Nub-Settings Video

[Pleng]

The dpad isn't fully used, you can make the left and right on the Dpad as left and right click mouse buttons, that would make more sense...

Huh? Isn't the Dpad reserved for cursor keys? What have I missed?!

 

[Emnasut]

How about mapping "down" on the right nub to control the sensitivity of the left nub? In the video it looked like it was a bit annoying from time to time to get the cursor to exactly the position you want. While holding down the right nub we could decrease the speed of the cursor for precise positioning.

 

[droneb]

OMG, such a weird set of controls.

i would go for:

left nub :wasd or arrow buttons;
right nub:mouse;
Lbtn: left click;
Rbton:Right click;
dpad: Home PgUp PdDwn End;
abxy: other uses.

 

[Caine]

How odd...are keyboard discussions allowed these days?

D-pad: left,up,right,down
Left-nub: mouse

Fn+Enter -> Toggle scroll Lock

Scroll Lock on:
Right-nub: Left, Middle, Right, Double (Left) mouse buttons
abxy: Home, PgUp, End, PgDwn

Scroll Lock off:
Right-nub: Mouse wheels (horz+vert)
abxy: Left, Middle, Right, Double mouse buttons

 

[kingoddball]

I like. I want.

 

[Loon]

Well, this thread just goes to show there are no right answers as far as control layout / user interface matters are concerned. Only that everyone else is wrong!

Our best hopes are that the device is easily configurable.

For what it is worth, this would be my preferred method of mouse input :

Left Nub : Scrolling horizontal and vertical - This will be useful with a low res device
Right Nub : Move mouse - I'm right handed, I use my right hand to move the mouse.

Left Shoulder : Left Click - Click twice for double click
Right Shoulder : Right Click
Left & Right Shoulder : Centre Click

Looking forward to playing around with various control set ups, these configuration scripts seem like the making of a truly flexible system, as with the videos, keep 'em coming.

 

[MattF]

I have to chime in and say I bloody love the idea of using shoulder buttons as Shift and Ctrl modifiers, in terms of doing "general purpose computing" using the keyboard.

I don't mind if it's not default, but I'd really like the flexibility to be able to configure that.

 

[Alpha2]

I'd rather page up and down be on the dpad. Perhaps shift + Dpad could = Page up/down?

With analog sticks for clicks fear I could accidentally click something just reaching for a number button with my right hand.

 

[socket]

How odd...are keyboard discussions allowed these days?

D-pad: left,up,right,down
Left-nub: mouse

Fn+Enter -> Toggle scroll Lock

Scroll Lock on:
Right-nub: Left, Middle, Right, Double (Left) mouse buttons
abxy: Home, PgUp, End, PgDwn

Scroll Lock off:
Right-nub: Mouse wheels (horz+vert)
abxy: Left, Middle, Right, Double mouse buttons

I had to check your username, I thought for sure it was Cosurgi (the keyboard poll wizard - no offense intended, just goofing around) anyway I like this setup.

 

[droneb]

Well, this thread just goes to show there are no right answers as far as control layout / user interface matters are concerned. Only that everyone else is wrong!

Our best hopes are that the device is easily configurable.

For what it is worth, this would be my preferred method of mouse input :

Left Nub : Scrolling horizontal and vertical - This will be useful with a low res device
Right Nub : Move mouse - I'm right handed, I use my right hand to move the mouse.

Left Shoulder : Left Click - Click twice for double click
Right Shoulder : Right Click
Left & Right Shoulder : Centre Click

Looking forward to playing around with various control set ups, these configuration scripts seem like the making of a truly flexible system, as with the videos, keep 'em coming.

at last someone that is also right handed, i dont know why they keep going for mouse on the left (unless they are lefthanded).
i cant find miself aiming in quake with the left hand.
and yes as long this is easily customizable i have no problems.
EDIT:
almost the same, i just think left nub should act as arrow keys to keep easy config for FPS.

 

[peca]

@ED:
- Is possible setup nub with low deflection for cursor control and maximum deflection as home/end/pgup/pgdn? Maybe this is dumb, it is just idea how to get some buttons by sacrificing one analog.
- What is reason for having RShift and RCtrl? I mean, if You map them on shoulder buttons, they must be really important for something or used quite often.

 

[kuru]

It's utterly configurable anyway, right? I will set it like

d-pad      left nub              right nub            face buttons       L and R buttons
--------   ---------------       ------------------   -----------------  -----------------
'^' pgUp   should definitely     could be used for    A/B: LMB/RMB       Left and right  
'v' pgDn   move the mouse        panning around the   X: browser-back    mouse button
'<' home   since I am used to    page                 Y: browser-next
'>' end    analogue on the left

Mouse(nub) move with button press will be great for mouse gestures in some browsers, one of the reasons why I love opera. It could make navigating, opening and closing even switching tabs a breeze when set up properly.

Edit: Opera has the possibility to set single-button shortcuts, for example pressing "1" will go to the previous tab, "2" to the next. I'd very much like to see that working with a single keypress on the Pandora, too.

 

[Pleng]

So.... um.... what are we going to use as cursor keys...?

 

[mitosis]

+1 for configurability... I don't care much what the default set of controls are, but I better be able to map anything to anything...

I'm sure xmodmap will be able to get a decent amount of customization done, but I don't know the extent to which it can configure the gaming controls.

 

[EvilDragon]

How about mapping "down" on the right nub to control the sensitivity of the left nub? In the video it looked like it was a bit annoying from time to time to get the cursor to exactly the position you want. While holding down the right nub we could decrease the speed of the cursor for precise positioning.

That was because I needed to hold the Pandora in a weird angle to film it. Works way better in real life.

- What is reason for having RShift and RCtrl? I mean, if You map them on shoulder buttons, they must be really important for something or used quite often.

Because depending on what characters you are typing, Shift can be a bit uncomfy to press.
And we needed to map some keys there.

You're all forgetting one thing: This is a multitasking OS. As soon as one program changes the mapping, it will be changed for ALL programs. Or the programs constantly switch around, which is even worse.

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

However, a program can be coded to map L/R internally to mouse clicks. That's how it needs to be done. As soon as you make it global, other programs can be badly affected.

 

[Caine]

I had to check your username, I thought for sure it was Cosurgi (the keyboard poll wizard - no offense intended, just goofing around) anyway I like this setup.

Close enough I was one of the guys that worked together with Cosurgi on the keyboard layout designs.

Because depending on what characters you are typing, Shift can be a bit uncomfy to press. And we needed to map some keys there.

That's why I was planning to map shift to L and Fn to R. This has the added benefit of making all alternate keys available more easily as well.

 

[SNESFAN]

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

However, a program can be coded to map L/R internally to mouse clicks. That's how it needs to be done. As soon as you make it global, other programs can be badly affected.

so what happens in programs that use the right nub? Is it going to be clicking all over the place? Is it possible to make changes in just the desktop environment instead of every program?

I somewhat agree that mapping click actions to the nub is gonna be kinda wonky at first, no offense but it looked pretty wonky as well, and not the same kinda getting used to as the general keyboard placement is. I don't have a better suggestion other than the shoulder or abxy action buttons being the clickers (ala psp) but you say it's going to inter fear with other programs. Maybe a solution can be found for that problem rather than make people adapt by default to something that doesn't really sound like it will feel very natural.

suggested use of right nub would be the scroll wheel, but not just down for page down, but clockwise for page down, and counter clockwise for page up (ala iPod classic)

 

[Loon]

You're all forgetting one thing: This is a multitasking OS. As soon as one program changes the mapping, it will be changed for ALL programs. Or the programs constantly switch around, which is even worse.

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

OK, so what do we use as the cursor (arrow) keys? My understanding was that we'd use the ABXY buttons, how does this work in the above scenario?

EDIT : Just put my brain back in, guess we'll use the D pad for cursor keys.

 

[peca]

MrLoon: AFAIK, For cursor keys is D-Pad used. ABXY is for home/end, page up/down.

ED: Thank You for explanation. Anyway, I don't mess fabric settings too much. Only think I need is get familiar with compose key and typing proper Czech diacritics. This may be may only messing with initial settings as Pandora/Linux n00b.

 

[EvilDragon]

If you map L/R to the mousebuttons, then every game you play that uses the mouse and keyboard at the same time will always recognize a mouse click when you press L - which can make it unusable.

However, a program can be coded to map L/R internally to mouse clicks. That's how it needs to be done. As soon as you make it global, other programs can be badly affected.

so what happens in programs that use the right nub? Is it going to be clicking all over the place? Is it possible to make changes in just the desktop environment instead of every program?

Nope. The nubs will change the mode, not simply be remapped.
Games switch the nub to a joystick mode, so it can't be used as mouse or anything else for that time.
It won't interfere with anything.

I somewhat agree that mapping click actions to the nub is gonna be kinda wonky at first, no offense but it looked pretty wonky as well, and not the same kinda getting used to as the general keyboard placement is. I don't have a better suggestion other than the shoulder or abxy action buttons being the clickers (ala psp) but you say it's going to inter fear with other programs. Maybe a solution can be found for that problem rather than make people adapt by default to something that doesn't really sound like it will feel very natural.

Well, it's up to the devs! Anyone can port a browser which uses a different button layout.
It's up to the program what button does what, but in the global environment, the settings should always be the same. The ABXY or shoulder buttons on the PSP are ALWAYS the ABXY or shoulder buttons. It's the browser that maps it to the functions.

And that's something that can also be done on the Pandora. Make a diff to the browser sourcecode so that L / R is recognized as a mouseclick and it will work.

I actually think using both nubs for mouse and mousebuttons is really handy. The nubs are placed to be used at the same time for comfortable gaming. Using L/R with the left nub, then using the keyboard to type, etc. actually doesn't feel as comfortable for me.

But I guess everyone got his own preference. But anything is possible. It's just a software thing

suggested use of right nub would be the scroll wheel, but not just down for page down, but clockwise for page down, and counter clockwise for page up (ala iPod classic)

Then you can't scroll left and right, which you can also do with the right nub.