Nub As Mouse.

[Tyler Durden]

I was watching the recent videos by EvilDragon covering basic OS info and I wondered if it would be possible to use the left nub to move the cursor. It'd be very similar to the mouse nubs on laptops. If you didn't always want to pull out the stylus I think this would be useful.

 

[mali]

It's being worked on

Edit:

[...]

It's nice to see that you can also use the d-pad to control the gui with. How about the analog stick? There were talk about, that you'll be able to control the arrow with the anolog stick.

Yes, that will be possible - but it's not implemented yet

 

[bzar]

Yes it is. It's on the to-do list, but hasn't been implemented yet.

(this has been asked a few times, search is your friend)

 

[Tyler Durden]

Thank you for the quick reply,
Sorry for posting on a topic already covered. Although there has been a long wait, a consequence is that ample time has been given for ideas like this to be thought out and implemented.

 

[Alec]

I wonder, are the nubs recognized as joysticks (as in /dev/input/jsX)?

 

[krosfyah]

I really hope this gets implemented quickly as it's probably going to dictate how much I use the Pandora for browsing and general desktop stuff. The weighting of the pointer is the critical part. I think they did a reasonable job on the PSP but hopefully it will be much better than that.

 

[second exodous]

Yeah, I think I'll be doing more 'desktop' stuff on my Pandora so I'm excited about using the nub as a mouse. I've never liked touch screens much, the main reason I haven't bought a iPhone even though I use AT&T.

 

[pshunter]

As I understand using the nub as a mouse could work like the ones on some laptops i.e. the farther the nub is pushed, the quicker the pointer moves in that direction.
But would it be possible to use it as an absolute position ? It would work if the nub has enough travel and precision to cover all the screen, when the nub is at a rest position the mouse pointer would be in the center of the screen.

 

[mali]

I think, making it act like a trackpoint would be the easiest and most intuitive way. If you configure it with a center reset, you would have a hard time clicking something when in the bus for example and everytime you release the nub you have to start all over again.

 

[darien]

After using the analog stick (attached to wireless keyboard) on the HTPC in my home theatre room, I am personally planning to spend more time using the stylus for extended mouse use. Finger for everything else. The analog stick controlled mouse is a nice feature but it's not ideal because of the pressure sensitivity and the return state of the nub causing you to over/undershoot your target. It's probably more of an issue for me because I view files in list-detail mode in windows, rather than as icons. I might have said this all before.

 

[second exodous]

I think on a smaller screen in your hands it will work better than a TV across the room. The nub on the Think, ah crap, the IBM notebooks, forgot what they're called. Anyway, the nubs on those worked great on a notebook. Most people that had one used that and disabled the trackpad.

 

[krosfyah]

The return shouldn't cause any movement otherwise it won't work very well.

 

[darien]

I think on a smaller screen in your hands it will work better than a TV across the room. The nub on the Think, ah crap, the IBM notebooks, forgot what they're called. Anyway, the nubs on those worked great on a notebook. Most people that had one used that and disabled the trackpad.

It's a 100inch projection screen and I sit about 15-20ft away. I do actually think the laptop nubs work better though, perhaps because they don't slide back rather they're incredibly resistant to bending or being moved at all and don't register the return movement or bounce back like the analog stick does. I'm not saying the analog mouse will be bad or anything, I'm just predicting it won't be as efficient.

 

[notaz]

Yes it is. It's on the to-do list, but hasn't been implemented yet.

Actually it *is* implemented but needs some tweaking.

 

[bzar]

Yes it is. It's on the to-do list, but hasn't been implemented yet.

Actually it *is* implemented but needs some tweaking.

Oh, ok. I gladly stand corrected

 

[Vlynndar]

I think on a smaller screen in your hands it will work better than a TV across the room. The nub on the Think, ah crap, the IBM notebooks, forgot what they're called. Anyway, the nubs on those worked great on a notebook. Most people that had one used that and disabled the trackpad.

It's a 100inch projection screen and I sit about 15-20ft away. I do actually think the laptop nubs work better though, perhaps because they don't slide back rather they're incredibly resistant to bending or being moved at all and don't register the return movement or bounce back like the analog stick does. I'm not saying the analog mouse will be bad or anything, I'm just predicting it won't be as efficient.

According to my math (what can I say, I was bored), if you normally sit between 15 and 20 feet away from a 100 inch screen (assuming for simplicity that it has the same aspect ratio of the Pandora) you would have to hold the screen of the Pandora between about 7[sup]3/4[/sup] and 10[sup]1/3[/sup] inch away.
Which seems a little close but not unreasonable.

As I said, I was bored. :lol:

 

[second exodous]

I think on a smaller screen in your hands it will work better than a TV across the room. The nub on the Think, ah crap, the IBM notebooks, forgot what they're called. Anyway, the nubs on those worked great on a notebook. Most people that had one used that and disabled the trackpad.

It's a 100inch projection screen and I sit about 15-20ft away. I do actually think the laptop nubs work better though, perhaps because they don't slide back rather they're incredibly resistant to bending or being moved at all and don't register the return movement or bounce back like the analog stick does. I'm not saying the analog mouse will be bad or anything, I'm just predicting it won't be as efficient.

Well, yes, touching the screen is kinda like cutting the 'middle man' out of manipulating on the screen when compared to the nub. Logically it will be more efficient to use the stylus but when using the keyboard you loose more efficiency when you have to release one hand from the typing positing to manipulate the desktop.

On one of those IBM notebooks with the nub you notice that over time that if it is used you don't move your hand away from the typing position to move it to the trackpad position or even farther away to grab a mouse. Only after using the IBM nub for an hour I noticed I was as efficient with it as I ever was with a track-pad. Now touch screen compared to nub is a different story but I still think that if you don't have to leave the typing position to manipulate the screen I still think you'll come out on top with the nub. Also, you're holding the device, every large hand movement will move the device taking away more efficiency, hand movement affects efficiency on a device you hold in your hands much more than a device that is resting on a sold surface.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can be more accurate with a stylus/finger but not as efficient because you need to release your device, manipulate, then return hand to position. When not using the keyboard then you'll win with the stylus though.

Think of DS games, do you like games that exclusively use either right hand (left if your a lefty) in one mode: manipulating the stylus or the buttons, or do you like games that have you switch between the buttons and the stylus with the right hand. Switching back and fourth drives me crazy.

 

[darien]

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can be more accurate with a stylus/finger but not as efficient because you need to release your device, manipulate, then return hand to position. When not using the keyboard then you'll win with the stylus though.

Think of DS games, do you like games that exclusively use either right hand (left if your a lefty) in one mode: manipulating the stylus or the buttons, or do you like games that have you switch between the buttons and the stylus with the right hand. Switching back and fourth drives me crazy.

That's a good point, I rarely use the keyboard on my HTPC at the same time and it's big enough to sit on my lap. Thumbing will definitely give you a better grip with your fingers free to grasp the back in support. I guess I was also speaking strictly of the analog stick's accuracy. Not sure what use would require simultaneous keyboarding and mousing save for traditional FPS gameplay, but then again on my DS, when playing Picross, I use the DPAD and touchscreen with stylus at the same time but keyboarding would definitely require more releasing than the dpad. It's like, what would hold it up, right? Anyhow, I hope developers will be thinking through these user experience factors when developing apps as thoroughly as we are. :lol:

 

[kagato]

But would it be possible to use it as an absolute position ? It would work if the nub has enough travel and precision to cover all the screen, when the nub is at a rest position the mouse pointer would be in the center of the screen.

Sorry, no way. Even if the nubs had enough sensitivity to represent every pixel on the screen (ie, at least ±400), and no dead zone in the centre, there's still only 2mm of travel; trying to pinpoint anywhere on the screen would be a nightmare.

 

[BaDToaD]

I agree with second exodous that using a nub on a laptop becomes second nature in very little time and is surprisingly fast and accurate. I also believe it will help your gaming skills to be using the nub/s for OS use too.