Nub-Settings Video

[porg]

You're all forgetting one thing: This is a multitasking OS. As soon as one program changes the mapping, it will be changed for ALL programs. Or the programs constantly switch around, which is even worse.

@EvilDragon and other PandoraOS devs,
I have a suggestion how to realize increased user configurability and at the same time avoid a mess within the multitasking system, as you fear it!

Functional scheme as is (plus the suggestion):

1 Hardware -> 2 OS/driver -> (3 VirtualControllerSwitch) -> 4 final app receives the passthrough/manipulated controller event.

Ad 3: The problem can be solved here, with a VirtualControllerSwitch. Either such a software already exists on GNU/Linux or else it could be developed.

Ad 2+3: In the PandoraOS 2+3 could be easily melted, as it is a custom OS, but nevertheless I propose to keep them separated so that:

• alternative VirtualControllerSwitches can be used if desired,
• the (to be integrated/developed) default VirtualControllerSwitch could possibly also be utilized if people use the Pandora with other OSes, such as Android, Ubuntu, of course within the given boundaries.

Ad 3: We don't have to reinvent the wheel. The concept is very well implemented by: ControllerMate
I bought this shareware for my Mac to realize a sort of "game emulation center" user mode on my Mac, where I can control EVERYTHING relevant ENTIRELY with my wireless game controller!

• Browse and launch games (in the launcher EmuLaunch ).
• Quit games (different keystrokes in the different apps hence a global mapping would fail) and switch back to the launcher.
• Emulator general game control: custom button mapping if emulator forces you to button setup you don't like, map game controller buttons to key(stroke)s if it can't handle game controllers, assisting (some would rather call it 'cheating' *LOL*) functions such as button combinations/sequences, permanent fire trigger, etc.
• Emulator specific features such as: game status freeze, machine reset, etc.
• Everything else you need (as you can trigger commandline/scripts)

ControllerMate has a pretty clever approach, which allows almost every configuration while only affecting the apps you want! You can read the concept in detail at the website, for those with limited reading time, I try a short summary here (my terminology may vary):

• The root layer contains groups(s). The root layer can be switched off without rebooting, then all signals are simply passed through, may be necessary for troubleshooting.
• A group contains page(s). Group(s) can be switched on/off as desired.
• Page(s) contain the hardware controllers' (internal keyboard, wired controller, wireless controller, etc) features (buttons, nubs, ...) as you like, either you place them partially or all of them!
• A trigger event goes through signal processing (logic, math, value filter, repeater, delayer, etc) into an output.
• An output can be a single/multiple/sequence of buttons/keys or triggering a script, possibly with the value as an argument.

Groups can be active:

• Always / If app "Xxx*" is running / If app "Xxx*" is not running
• You can list multiple apps, and again define that the rule only applies if app "Xxx*" runs in the foreground / background / however.

Summary of the cons: Has to continuously run, hence consumes some system resources, but I guess this can be made quite efficient.

Summary of the pros: By this you can create both global controller-manipulations, which are expected to have the intended effect in the entire OS and all apps, and at the same time app-specific controller-manipulations, avoiding unintended effects for other apps! And the handy thing is that the apps can be defined in/exclusive, and wether they run in front/back/anyhow. Very flexible, solving almost every conceivable controller issues and demands! (Solved 100% of my issues!)

 

[SNESFAN]

Thanks ED, I guess I was confused on how it all works, and I'm sure alot will change after it comes out as far as people's preferred controls and such.

Nothing is set in stone, and everything can be changed to one's liking at any given time.

 

[Patrick R Ludvigsen]

This looks good, I didn't want to have worn-out shoulder buttons.

It kind of reminds me of the mouse-stick thing that was on my old laptop, which I strongly preferred to touch-pad

 

[Hansi]

I used joytokey and a xbox 360 controller during my "basic military service" (babelfish translated) time since we had mor pcs/laptops then mice.

I mapped it different for the games we where playing but mostly had it configured like that:
- the left stick as a fast mouse
- the right one as a slower one
(you are just to inacurate with an input that moves the cursor on a decent speed.
Don't know if that won't be necessary with the pandora because of the lower size of the display and thus larger buttons)
- left shoulder button as control
- left trigger as shift
- right trigger and shoulderbutton as left and right mouse cursors
- abxy as 1234 (combined with control good for strategy games to group units)
- back and start as enter and escape
- dpad as arrows
- right stick pressed to switch the mapping

While using joytokey I also noticed the multiple input you noticed which didn't affect the games while playing,
but when you wanted to setup the input in the options of the game:
The real gamepad input was recognized first and then the game mapped the function to the gamepad,
instead of the virtual input which made some trouble at times
(when I didn't have a mouse but wanted the function to be mapped to the virtual mouse instead of the joystick).

 

[aliking]

This has all got me thinking about what my preferred usage might be, and I wondered; can the modifier keys be used to modify:

• the nubs
• screen drag
• screenclicks
• dpad
• action buttons
• triggers

i.e. can Fn+Nub Up be any different from Nub Up? Is a right-click possible using the stylus?

I think these are likely to be either hardware or driver related, so they would not be 'fixable' in software.

 

[Raz]

Awesome... This is what I wanted to see

Btw, are the nubs pushable?

 

[Prometheus]

No, they aren't.

 

[Raz]

Can we configure the gaming controls:

Left Nub - Mouse
D-Pad - Page Up, Page Down
L = Left Click
R = Right Click
Right Nub - Scroll
Select and Start already have Ctrl and Alt

Then I would have Del, Shift, Enter, Tab, Home, End, Esc, Fn etc for whatevers left on the D-Pad, ABXY and the Pandora button.

Then again... This might interfere with games. But I suppose the Nubs would do that too so there must be a solution.

 

[drenyx]

It's utterly configurable anyway, right? I will set it like

d-pad      left nub              right nub            face buttons       L and R buttons
--------   ---------------       ------------------   -----------------  -----------------
'^' pgUp   should definitely     could be used for    A/B: LMB/RMB       Left and right  
'v' pgDn   move the mouse        panning around the   X: browser-back    mouse button
'<' home   since I am used to    page                 Y: browser-next
'>' end    analogue on the left

4000 preorders so I figure 3998 opinions roughly, until you add the possible 2nd batchers. I don't care what the default is, but I'd like to be able to configure mine something such as:

L-shoulder: R-shift                              R-shoulder: R-ctrl 

d-pad    d-pad + ctrl   left nub       right nub   face buttons     
------   ------------   ------------   ---------   -----------------
^ up     ^+ctrl pgUp    mouse cursor   scrolling         X: double left click
v down   v+ctrl pgDn    movement       & panning   Y: left click A: right click
< left   <+ctrl home                   on page           B: middle click
> right  >+ctrl end

not so worried about browser specific functions as mentioned since forward/back in most browsers works by default with Alt-left or Alt-right (cursor keys). If the control-up is not possible (easily in software) then possibly X+up (X becoming modifier instead of double-click). I won't suggest this is the best for all but I would love something like this for myself.

Edit: I also like the idea of "profiles" where I could have it setup this way for desktop/app use and normal joystick mode for games without reconfiguring nubs individually, if this part wasn't already covered.

 

[kagato]

I'm a little confused by the nub-mapping situation.
I understand that the nubs have to be set to one mode at a time, and that mode can be reconfigured on the fly.
However:

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

This implies that it's not practical to set a global default mapping from buttons/keys to mouse clicks.

ED also says (regarding a mapping suggestion):

Then you can't scroll left and right, which you can also do with the right nub.

So the right nub can also be set to scroll mode (which is cool).

However -- if you set it up with left-nub as mouse pointer and right-nub as scroll... but you can't easily map left-click or right-click to buttons... how are you supposed to use the left-nub mouse? You can move the pointer around, but there's nothing mapped as clicks now!

 

[multiplex]

I'm a little confused by the nub-mapping situation.
I understand that the nubs have to be set to one mode at a time, and that mode can be reconfigured on the fly.
However:

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

This implies that it's not practical to set a global default mapping from buttons/keys to mouse clicks.

Well, it sounds like it's only a problem in certain games. If the joystick-click method doesn't work out for me, I'll just set up a shortcut to switch between mouse button and key mappings.

 

[darkborn]

I have to accentuate here that we should respect logic (and logic procedure) here as a first.
Most people are right-handed (70% to 90% according to wiki), so I will continue in that fashion.
However, nub controls should be easily configurable for opposite (left-handedness); moreover, some sort of "positive discrimination" in this way is THE ultimate for this project.
1. Our hands are not equals, (same as our brain hemispheres aren't) so I'll quote wiki here: (majority) "has greater coordination and dexterity in right hand".
2. Ergo, right nub should be dedicated for more precise motoric tasks by default (Of course, it should be easy switchable for opposite hand, or some other configuration).
Speaking of mouse mimic, moving mouse around is definitely more sophisticated task then double-click or (digital) move up/down, click or move left/right.
3. (Design of) Communication Interface should serve simple purpose: better usability (hmm "Capability" ). I prefer here to try to "enslave" only one hand for "pure navigation". Or as close as this could be done.
4. There are two main ways of using Pandora: 1. holding in hand(s), 2. using Pandora laying at some flat background, as a "regular notebook".
I'll concentrate on first, because it should be common way to use it, and beside, Pandora's main distinction should be "Ultra Portability (...)".
Most desirable way of "doing navigation" (mimic mouse) should be to use that hand which is already "enslaved" (and nothing more, only than one hand).
It means that we should use only that one (already "enslaved") hand, to mimic mouse gestures/clicks and at the same time to hold device so that we have other hand free for other tasks.
As we are using classic mobile phone for sending SMS.
Other hand should be reserved for addition "browsing" etc tasks, such as: scroll up/down or auto-scroll, scroll left/right, zoom in/out, back forward pages/tasks/windows, copy/paste etc.
Imho, it is possible for most tasks: moving mouse with nub (using thumb), and doing "left" click/doubleclick with trigger button (by using index finger). Other parts of hand (fingers) are reserved for holding the gadget. And second (right) mouse button? Anywhere, use nose instead finger (kidding).
This is not a real handicap: most tasks could be done using only one mouse button, and don't forget that Apple convinced their users for decades that they are too stupid to use 2nd mouse button!
However, we should consider here persons with a real disability.
For example, how do you expect of Craig to read his mail, holding Pandora in one hand when he has to hold vodka in the other (on top of the roof of his own house, probably)? :rolleyes:

Modding/next generations
It should be considered to put 2 buttons at trigger place (instead only one). And it should be done on both triggers (left, right), mostly because of possible left-handedness.
At least, GBA, PSP etc did not put ultimate standard, nor Pandora should depend only at abandoned emulated (old) standards.

This way we could emulate left&right mouse buttons by using only one finger, and moving mouse & holding Panda at same time in one hand. And for serious (read: gaming)
purposes: buttons are never enough.
There are more thing that could be modded/done at some v1.x version of Pandora, but I don't want to feed Apple designers stealers.
Just as a hint: where do you put your Bluetooth earphone when it's not in use?

As I studied that stuff for years (officially, at School of Design), I have to say: ergonomics is still one of the most underestimated science/discipline today.
Top seller gadgets are not top because of their usefulness, they are "top" mostly because they are - pretty.
FEW EXAMPLES.
Apple made Mac Classic which is now at MoMa (New York Museum of Modern Art), because of "great design". Lets see.
It had monochrome display (!), floppy drive had not eject button (!!), keyboard had no arrow keys (!!!) or numeric keypad (!!!!). And mouse had only single button.
BTW WindowsIconsMenusPointer GUI concept, including mouse etc was stolen from Xerox Alto at PARC.
(As you probably know, at same time, all what failed here, Amiga, Atari ST and so on - had as de facto standard). Pure art.
Beside ergonomics: (wiki quote) "Steve Jobs insisted that the Macintosh ship without a fan, a marketing (not engineering) decision" ... "This was the source of many common — and very expensive — component failures in the first four Macintosh models" ... "The persistent overheating, and the design of the floppy disk drive, led to the nickname "The beige toaster"." OMFG ROFL State of the art!
Mac was success story. On the other side, NeXT / G4 Cube failed at market, even with REAL cool&quiet superior design... but Mac Mini (also called HDD fryer) made success... and so on.
iPad... another one ergonomicless product for MoMa.

Sorry for my Broken Engrish, I'm not in a mood right now... just neglect it & think about facts.

 

[droneb]

+1 4 d above

 

[porg]

Considering the Pandora hardware user interface elements' design and configuration there were 2 elaborated posts
from @darkborn and me, @porg, which yet sadly did not retrieve any feedback...
Would be encouraging! Thanks!