Our New Machine, Pandora

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cappuchok

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Turnip said:
cappuchok said:
As for control layouts, the start/select buttons could be made to double as the 5th/6th button on a Genesis/Arcade controller. This would give ample room for comfortable emulation of SNES and PSX-like consoles with four buttons on the right, as well as for Genesis and arcades (including NeoGeo) which typically had 6 buttons.

My own personal choice when I was considering a gamepad for emulation (for which I wanted an extended SNES/PSX layout to cope with 6-button Genesis and NeoGeo) is the Saitek P990. Remove the analogs and you have a very versatile layout combining most of the existing digital control pad schemes from the 80's - 90's.



I have one of the P880 ones of those which has the same button layaout and it works well for N64 emulation but whats this madness about removing the anolog sticks??

I was thinking mainly about the digital controls layout here, I don't see the new handheld having two analog sticks/nubs anyway and I certainly can't see them being placed as comfortably as on the PSX layout used on the P990. Anyway, the Saitek layout certainly suits every emulator I could wish for; the main reason I switched my much loved Firestorm Dual Analog (which has the traditional PSX layout with four buttons on the right) for this was the brilliant placement of the start/select buttons which made NeoGeo/Genesis/N64 emulation so much more comfortable. I'd recommend this controller in an instant to anyone needing a comfortable controller that works well across most of the emulation spectrum (as extra controllers in an arcade cabinet, for example).

Of course, that's why I'd also love for the new handheld to use a similar layout. 6 buttons on the right in a NeoGeo/Genesis-like layout really makes a big difference for those emulators, as well as enabling both the C-buttons and the A and B button to be placed correctly for comfortable N64 controls (for those who want that, I really don't care, but for MAME and NeoGeo/Genesis this really improves the experience).
 
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Javacat

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cappuchok said:
Anyway, the Saitek layout certainly suits every emulator I could wish for; the main reason I switched my much loved Firestorm Dual Analog (which has the traditional PSX layout with four buttons on the right) for this was the brilliant placement of the start/select buttons which made NeoGeo/Genesis/N64 emulation so much more comfortable. I'd recommend this controller in an instant to anyone needing a comfortable controller that works well across most of the emulation spectrum (as extra controllers in an arcade cabinet, for example).

Of course, that's why I'd also love for the new handheld to use a similar layout. 6 buttons on the right in a NeoGeo/Genesis-like layout really makes a big difference for those emulators, as well as enabling both the C-buttons and the A and B button to be placed correctly for comfortable N64 controls (for those who want that, I really don't care, but for MAME and NeoGeo/Genesis this really improves the experience).
He speaks truths!!!

6 buttons in 2 rows is certainly more arcade like than just the standard 4 buttons, although it could add on an extra 1cm to the width of the console.
 
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Billy Lee

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Then add two shoulder buttons and you've got the perfect Sega Saturn layout! Reckon there's any chance of there being a Saturn emulator or would that be harder than an N64 emulator?
 

cappuchok

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Billy Lee said:
Then add two shoulder buttons and you've got the perfect Sega Saturn layout! Reckon there's any chance of there being a Saturn emulator or would that be harder than an N64 emulator?
Can't vouch for the viability of Saturn emulation, but two pairs of shoulder buttons is needed anyway for PSX which we do know with reasonable certainty will be possible to emulate at full speed on the new device. :)
 
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Vimacs

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I don't think that two shoulder buttons are a good idea, it would make the unit to thick or the buttons would be to small.

hmmmm, actually... you could have "half dpads" as shoulder buttons, i wonder how well that would work.
 

Javacat

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That might feel a bit cheap, but it could work if they were like the volume button on the GP2X, where you push one side in to do one thing, and another to do something else. For PSX emulation you could then push them both in at once to simulate a both shoulder buttons being pressed at once and homebrew could use that as an additional input (essentially meaning that each shoulder button acts as three inputs).

Edit: This could also work quite well for simulating the analogue shoulder buttons on the GBA. (I'm sure they were analog on the original GBA, but I can't for the life of me find any mention of them on google..)
 

cappuchok

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Javacat said:
That might feel a bit cheap, but it could work if they were like the volume button on the GP2X, where you push one side in to do one thing, and another to do something else. For PSX emulation you could then push them both in at once to simulate a both shoulder buttons being pressed at once and homebrew could use that as an additional input (essentially meaning that each shoulder button acts as three inputs).
Could work - I like the idea. Would take some practice to master, possibly, but it would be a very space efficient solution (considering all the other stuff that needs to be placed on the edges of the device). The manufacturer would just need to ensure, though, that the force required to press the button on either side isn't too small or it might be too easy to "misfire".
 
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Billy Lee

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Eh? So we're not having shoulder buttons now? Practically every console since the SNES has had shoulder buttons. What's the problem?
 

Squidge

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Billy Lee said:
Eh? So we're not having shoulder buttons now? Practically every console since the SNES has had shoulder buttons. What's the problem?
When was the last time you spotted a PDA with shoulder buttons?
 
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cappuchok

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X-Code said:
And with a Dpad, analog stick, and a load of gaming oriented buttons? :lol:

It must have some form of shoulder buttons... if not triggers, at least buttons... Really.
Isn't that exactly what we're talking about here: how to make twin shoulder buttons (to enable a comfortable PSX control scheme) without making the device too thick? To that end, the same technique used to make the GP2X' volume button could be employed to make one shoulder trigger on each side that acts as two buttons (one trigger on either end of the actual button), like a seesaw. Or am I missing something?
 
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Eolair

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You could always add gp32 style tits :D

tits2mh9.jpg


It would also make the unit more comfortable to hold ;)
 

jimid2

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Billy Lee said:
Then add two shoulder buttons and you've got the perfect Sega Saturn layout! Reckon there's any chance of there being a Saturn emulator or would that be harder than an N64 emulator?
The Saturn is very complex, and for a long time it was considered nearly impossible to emulate. There have been some successes lately, but the only decent PC-based Saturn emu developed to date requires a Pentium IV system (PIII won't cut it), and a Core 2 Duo E6300 or better is recommended for full speed, so we're a long way from porting that to a handheld...
 
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Yrx

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jimid2 said:
Billy Lee said:
Then add two shoulder buttons and you've got the perfect Sega Saturn layout! Reckon there's any chance of there being a Saturn emulator or would that be harder than an N64 emulator?
The Saturn is very complex, and for a long time it was considered nearly impossible to emulate. There have been some successes lately, but the only decent PC-based Saturn emu developed to date requires a Pentium IV system (PIII won't cut it), and a Core 2 Duo E6300 or better is recommended for full speed, so we're a long way from porting that to a handheld...

Yeah, I haven't been able to get Saturn working for me at all. First there's tha fact that they need a fast system, and then the emulators themself are considerably less than user friendly.

And what's this about a lack of shoulder buttons? I would think those would be somewhat of a priority... But then again, how often does anyone here actually use them in-game? PSX would be the main reason.
 
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Tobriand

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Shoulder-button-wise, 2 is plenty, imo. It worked for the gp32 and it worked for the 2x. Whilst 4 could be useful from a PSX emulation point of view, it'd boost the thickness of the console significantly, I imagine, which wouldn't be so great.

On the other hand, there is some realestate all along the back of the console for another two, if you were to design it right, say, aiming to be pressed with the third finger rather than the first. Or there's always the "volume-button" solution, which could be kinda elegant if done right...

Oh, and on a side note, I'm now looking forward to this machine even more, on account of my 2x seems to have gone walkies, and I'm not sure I'll find it :(. Fingers crossed, but it doesn't seem very likely... Which means, seeing as I won't be able to afford a new 2x and this, that I'm going to be without a cutting edge machine for a bit :(. Oh well...

edit: typos...
 

Exophase

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I've played lots of PS1 games on emulators, mostly using controllers that don't have back L/R buttons. They just aren't used that much in most games. Not enough to warrant them being there and not as face buttons. I think that the idea was to improve the finger to button ratio (which shoulder buttons already do by a lot) but in practice it's not like you want to push both of them at the same time. At least that isn't how games are really designed.

Two shoulder buttons is pretty much a must though, if people see a device that otherwise has gaming controls they're going to immediately wonder "why aren't there any shoulder buttons?")
 
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