Pandora 2 should be a 5" Linux Tablet with no built in gaming controls, but... - With Hinge & Attach

[Binky]

The P2 needs:

• more standardised connectors (HDMI, 3.5mm stereo line in, 0.1" PCB headers, internal* & external USB3, SDXC4.0)
• more buttons (L2, R2, 5 user-mapped hotkeys along each side, extra row on keyboard)
• Better quality case contruction.
• The inevitable benefits of being made in 2015

* Don't bother with microSD, use a mini USB stick if you want more than one SD slot - 400MB/s isn't bad, is it?

 

[klapse]

The mobile computing world was a totally different place in 2008-2009, when the Pandora concept was developed, except for one thing: there still is no competitor for an open, linux, clamshell device with gaming controls!


I am still in love with my Pandora and N900. They do everything I wanted and more. The main thing they are weak on is handling multiple opened websites that run heavy javascript. I wish browsers would give javascript low priority so it never interferes with system responsiveness.


On topic: the idea for a tablet style openpandora2 is not so good, since it would compete with smartphones and phablets (and probably lose). If you want that, just get an ICP2 and phone.

 

[Stainy]

A Linux tablet with no built in controls????

You're an idiot....

Let's build on the success of the first Pandora by making ANOTHER tablet with no physical controls...Completely deviating from the one thing that makes the Pandora such a unique piece of hardware.

Tablets with no physical controls...........two a penny...

 

[Nintendo]

^ I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Askarus]

A Linux tablet with no built in controls???? You're an idiot.... Let's build on the success of the first Pandora by making ANOTHER tablet with no physical controls...Completely deviating from the one thing that makes the Pandora such a unique piece of hardware. Tablets with no physical controls...........two a penny...

And I was afraid my words were to hard.

Everyone will agree with you.

 

[Binky]

The mass-market wants phones, tablets and phablets

The mass-market is flooded with phones, tablets and phablets

This means that demand for aditional phones, tablets and phablets is very small.

Therefore, the P2 should be neither a phone, tablet nor phablet

 

[Mr_Loon]

A Linux tablet with no built in controls???? You're an idiot.... Let's build on the success of the first Pandora by making ANOTHER tablet with no physical controls...Completely deviating from the one thing that makes the Pandora such a unique piece of hardware. Tablets with no physical controls...........two a penny...

Did you read the first post rather than just the thread title? If you did then you seem to be forgetting the big BUT :

The Pandora mini Tablet would be seamlessly integrated with ICP2. You therefore have a full Keyboard & Gaming controls.

If a hinged clip in case could be made that when closed it was of similar dimension or smaller than P1 then you'd have a pocket friendly laptop with built in gaming controls.

___________________________

Think of the following usage scenarios :

You're playing Dodonpachi on the train on the way home, your stop is approaching, so you save state and hibernate the device. Get home, have a bite to eat and then settle in for a bit of couch based gaming, you resume from hibernation plug the Dragonscale into your TV, unclip the controls, load the state and then are immediately killed by an overwhelming hail of bullets.

You're going on a long journey and want to travel light, but you fancy watching a few hours of video, but not having to recharge your phone, in that case just take the tablet section.

etc.

___________________________

Think also of the purchasing options to potential users :

You can buy :

Just the tablet (you may already have an ICP2, you may wish to use a different keyboard / controller)

Tablet + ICP2 (you may intend to use the device as a desktop replacement or use the ICP2 hinge clamp)

Tablet + ICP2 + Hinged case (you get the full Pandora mini laptop experience)

You can of course also buy the ICP2 / Hinged case at a later date.

___________________________

Here is my specific question to the Naysayers :

If an ergonomic, compact & functional clip in case could be made then what do you lose in having the keyboard / gaming controls in a removable format?

 

[monstercameron]

why do you pandora guys oppose change so violently? Mr_Loon proposes an idea of what he would like in the next pandora then he is called an idiot and his idea shunned in favor of a design that was thought up nearly 4 years ago.

 

[Nintendo]

I don't want an add-on.

 

[archlord666]

@ Dramurt: thumbs up for KDE4 on a smartphone

further more using the xperia play concept in order to reduce the size of the device is a good idea ( replacing joysticks, by touchpad, sacrificing jouability).


Another interesting idea is to use keyless instead of keyboard. have a look here http://www.zmescience.com/research/inventions/touchpad-keyboard-fujitsu-16052011/


i really want to draw it to show what i mean but the resulting thing is kinda cool.

 


If I wanted a smartphone with touch controls I'd buy one. I like my pandora because it has real buttons.

I understand your concern.  i am only presenting a concept there . Pandora is an awesome device. The existence of a keyboard is very cool.

the existence of a real keyboard on the pandora 2 is also a good thing. So i am not against it.

But to answer your concern...

Well, Is there any smartphone with touch controls out the main screen?.... NO. NO and NO .  One device could be close of this concept. Sony tablet p with 2 touchscreen. But i am not talking about a second touchscreen but only a touch control. So This kind of device doesn't exist. it's true that real keyboard gives a good feeling. but touch board allows many configurations. (and could be less expensive too?)  

Reduction of the size of the keys

Modification of the layout.

Software Modification of the language of the touch board (azerty , qwerty , arabic.....)

And so one.

Touch board are not tablet touch screen. it also allows to reduce the size of the device. It will be like having a second touchscreen only for typing things and also playing while the main screen is completly free.

 

[Binky]

My point was that touch controls are horrible. A keyboard without mechanical feedback is smartphone without a root password.
Also consider the additional power/CPU-time consumption of a second screen, the requirement to stare at the keyboard as you type and that the keyboard (one much better than the one in the P1) has already been designed.
 
Have fun playing games while staring at the controls and ensuring that your thumb is still on the dpad.

---

As to Mr Loon's idea, I'm worried a rugged clamp+hinge assembly could'nt be done in a small enough space.

Two batteries and two PCBs wouldn't help with this either.

Making a touchscreen phablet integrate with an iCP is mostly a software problem, and with ubuntu mobile &c on the horizon, this will become easier.

A phablet+iCP2 configuration would be larger, less space efficient and have a fiddlyer case design than the P1, while duplication work done by big-budget professional smartphone designers.

Most pandora customers want the most functionality that will fit in their pocket, and real physical controls.

What you are suggesting would undermine both of these

There have been calls for a somewhat smaller/thinner P2 with more functionality. a second PCB, battery and layer of case (holding the parts into a clamshell) would not help with this at all.

 

[archlord666]

And by the way. In my concept, the gamepad remains physicals while the keyboard is become touchless. There is no way i will allow a gamepad to be touchless.

 

[Binky]

And by the way. In my concept, the gamepad remains physicals while the keyboard is become touchless. There is no way i will allow a gamepad to be touchless.

You regard a touch gamepad as unacceptable, I regard a touch keyboard as unacceptable.

Probably for the same reasons

 

[3_bit]

So a razer edge gaming tablet but with an ARM processor and a smaller screen? I'll take it, because my iPod touch 3rd gen is getting old and I could use a new companion device.

 

[Mr_Loon]

As to Mr Loon's idea, I'm worried a rugged clamp+hinge assembly could'nt be done in a small enough space.


Two batteries and two PCBs wouldn't help with this either.


Making a touchscreen phablet integrate with an iCP is mostly a software problem, and with ubuntu mobile &c on the horizon, this will become easier.


A phablet+iCP2 configuration would be larger, less space efficient and have a fiddlyer case design than the P1, while duplication work done by big-budget professional smartphone designers.


Most pandora customers want the most functionality that will fit in their pocket, and real physical controls.


What you are suggesting would undermine both of these


There have been calls for a somewhat smaller/thinner P2 with more functionality. a second PCB, battery and layer of case (holding the parts into a clamshell) would not help with this at all.

These are all good points, but IF (and I appreciate it's a big if) the clip in case is ergonomic, compact & functional I think you would gain far more than you lose by having a detachable control set.

PS I'm still struggling to find a currently available handheld that runs Linux & Android out of the box, looks like we may have a different understanding of the phrase 'ten a penny'.

____________________________

Some personal thoughts and ramblings :

I'm no designer, please understand what I'm trying to do here is merely propose a concept.

To be a true successor to P1, P2 should be a mini laptop with excellent battery life, hardware keyboard and gaming controls.

To have any chance of commercial success then the device would have to cost considerably less than the $699 mooted by Craig.

A 5" tablet with a decent screen is surprisingly good for web surfing / multimedia (based on an hour or so playing with a Galaxy Note).

It's expensive and complex to design / fabricate a mini laptop, my guess is it would be a lot less expensive to design / fabricate a mini tablet.

You could use the 'just use a smart phone running Linux & Android and ICP2 as a pandora replacement' against there being any sort of Pandora 2, I hope that does not transpire to be a good argument.

 

[Binky]

1. I should have said either "tablets that can run linux are ten-a-penny" or "devices than run Android/Linux are ten-a-penny" - In either case, my perception of  frequency is filtered through nerdy websites that get exited about such things. - sorry about that.
2. If the case/hinge could be designed compactly, cheaply and robustly, then this would be a good idea. - This needs a serious hardware designer's opinion.

 

[danielo515]

Dudes, nobody is against this concept, actually it's pretty good, but there are some things you have to think at:

 

This is not a tablet forum. These days I saw lot of tablet-android news coming from the same users. If you're so excited about tablets, buy one, don't ask the scene to make the "tablet of your dreams", this is not the target of Pandora's project.

 


What you are proposing is out of the pandora's team capabilities. Hell, it's even out of the capabilities of some important hardware manufacturers. 

Trying to bite more than you can, was a problem in the past for Pandora, and what you are proposing is nothing but problems, problems and problems, because it's so technically hard...

 

[Mr_Loon]

...

This is not a tablet forum. These days I saw lot of tablet-android news coming from the same users. If you're so excited about tablets, buy one, don't ask the scene to make the "tablet of your dreams", this is not the target of Pandora's project.

This is Pandora 2 Spam, a concept for Pandora 2 seems to be appropriate here.

What you are proposing is out of the pandora's team capabilities. Hell, it's even out of the capabilities of some important hardware manufacturers. 

Trying to bite more than you can, was a problem in the past for Pandora, and what you are proposing is nothing but problems, problems and problems, because it's so technically hard...

Why do you think it is harder to build a mini Tablet than a mini Laptop? A tablet computer is a touchscreen device without hardware gaming controls or keyboard. Why would that be harder to build than a touchscreen device with hardware gaming controls or keyboard?

 

[archlord666]

I think i understand the idea of Mr_Loon. It looks like the concept of asus transformer pad. consisting of two modules the touchscreen part and the keyboard. 

Then Pandora 2 may consist of an undependant touchscreen part and a gamepad-keyboard part. It look like this thing. I modified the original layout in other to be closer of playstation layout. so don't be too hard with me ..ok?  

 

[klapse]

Here is my specific question to the Naysayers :


If an ergonomic, compact & functional clip in case could be made then what do you lose in having the keyboard / gaming controls in a removable format?

Mainly balance. Top part would contain LCD, board, battery etc.. and be too heavy for my taste. I dont see the possibility for opt to make a tablet device as slim as the modern smartphones.

This is not to say that your concept doesn't have the advantages you listed.


EDIT: archlord666 your sketch moves the gaming controls below the keyboard, which would make the unit impossible to hold and play for any extended period.