Our New Machine, Pandora

[zaffercharles]

Ah, i don't like these Hybrids.
Handhelds are for gaming, mp3-players are for music and PDAs are for PDA stuff.
I don't like to carry my handheld to listen to music nor would i like to take my handheld to do some serious stuff like calendar, dates, notes, etc.
Thats why i never used internet on my PSP. Why should i use internet on such a device? Thats what a PC/Laptop is made for. The PSP would mean minor capabilities or a compromise.
What can top the comfort of a (i don't wanna start a mp3-player war) mp3-player? The PSP? The NDS? The new machine? I don't think so. a tiny device just for listening music is already perfect. I don't need a bigger, heavier and slower (booting) device for it.
If you want to use a handheld for other stuff like gaming, do it. But please don't design a gaming machine for beeing a second choice buisiness PDA or a second choice mp3-player.

I disagree. Stick everything in one and I'll buy one. There is, again, NOTHING on the market that can emulate old systems well with GOOD CONTROLS, play mp3/AVI, remind you of appointments etc. Make this the gap filler at a reasonable price and it will succeed. Forget what has came before and failed, it has all been flawed.

 

[GP2X_Coder]

I don't know it this has been asked yet but will the new system have an updated version of SDL so functions like SDL_LoadMUS_RW will be incorporated also will OpenGL and SDL libs be preloaded onto the system kinda like the GP2X has sdl loaded on the nand?


(Will there be an official SDK???)
Thanks.

 

[DaveC]

Since it will almost be impossible to please everyone maybe it should be designed so that modular "sleeves" could be attached. I want good 2D game controls for vertical MAME and SNES, the other guy wants d-pad and analog for N64, the other guy wants dual analog, and yet another track-balls and mouse sticks. There is no way that could all be added. So how about a basic all purpose set-up that can be added to? Below is just a concept (I stole the original console design from Eolair, hope you don't mind ) , obviously it can be tweaked to be better. Just make the system with the ability to be expanded even if such expansions are not immediatly available. Accessories can be sold later. Yes it gets a bit bigger but you can't have everything perfect The keyboard can't be extended with these options on but you don't need a keyboard for these games anyway.

 

[sold]

I think a modular approach would be to difficult to implement and would also raise the price of the unit.

These days people want a combination of looks and functionality in electronics devices.
Plus it would be a pain in the ass having to mess around ordering individual add ons as they are available. The thing should ideally work straight out of the box on the hardware side of things.

No offense meant DaveC, but i think the modular approach for a handheld makes it look like some kind of Frankenstein device that some people would shy away from because it makes all the extra functions/features the modules would add look like an afterthought.

EDIT: I forgot to add that some of the mock-ups do look kinda cool

 

[Turnip]

 

[TyBO!]

Turnip: 6 buttons on both side of the device makes it look ridiculously cluttered (no offense).

 

[Turnip]

Turnip: 6 buttons on both side of the device makes it look ridiculously cluttered (no offense).

I thaught that but N64 emulation could really use them and mame, MD and saturn emulation would benefit too. Do you think making the buttons smaller, about the size of the DS ones would solve that?

 

[lubidog]

I think the fact that Exophase, ZZottd, Squidge etc are all excited and positive about this new machine should outweigh any fears we all have! Our coding Gods want to get their grubby mits on it and give us emus and homebrew that we though impossible before! So hurrah!

Also, modular controls seem a bit too much!

And I love hybrid devices. I was going through airport security the other day and they stopped me to search me. They said the sheer amount of electronic devices meant they couldn't scan my bag properly!!! Give me one device, a couple of spare batteries and I'm happy!!!

 

[Squidge]

Turnip: I think a better idea would be to have 4 buttons grouped together, and then have the other 2 seperated (possibly in there own group of 2)

 

[cappuchok]

Shoulder-button-wise, 2 is plenty, imo. It worked for the gp32 and it worked for the 2x. Whilst 4 could be useful from a PSX emulation point of view, it'd boost the thickness of the console significantly, I imagine, which wouldn't be so great.

On the other hand, there is some realestate all along the back of the console for another two, if you were to design it right, say, aiming to be pressed with the third finger rather than the first. Or there's always the "volume-button" solution, which could be kinda elegant if done right...

There's nothing that says that twin shoulder buttons would have to be arranged like on a real PSX controller (one beneath the other). They could just as well be placed side by side, either by splitting the "existing" shoulder button into two separate buttons, or by using the "GP2X volume button" approach. The important thing is having two triggers on each shoulder, which is needed if PSX emulation is to be comfortable on this device. I'm not saying PSX emulation should be a priority (it obviously will be anyway) and I myself am much more interested in seeing proper emulation of those older consoles that are not yet emulated at full speed on the GP2X, like the C64, SNES and Amiga. But as far as newer-generation machines go, I'd personally have much more use for a PSX emulator than for an N64 emulator.

As for the 6 trigger button layout on the right, this would be good for MAME, NeoGeo, MD, Saturn and N64 emulation (if those last two are even possible). Saitek made the last two buttons slightly smaller than the "SNES/PSX/C-buttons group", perhaps that's also a solution as it sets the last two buttons slightly apart from the more commonly used 4 button layout?

 

[Deed]

You could always add gp32 style tits

It would also make the unit more comfortable to hold

My 2 cents : this design is excellent. Not only it would allow for 4 shoulder buttons instead of 2 (which would be useful anyway and not only for psx emulation), it would allow better grip, and if well designed you could even put 1 set of 2 AAs in each bump, meaning : good battery life, and reduced costs (no lithium ion battery).
All in all, I find this design very appealing. The others designs I've seen here really have two much buttons on the front, it looks silly, and it wouldn't be very usable (while shoulder buttons are perfect for any usage is device is well designed and not too small)

 

[fightingdreamer88]

I'm thinking a mini-keyboard would be awesome. Would make games like Hugo's House of Horrors and Ultima I-VI playable PROPERLY, not to mention open the door for all manner of additional PC functions (which the scene could code itself whenever it needs something). Make it highly multifunctional and you'll sell tons of 'em. Wireless net gaming would obviously massively boost its appeal too.

 

[X-Code]

I definitely like the tits idea Eolair

I've taken a couple of pics of old controllers, forgive the dust and bad quality :lol:

http://www.bitmaniacs.com/gamepads/

Button layouts and shapes should be considered if we want to keep the machine as small as possible.

 

[Turnip]

3 different layouts:

 

[X-Code]

That second image looks about right, the others seem to have the buttons at uncomfortable positions

How about something like this?

( It would need straightening a little, but at least it keeps the buttons away from the edge of the machine and within reach of the thumb )

 

[Turnip]

That second image looks about right, the others seem to have the buttons at uncomfortable positions

How about something like this?

( It would need straightening a little, but at least it keeps the buttons away from the edge of the machine and within reach of the thumb )

Yeah, looking at those pics again the groups could do with moving away from the edge. Having the 2 smaller buttons on the inside wouldent be ideal for N64 but it would work.

If we were going to have 4 shoulder buttons it could probably manage with just the group of 4, but with this design that would mean a total of 8 shoulder buttons...

 

[God Ginrai]

3 different layouts:

Your 6-button layouts are making your design look better and better, but I agree with X-Code, the smaller buttons should be on the bottom left of the big four instead of the top right, like in his image here:

That second image looks about right, the others seem to have the buttons at uncomfortable positions

How about something like this?

( It would need straightening a little, but at least it keeps the buttons away from the edge of the machine and within reach of the thumb )

But you might want to straighten those 2 buttons out so that they flow into the 4 large buttons.

Unless of course, the all small button design looks nice, too.

EDIT: I just realized, what happened to your Start and Select buttons? Or are those things that look like the speakers them? If so, where's the speakers?

-God Ginrai

 

[Turnip]

3 different layouts:

Your 6-button layouts are making your design look better and better, but I agree with X-Code, the smaller buttons should be on the bottom left of the big four instead of the top right, like in his image here:

That second image looks about right, the others seem to have the buttons at uncomfortable positions

How about something like this?

( It would need straightening a little, but at least it keeps the buttons away from the edge of the machine and within reach of the thumb )

But you might want to straighten those 2 buttons out so that they flow into the 4 large buttons.

Unless of course, the all small button design looks nice, too.

EDIT: I just realized, what happened to your Start and Select buttons? Or are those things that look like the speakers them? If so, where's the speakers?

-God Ginrai


Those are the speakers. I was wondering if we really need dedicated start and select buttons? In emu's and stuff that needs them it would be simple enough to set them to some of the otherwise un-used buttons.

 

[Billy Lee]

Can we have it play hi-def videos via the (HD)TV-Out?

 

[cappuchok]

That second image looks about right, the others seem to have the buttons at uncomfortable positions

How about something like this?

( It would need straightening a little, but at least it keeps the buttons away from the edge of the machine and within reach of the thumb )

Seconded.

You could always add gp32 style tits

It would also make the unit more comfortable to hold

My 2 cents : this design is excellent. Not only it would allow for 4 shoulder buttons instead of 2 (which would be useful anyway and not only for psx emulation), it would allow better grip, and if well designed you could even put 1 set of 2 AAs in each bump, meaning : good battery life, and reduced costs (no lithium ion battery).
All in all, I find this design very appealing. The others designs I've seen here really have two much buttons on the front, it looks silly, and it wouldn't be very usable (while shoulder buttons are perfect for any usage is device is well designed and not too small)

I think it's already been made fairly clear that in order to have good battery life with the modern chips (meaning i.MX31 or OMAP3430) a lithium ion battery is more or less required. Nevertheless the "GP32 tits" design would make the grip more comfortable and the shoulder buttons would be easier to use without pressing the wrong button by mistake (which could happen easily with the "volume button" design if not implemented properly). My two cents would be that we still need 6 buttons on the front right, though, but two of them (the smaller ones on X-Code's image) can double as the Start/Select buttons like on the Saitek P880/990 controllers.
Still, compared to a PSX layout this would still be short of one analog nub and one stick-click (presuming for a moment that the proposed analog nub will also have a button click function like the current GP2X stick). I can live without those (double analogs/stick-clicks) but I'll go with what Craigix and the team decides.