for this tiny niche, the day a competitor comes with a similar product openpandora will die pretty soon if they are not able to cut their price by a huge amount through...

 

[Mr_Loon]

... if it's the only available  solution how can it be overpriced?

If (in the long term) total profit generated was increased by lowering the sale cost of the Pandora. The total profit would be increased by generating additional sales.

Your argument was good when demand for the Pandora outstripped supply, now that supply outstrips demand it is very easy to see how the unit could be overpriced, for instance what if the sale price was $10,000? It would still be the only solution but my guess is overall profits would decrease.

 

[TrashyMG]

For a cute bunny elwing you're pretty harsh.

 

[ensoniq2k]

I will never understand how people are willing to pay 500 euro or more for a phone which they pay with their contract fee but feel ripped of when there is a high quality product that is way more exclusive a d awesome than any iphone or android device that costs more than a crappy China tablet... For me the battery life alone is enough to pay the price. There is no device on the market that you could use that long without recharging.

 

[Timstertoo]

well, it's rather simple, if you think it's overpriced you are probably not needing a pandora. if you really do, there's no competition, you'dd need more devices to be able to perform the same and not for much less... if it's the only available solution how can it be overpriced?

It would indeed that simple if I hadn't already paid for the product I want at the price it was worth it to me.

Point in this discussion is not if the price level is understandable, it's if it's viable. I don't think people are really queueing up for it right now.


How many consecutive weeks has GC churned out Pandoras at max capacity (I believe thats 250 units) to keep up with Christmas demand? If you can't move a decent amount of units then, what is your expextation of sales in February at this price level without marketing?


It's nice that so many people who have one feel it's really worth the money but from a business perpective it's much more important right now that people who don't have one get that feeling.


Edit: Ninja'd by several people,apologies for repeating points made by them.

 

[Mr_Loon]

I will never understand how people are willing to pay 500 euro or more for a phone which they pay with their contract fee but feel ripped of when there is a high quality product that is way more exclusive a d awesome than any iphone or android device that costs more than a crappy China tablet... For me the battery life alone is enough to pay the price. There is no device on the market that you could use that long without recharging.

From a personal perspective it's because I find it good value to pay €20 a month to make & receive mobile phone calls. The 'free' phone that comes with the contract is a bonus.

It would be a huge mistake for the leaders of our Pandora project to bury their heads in the sand and keep berating 'crappy Chinese stuff', quality will improve over the coming years. It was not so long ago that Japanese goods were viewed in the same way that Chinese goods are viewed today. The UK electronics industry buried its head in the sand and berated the low quality of Japanese imports. Consumers made the final decision, the UK electronics industry did not fare well.

 

[TrashyMG]

^ In the US, the smart phones are not free.. to get an equivalent upgrade to my current smart phone I need to dish out $299.00 and pay a $90 monthly fee for a 2GB capped data service, thanks Verizon. Luckily I still have my old unlimited data plan($30 dollars cheaper) until they force me to upgrade my phone.

Now if you compare the Pandora with a smartphone in the US, then it seems a ton more affordable.

 

[EvilDragon]

How many consecutive weeks has GC churned out Pandoras at max capacity (I believe thats 250 units) to keep up with Christmas demand? If you can't move a decent amount of units then, what is your expextation of sales in February at this price level without marketing?

]Well, right now, we're selling about 3 - 4 per day, and I've just sent out a few units to press and reviewers to gain more popularity.


FOSDEM and flyers will hopefully also help.


Lately, sales have been increasing, probably because more Pandoras are out in the wild and a lot more software has been released as well.

Right now, the price is 453 EUR.

If I would lower it to 353 EUR (100 EUR less), I would have to sell more than double as many units to get the same profit.

I doubt sales will DOUBLE because of those 100 EUR, so it wouldn't make sense to lower it right now.

 

[Kumaki]

^ In the US, the smart phones are not free.. to get an equivalent upgrade to my current smart phone I need to dish out $299.00 and pay a $90 monthly fee for a 2GB capped data service, thanks Verizon. Luckily I still have my old unlimited data plan($30 dollars cheaper) until they force me to upgrade my phone.

Now if you compare the Pandora with a smartphone in the US, then it seems a ton more affordable.

Amen to that...as a US smartphone owner can tell you! Verizon sucks ass. I hate them so much. As soon as my contract with thm is done I am dropping them, and going back to a dumbphone. The Pandy does anything I ever wanted my smartphone to do, so there's no point keeping it. and that is a savings of about $60 a month (the price difference between smartphone versus dumbphone service) So with just that, in ten months to a year, Pandy pays for itself.

Not to mention, had this device been available when I got my Zune, for near $250...I could have saved that money. Pandy plays music, can pipe thru car speakers or any otther speakers. More savings. What's not to love, right?

I will never understand how people are willing to pay 500 euro or more for a phone which they pay with their contract fee but feel ripped of when there is a high quality product that is way more exclusive a d awesome than any iphone or android device that costs more than a crappy China tablet... For me the battery life alone is enough to pay the price. There is no device on the market that you could use that long without recharging.

I agree. The battery life means it lasts me thru an entire business day, which makes it imminently useful in the business world...this is FAR more than a gaming device.

It's just speculation from my side but the combination of the specs not being as sexy as they were 2 years ago (regardless of the fact if it can still easily do what it's built for, that's not the discussion, it's about a sense of value for new customers comparing it with products on the market now) and all the drama and shitty customer service that is still tainting this project the price is a real put off. I wouldn't buy one at the current 1GhZ price  three years ago and certainly not now although I still really want this product.

Yeah, go ahead and compare:

Pandy is not built of snot, and you can take it apart if you want.

No Manufacturer restrictions on how you use it

No "upgrades" designed to limit your ability to use it

Made with labor treated right and paid well, instead of in a Chinese sweat shop

There is no freaking comparison, really.

It is expensive, more so than it should be , but its for a reason, unfortunately that reason is to pay for the remaining original pre-orders.

The price should come down significantly after the pre-orders are cleared one would hope.

If the price is what you are worrying about, see my quote above on what you CAN save once you get a Pandy, and it pays for itself in relatively short time.

 

[Timstertoo]

How many consecutive weeks has GC churned out Pandoras at max capacity (I believe thats 250 units) to keep up with Christmas demand? If you can't move a decent amount of units then, what is your expextation of sales in February at this price level without marketing?

]Well, right now, we're selling about 3 - 4 per day, and I've just sent out a few units to press and reviewers to gain more popularity.


FOSDEM and flyers will hopefully also help.


Lately, sales have been increasing, probably because more Pandoras are out in the wild and a lot more software has been released as well.

Right now, the price is 453 EUR.

If I would lower it to 353 EUR (100 EUR less), I would have to sell more than double as many units to get the same profit.

I doubt sales will DOUBLE because of those 100 EUR, so it wouldn't make sense to lower it right now.

3/4 a day is more then I thought you were doing right now. So pretty good!

How long will it take you to work through the queue if, for the sake of the argument, the sales stay the same from now on?

How do you know what the effect on sales will be wihen you raise or lower the price? Have you had any research done in the price elasticity of your product? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand)

What if you would initially sell 125% of the current volume at 100 lower, what would the snowball effect of the extra units in the wild be in 6 months?

Is the opposite maybe true? Will lowering the price not change the volume at all? Will raising the price not change the volume? In that case you should raise the price.

I have the feeling the price right now is set with taking care of the queues in mind. And although the fact that you are taking on Craig's queue, with me depressingly far down the line, is undeniable noble, you should really set your price with maximising sales/profit in mind. And seeing it as a way to build the community bigger and have a flying start with a Pandora 2. 

@Kumaki I'm not attacking the Pandora, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a potential new customer and follow his track of thought. How do these people who haven't heard of the Pandora and see a mention of it somewhere with some specs get the gist of what you are saying? What actions are taken to inform these people and market the product? If these actions are taken, why isn't ED selling 20 a day for such an undeniable fantastic product? We need new customers, not discussions about if the Pandora is great or not. Most people on this board are here for that reason. Preaching to the chior.

 

[ekianjo]

How many consecutive weeks has GC churned out Pandoras at max capacity (I believe thats 250 units) to keep up with Christmas demand? If you can't move a decent amount of units then, what is your expextation of sales in February at this price level without marketing?

]Well, right now, we're selling about 3 - 4 per day, and I've just sent out a few units to press and reviewers to gain more popularity.


FOSDEM and flyers will hopefully also help.


Lately, sales have been increasing, probably because more Pandoras are out in the wild and a lot more software has been released as well.

Right now, the price is 453 EUR.

If I would lower it to 353 EUR (100 EUR less), I would have to sell more than double as many units to get the same profit.

I doubt sales will DOUBLE because of those 100 EUR, so it wouldn't make sense to lower it right now.

3/4 a day is more then I thought you were doing right now. So pretty good!

How long will it take you to work through the queue if, for the sake of the argument, the sales stay the same from now on?

How do you know what the effect on sales will be wihen you raise or lower the price? Have you had any research done in the price elasticity of your product? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand)

What if you would initially sell 125% of the current volume at 100 lower, what would the snowball effect of the extra units in the wild be in 6 months?

Is the opposite maybe true? Will lowering the price not change the volume at all? Will raising the price not change the volume? In that case you should raise the price.

There's already enough people complaining about the high price, we do not need to go higher - it's obious it wont sell as well if you increase...

 

[Kumaki]

@Kumaki I'm not attacking the Pandora, I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a potential new customer and follow his track of thought. How do these people who haven't heard of the Pandora and see a mention of it somewhere with some specs get the gist of what you are saying? What actions are taken to inform these people and market the product? If these actions are taken, why isn't ED selling 20 a day for such an undeniable fantastic product? We need new customers, not discussions about if the Pandora is great or not. Most people on this board are here for that reason. Preaching to the chior.

I know Tim, but threads like this do not help get Pandy a good name. Threads like the one I posted, and very few have noticed, about the usefulness of Pandy in everyday/business life...threads like me pointing out that Pandy can pay for itself by replacing smartphone, Zune/iPod, etc...THAT would help.