Pandora 2 should be a 5" Linux Tablet with no built in gaming controls, but... - With Hinge & Attach

[sswam]

I've thought about this before.

I agree with the OP, but I would go further.

Pandora 2 should be:

+ a top-quality top of the range stock commercial phone made by another manufacturer

+ a beefed-up iCP2, containing Pandora goodies that the phone is missing:

  - connected by fast USB

  - extra battery  (sorry Exophase)

  - full-size USB

  - two SD ports

  - audio amp circuitry and hardware volume control  (jack plugs in the bottom, Exophase)

  - infra-red (new feature, for controlling TVs and such)

+ full Pandora Linux, based on Debian Ubuntu (so that Ubuntu does the hardest work for us), with PND support

+ the Android that came with the phone

+ a clip-on, easily-removable case / holder, keeps phone and iCP2 together, makes it look like a Pandora

+ it should be sold all together, but also sell components and alternatives separately

I know you will get upset - this is not so "Indie" - "Oh, boo hoo, it's not indie unless we do all the work and reinvent the wheel ourselves!"

"who cares if it takes 10 years to get it right and recover from financial disasters, again !!!"  <rabid mouth frothing ensues>

If we do it my way, we will certainly end up with a vastly better product.

The advantages are numerous:

+ much quicker, easier, safer development process, don't have to build a whole new computer, less disasters and bankruptcy

+ can use the strongest SoC that is available in a phone

+ truly modular design

+ no need for a separate phone, this saves money and frees up your other pocket

+ Ubuntu reckons, no need for a separate PC.  I tend to agree.

+ much cheaper, save a lot of money due to economy of scale in the phone, and due to not needing a separate phone

+ can detach the phone part, and use it as a phone / tablet

+ can detach the iCP2 part, and use it as a controller / remote

+ can easily replace or customise the case

+ can easily upgrade or replace the CPU / phone part, just plug in a new compatible phone

+ can easily upgrade or replace the iCP2 part

+ easily install most any GNU/Linux software, thanks to Ubuntu

+ also runs newest Android without any porting effort on our part

+ approved by google as an Android device, can use google market

+ extra phone feature: GPS

+ extra phone feature: cellular internet

+ extra phone feature: phone calls and texts

+ extra phone feature: gyro

+ extra phone feature: compass

+ extra phone feature: motion sensors

+ extra phone feature: HD or 3D camera

+ extra phone feature: HD or 3D screen with multitouch

+ extra phone feature: HD video out with stock cables

+ extra phone feature: licensed for mp4 hardware encoding / decoding

+ can use two off-the-shelf batteries instead of one "magic gaffer tape" battery

+ no LCD video cable in the hinge, so it can't break

+ could plug in an x86 or MIPS phone for variety, and to play different games

+ no doubt several other things I forgot to mention

The disadvantages?  pfft.

- not so "Indie"

- two batteries instead of one, might lose some power efficiency, but that is needed to use the phone / controller separately.

- phone / case integration challenge, exposing connectors and such

- less "integrated".  Whoops! that's actually a big advantage.  Hooray for modular design and the UNIX way.

I honestly can't think of any other disadvantages, because I designed this to be good.

Please let me know if you can think of some problem with this idea, I happily allay your concerns.  But don't troll or diss me, please.

    

Now, please bow if you will and acknowledge that DREDD has come up with a really good idea here.

Don't troll me with ill-considered responses, at least read what I said and think about it for 10 minutes first.

A friend of mine already called the OP an idiot, but the OP is not an idiot.  And I am no idiot.  I have >99% percentile grades to prove it.

If you insult someone like that, or even just reject and insult a new idea without thinking, it only makes YOU look silly.

edit:  some of my other post/s on this topic, with contrary responses following, by our esteemed Exophase and others!

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/9934-pandora-2-is-modular/?p=186337

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/10851-15e pandora/?p=202168

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/10851-15e pandora/?p=202424

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/10851-15e pandora/?p=202442

 

[Exophase]

Well since we already argued about it on that other thread I'm not just going to repeat everything I said there. How about linking to that instead?

 

[Nintendo]

m(_ _ )m

 

[sswam]

Well since we already argued about it on that other thread I'm not just going to repeat everything I said there. How about linking to that instead?

I improved my ideas since then:

* clip-on case around the outside, too, so it looks like a Pandora - and can switch cases for great joy

* use a phone supported by Ubuntu, so we don't need to do our own kernel / base system, or can at least start with theirs

Using an Ubuntu / Android phone gives us yet another massive advantage on the software front

Exophase, can you contradict any of the TWENTY-EIGHT major advantages that I listed?

Would a Pandora not based on a phone be likely to have any of those advantages?

Or, would you please list any more disadvantages you can think of?

I've addressed many of your concerns already, and I'd like to further improve my idea by taking your criticism.

Hell, if OPT don't do it this way, and they REALLY SHOULD, I might try to do it myself.  Anyone like to help?

I'm keen, and my modular device would totally wipe the floor with any Pandora that's built otherwise, for the TWENTY-EIGHT reasons outlined above.  This is a Fact.

 

[thatgui]

For me, I've thought about this before.

I agree with the OP, but I would go further.

Pandora 2 should be:

...

I don't understand where OP would fit in here.

The beefed up ICP2 would have to compete with a lot of attachable game controllers, with features probably not many people are willing to pay extra for as most of the important hardware features are already in the phone.

Leaving the software side as the "deal breaker", which was solely (more or less) in the hands of the community. Also why should anyone keep the pnd system as it is now, if there is already a debian derivat as the main system with a full-fledged package management system - especially if most of the Pandoras repertoire is already covered by it.

 

[sswam]

I don't understand where OP would fit in here.

OPT would (I wish) make the beefed up iCP2, the external cases, connectors and such; and sell the package.


Some people would want it - like Pandora and iControlPad - because it is a really good pocket computer, unique, and better than anything else out there for what it does.


It's okay if copycats make similar and compatible things, that is a sign of great success when people copy you - and vice versa learning from others and using their ideas can lead to great success.

why should anyone keep the pnd system as it is now, if there is already a debian

I like the PND system, at least the basic idea of it; to have single file for each app, keep them self-contained and separate from the operating system.  Using a folder for each app like /opt/foo would be a reasonable alternative.  I like Debian too, don't get me wrong. But I don't like that the files and data for apps are scattered all over the place. I used a N900 with Maemo (based on Debian), and I much prefer using PND versus stuffing about trying to make all the software I use fit onto it.  It's much easier to upgrade or reflash the base system too.  PND is good.  Craigix is good too.  My opinion.


I know some people would be very happy to get rid of PND and switch to Debian, I'm not one of them but Debian does have its advantages too, such as a massive library of software with source and binaries that will run as it is. We could convert Debian packages to PND and vice versa automatically.

 

[hedwards]

But Linux devices like that are a dime a dozen here in China and if you go to taobao or alibaba you can get them for yourself.

Interesting, can you give a link to anything that comes running Linux & Android out of the box & has a hinged case that converts the device into a mini laptop when the keyboard & gaming controls are clipped into the bottom section?

I may have misunderstood, but you can clip an iCP2 onto many of tablets  like that all over the place.

 

[thatgui]

OPT would (I wish) make the beefed up iCP2, the external cases, connectors and such; and sell the package.

...

That was not the point I was trying to make. The points is : why should anyone buy that if it is not really able to differentiate itself from the market ?

I like the PND system, at least the basic idea of it; to have single file ...

I'm torn about this matter, I do like the pnd system, but there are also some cons about it. At least it would need a heavy rework in order to get more mass appeal

We could convert Debian packages to PND and vice versa automatically. 

Hard to believe that this will work more than 20% of time

 

[sswam]

That was not the point I was trying to make. The points is : why should anyone buy that if it is not really able to differentiate itself from the market ?

Did you read my suggestion? It would be quite very different! There is nothing like the Pandora now, and there would be nothing else like what I am suggesting, either. It would admittedly be easier to copy it, though.

 

[danielo515]

Looks like some people spend more time thinking how the new pandora should be instead of playing his actual pandora.

 

[Nintendo]

This might become a ten−pager thread.

 

[thatgui]

Did you read my suggestion? It would be quite very different! There is nothing like the Pandora now, and there would be nothing else like what I am suggesting, either. It would admittedly be easier to copy it, though. 

I did and my question still remains:

- Main unit: cellphone => nothing OP can shine on,

- attached unit: "beefed up" ICP, lots of competitors already out there, and new ones getting churned out quite often => OP will have a hard time competing with that, especially if the beefing up process significantly increases the price.

- clip on / removable place holder, device of the icp "class" usually have them included, so it would sell only as an addon to the attached unit. By saying the whole device will look like a Pandora, you suggest that it will be a clamshell device. Which could leed to a constant need for developing / building adapters as you naturally would try to support as many phones as possible, but cellphone companies usually don't care much about accessories manufacturers.

 

[klapse]

I don't want to clip iCP2 to something because it's too small and gives a sub-optimal distribution of weight and features. I don't want to have two batteries in different locations, that's a less efficient use of space.

Yes, me too.

I don't want to have all the ports and slots on the top, and I don't want to have sound coming out of the back of the screen. I don't want headphones coming out of the screen. I don't want all the weight to be on the part away from my hands.

And this.

The holder for the iCP2, while novel, still looks like a compromise vs something integrated. A hinge arrangement has to be seriously heavy duty to prevent the top from being too heavy for it. Getting a standalone tablet with a 5" screen that matches the iCP2's dimensions is going to be pretty much impossible.

And this ... pretty much settles the debate.

There isn't any overall improvement over ICP+smartphone possible if the Pandora2 were to go this route. The top part would end up bulkier than a smartphone while packing less tech. The idea of a battery movable to the base would be pretty clever though and one point in favor of the idea.

 

[Binky]

So:

Major disadvantage of iCP2-phablet clip: its too big, complicated and fragile

Solution: add a relocatable battery system!

 

[archlord666]

Calm down everyone. it is sure hot there.

About the screen, i don't really care about which type of screen is. galaxy wifi is a sweet compact device. that's why i took it as an example.

Using this example, i imagine a fully featured device based on this, linux capable and connected to an ICP2.

i hope you get my pov now

 

[Mr_Loon]

OK, I've put a little sketch together, which should help people visualise the concept.

@ Dredd : In my opinion you're close, but no Cigar, Pandora 2 should be a fully featured mini laptop not a phone strapped to an ICP. I'd really want to see full size USB3 & SDXC in the tablet section.

@ Everyone else : If the battery could be removable from the tablet & attachable to the base unit, the hinge + attachment mechanism was sturdy and the grip was ergonomic, do you really think you would lose more than you gain?

You would of course be able to have batteries connected to both the tablet & base unit.

 

[monstercameron]

or the pandora can have 2 screens a la the ausu taichi

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/4/3062240/asus-taichi-computex-announcement-pictures

classic pandora and touchscreen device!

 

[Binky]

Why not attach the tablety bit onto the iCP bit with the camera tripod mounting?

 

[Mr_Loon]

Why not attach the tablety bit onto the iCP bit with the camera tripod mounting?

I'm not sure it would be sturdy enough.

Please don't get bogged down with design details though. What I'm trying to do here is present a concept.

Here's what I think this concept brings to the table :

Pocketable Clamshell style mini laptop with hardware keyboard + gaming controls

Tremendous versatility (TV Out with base unit detatched, Tablet only, ICP2 controlling other Devices etc.)

Easier to design / fabricate than a P1 style mini laptop

Base unit makes it superior to using a Smartphone + ICP2 (Ergonomics / extra ports in laptop mode)

Keeps the 'Indie hardware dream' alive

Sure, there are issues & compromises, but this thing if built right would have huge appeal to geeks.

As for the all important issue of cost, I fully admit I lack any sort of expertise in this area and that $250 could be wildly optimistic for the price of the mini tablet. Let's push that figure to $350, add in $75 for the ICP2 and then $75 for the base unit (sounds expensive but quality + sturdiness count). That comes in at a pretty reasonable $500. Pandora 1Ghz units currently retail at $719.

 

[Nintendo]

Very convenient setup you have there...


/sarcs