Pandora 2 is Modular

[ghostpatch]

I mostly agree with Craig but not every standard is good. In some cases they are stupid and only exist to have something to advertise! Like for example electric cars, energy saving lamps (I do not talk about LEDs - LEDs are awesome), 600Hz TVs, more and more pixels but no quality and so on...


microSD card do not have any advantage except smaller size. I still favour "big old SD cards" ; )


Aslo one very important aspect is the price (as mentioned many times). Pandora2 doesn't need to be the best out there. It needs to provide a good open source base for the community. So we can do all sorts of weird things with it

Which is exactly why it's going to be modular.

then why not try to make a base unit for a good price which can be upgraded with premium components you sell. I'd totally pay 200 or even 300 bugs for a 5inch 1920x1080 IPS screen with Wacom pen technology!! (like the Galaxy Note)

Even if we don't have to worry about it, I'd rather have 20h instead of 15h. There is no such thing as "too much battery life" (at least not until we achieve battery life > human life span). There is such a thing as "too high resolution for the human eye".

screen and back light efficiency is also improving. It might make a difference of 5 or 10 minutes but not hours! You can also dim it down which has a noticeable impact on battery life

1280x800, 5" would be ideal.

why that and not 1280x720? 720p movies would be squeezed

 

[ShleeDragon]

There is no point waiting for the next big thing. We just need something with "support".


The Pandora 2.. THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!

 

[Binky]

Aslo one very important aspect is the price (as mentioned many times). Pandora2 doesn't need to be the best out there. It needs to provide a good open source base for the community. So we can do all sorts of weird things with it

We need well documented hardware and to attract a flock of hardcore geeks - although hardware specs are good, price, documentation, and software are more important.


So is performance, which is a combination of specs, documentation and software.


Although the P2 will be the forth OpenProject, something will go wrong in the development/production process (Sod's law) - this could throw the 'best specs ever' thing out the window with even just a 4 month delay


Putting it a different way, the emphasis should be on why the P2 is great, not why its better.


Show off a top-quality keyboard - slick, flexible, user-friendly software - etc


Any word on whether the modularity will be focused on upgrades, or expansion?

 

[bismuthdrummer]

If we go with anything lower we will be left behind so quickly, people seem to be thinking in todays terms, big old SD cards, current resolutions, while we are planning years in advance with the P2 - because every other HW manufacturer is too.

I am with you that 1080p is a good standard in general, but do you think that the current Pandora is getting left behind by contending UMPC's because of its "low res" screen?

 

[Binky]

contending UMPC's

Like the panasonic jungle, the HP *LX series and the ben nanonote?

 

[bismuthdrummer]

contending UMPC's

Like the panasonic jungle, the HP *LX series and the ben nanonote?

I didn't have specific examples in mind as I am not well versed in what is out there. Are people choosing those over Pandora at least in part because of the screen resolution?


EDIT: Nevermind, Google explained this to me. XD

 

[thatgui]

With our huge battery I'd really not worry about power consumption.


We're the Tesla of portable battery life.

Why not worry about power consumption ? Especially with the ICP2 (and competitors) already in the market, battery life is one of the least key selling points of the Pandora. Why scrap that ? Fort this ?

I find it odd you don't want to have a standard here, because 1080 is going to be it, maybe forever for LCDs (until we see some kind of folding or rolling LCD anyway).


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If we go with anything lower we will be left behind so quickly...

No matter what you do, you will be left behind quickly - if your lucky the Pandora 2 will be released right after the last release cycle of the rest of the industry, leaving you maybe four two max. six months till the first manufacturer spits out the next iteration of a product that has a new feature nobody really needs just to get people to buy the new lineup.


I find it rather odd that you can believe in what you gave links to => People excitingly babbeling some nonsense. What the heck ? That was a manufacturer setup, with prepoduction samples in a specially prepared environment. Bring this into a real device, place it into a normal daylit room and place a device with a 720p screen right next to => 95% of the time you will not be able to tell the difference.

There is always a best on the market. When we launch we will be it.

Thats just nonsense (both sentences)

Which is exactly why it's going to be modular.

Modular to what extent ? Hard to believe there will be much modularity at all given that the batteries size won't much differ from the current one and the Pandora 2 will roughly be of the same size. Where will all the space come from that modularity needs ? I'm open for surprises.

1280x800, 5" would be ideal.

why that and not 1280x720? 720p movies would be squeezed

Why would they be squeezed ? It's just 80 pixels of black to "not" enjoy. Why not have 80 Pixels more vertically ?


Instead of cramping needlesly pixels into 4-5" screen why not go for increased visibility in sunlight, lower power consumption, more granularity in adjusting the screens brightness, minimalize ghosting, better color rendering, improving viewing angels, etc ?


Give the people things they can really benefit from, instead of marketing crap. Thus giving yourself valid arguments when trying to convince people to buy the Pandora 2 instead of the iPhone 6 and a ICP2.


Almost forgot: craig you are so old school: wanting 1080p while 2160p is already on its way ?

 

[Scntrblob]

Maybe Craig is just trolling in terms of modularity, rofling under his table right now after reading these reactions.


This whole "best thing on the market" thing is a little too... plain? to be meant serious, who knows, the rest could be joking as well.

 

[ghostpatch]

Why would they be squeezed ? It's just 80 pixels of black to "not" enjoy. Why not have 80 Pixels more vertically ?

thats my mistake. I was thinking about a 16:9 display with1280x800 but _wb_ meant a 16:10 with 1280x800 display..

Almost forgot: craig you are so old school: wanting 1080p while 2160p is already on its way ?

good point lets get one of these

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Id assumed that the screen might be permanent ie not modular and thus needs to be current for as many years as possible to be in line with the modular upgrades.This is why i think craig is going for such a high res. android is fine but I like the pandora specific emulators and devs software etc. Im sure we can have dualboot.

 

[craigix]

Indeed the screen is one part which can't be changed, so that's why it's going to be as good as it can be.


Also, as I've said, it will be the best handheld on the market when launched, we will then aim to keep it that way via the modular nature of the brain board.


Doubters can doubt, tell me about it in 2013.


Then again in 2014.

 

[Exophase]

What are the rules of the game going to be this time? You kept "most powerful handheld in the world" on Pandora's front page long after phones easily surpassed it. So please get out of the way now what "handheld" means so we don't have to go through this nonsense again in 2013 and 2014.

 

[craigix]

What are the rules of the game going to be this time? You kept "most powerful handheld in the world" on Pandora's front page long after phones easily surpassed it. So please get out of the way now what "handheld" means so we don't have to go through this nonsense again in 2013 and 2014.

We intend to keep putting the latest ES on that brain board for as long as there is a market.


You can generally get ES samples months before MP samples.


So I think we can stay ahead pretty much for as long as we like, plus we have some big industry backing for this idea, companies want a HD device to show off their SoCs.

 

[Exophase]

You're going to keep asking for hundreds (if not thousands) of engineering sample chips to sell in production hardware? You think they'll always have these huge allotments of engineering sample chips available for you? And let's say they do, have you looked at the errata on early version, never mind pre-release versions of SoCs? These get released so companies can complete their designs, not so they can be sold


I'm not sure how this works anyway - you get the ESes the same time other companies do, then you still need time to design and manufacture the PCBs that use these chips, while the competition does the same (probably more efficiently) and by the time you're ready, if the SoC vendor isn't fighting with show stopping bugs again, it has entered MP status. What are you going to design the boards with, ESES hardware you get months before the ES hardware?

 

[diegor]

The modular system essentially allows us to charge you less for upgrades (no more buying a whole new system to get a Mhz increase) and keeps us at the potential cutting edge of hardware indefinitely.

Something like this? http://rhombus-tech.net/

 

[Binky]

So the modularity is more about upgrades than expansion?

 

[ShleeDragon]

The idea is. they'll have a base.. the moving parts on one and the tech on another

 

[jonny:Dumb]

The modular system essentially allows us to charge you less for upgrades (no more buying a whole new system to get a Mhz increase) and keeps us at the potential cutting edge of hardware indefinitely.

Something like this? http://rhombus-tech.net/

You are my new friend


http://boards.openpa..._20#entry189761

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I also have the feeling that measuring 'best' by datasheet specs is a really bad idea.


Samsung, Apple, Nokia-Microsoft etc will alway be at the top of that game, while Nintendo can keep up with technically lame hardware.


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I'm not adverse to good processors, screens & the like but they aren't everything.

Agreeing very much!


I like the idea of making good things better, but really don't like this hype thing which tricks me sometimes into buying stuff I relay don't need (I feel very stupid then...). Some devices are not bleeding edge but just very well made, so they please anyway.


Sometimes its pleasant to turn the wheels on some old radios. They just move different. Placement of text is convenient, placement and type of buttons and switches makes sense after a while, sound quality is not the best, but still. I often imagine if we could have that case with better sound hardware in it. I love if a device makes sense. Reading the reviewing posts for the Pandora, i think we have a device like that. The Pandora is no beauty queen, but makes a lot of sense. I am quite a bit in fear that this sense is lost when the run for highest specs becomes the main concern.


I am though very happy to obviously not be the only one with this concern, and that cheers me up a lot.


Reading on the Pandora members site, DaveC seemed to be the wizard behind the Pandora case and keyboard layout. I would love to see him putting his hands on the Pandora 2 case and keyboard with input from the community. There have been some nice constructive post (One about a keyboard from an hp pocket computer(?) which could be used as inspiration). I would try to not destroy the basic form of the Pandora in order to gain modularity, so it stays an awesome standalone device (If conflicting, I would even be against the Rhombus). There where some nice "extension box" concept (Binky was this your idea?) which rather lie behind/next to the Pandora with all kinds of useful stuff in it and different versions for different needs. It was supposed to contain its own battery. I think this is a very flexible concept. The Pandora would not need much more than it has now. Just some tunings and good regression tests . A random number of more stuff could then be added if wished.


Maybe a extensive poll could be used as guideline for what is used the most and missed the most on the current Pandora (On such a poll, the community was on the first place, I have finally to agree, seeing what happened last week and still is).

 

[Binky]

There where some nice "extension box" concept (Binky was this your idea?) which rather lies behind/next to the Pandora with all kinds of useful stuff in it and different versions for different needs. It was supposed to contain its own battery. I think this is a very flexible concept.

Yes. The idea was that you could wirelessly access hardware that is too bulky to fit in your pocket/pandora


Perhaps with ad-hoc wifi, it could operate with a smartphone.


Just as the iCP2 adds wireless keyboard and game controls to a smartphone, this could wirelessly provide USB ports, full SD and whatnot


It would contain:


a battery


wifi/BT chip


USB ports


full-size SD slots


processor capable of doing file serving etc


peripherals absent in the P2


You would be able to set up rules for how each USB device was translated for remote access e.g.


USB mass storage --> file server


HSPDA dongle --> wifi hotspot,


webcam --> streamed video (with optional html-based interface)


GPS dongle --> BT GPS tethering


USB memory card reader --> file server


SD cards --> file server


USB-serial adabtor --> ?


etc


So you can keep extra functionality in your bag, in your other pocket or wherever, and access it from your smartphone, your pandora, your laptop or whatever


It would look like a box with some sockets coming out of it - i.e. a headless, mobile linux server


I also suggested WUSB and WHDI, but there's unlikely to be space for those in a P2

 

[sswam]

the original point I tried to make was that the iCP2 is too small to just "tape" a 5inch screen onto it an call it Pandora 2.0

I'm not sure of the iCP2 dimensions, but it seems to be the same size as an iPhone. The iPhone 5 is 4.87" by 2.31", with a 5.39" diagonal. So there seems to be plenty of room for a 5" screen in a device of that size. The actual iPhone 5 has a four inch screen and speakers much like the first Pandora. In any case, the Pandora 2 will probably have a different casing so that could be enlarged slightly if necessary.