Nothing to show, but a lot happened.

[EvilDragon]

The last week has been another really busy week - not much to show though, mostly organizational but really important work.

 

However, it also showed how useful a community is

 

 

Keymats

 

We made a huge leap forward finding a keymat manufacturer.

 

Thanks to you guys and your great findings of keymat manufacturers, we found a few suitable ones and I'm currently in contact with them to narrow things down.

 

I've actually sent out a request to all of them but only three replied back yet, and one of them can't offer what we need.

 

However, one the ones who replied (from UK) is especially interesting. Besides only doing the production, they also offer their knowledge and tweak the design so the keys will feel as good and tactile as possible.

Of course, DPad and buttons will especially be taken care of. They will be extensively tested.

 

Their keymat would be of a silicon material with hard-plastic caps for the buttons.

Yep, not simply an epoxy coating like we have right now, but real flat plastic.

This should improve the look and feel as well as the usability a lot

 

The keymat will be a bit more expensive than the Pandora keymat, but still less than 10 USD.

This is a nice example how the community can help us out creating the Pyra

 

Fatih is also working on finding a keymat manufacturer, and there are also a few suitable ones.

However, they will only produce them according to our design (which is normal for most asian companies).

They don't offer us their knowledge to improve the design.

Well, we'll still keep an eye on them, it's better to have multiple companies at hand in case it doesn't work out as planned with one.

 

I'll also have a meeting with a german company on Tuesday about keymat production.

We'll see which one is best.

 

 

LCD testing PCB

 

Nikolaus also was mostly doing organizational stuff instead of designing.

 

It turned out that the design of the LCD test pcb was already pretty complex so that it couldn't be populated with the small machine at GC.

Using the big machine needs a more complex process and would need 3 weeks to get things started.

 

He is thinking about getting a small prototype machine for his company (so future boards could be soldered without using an external company), but he also found one company in Munich that is capable of populating the boards for us pretty fast.

 

The test boards will be populated next week and then - hopefully - it won't take too much time to get the LCDs working.

 

 

Shoulder Buttons

 

For the case design, we're mostly working on the shoulder buttons together.

It's not possible stacking them vertically - for various reasons.

 

It'd be very complex and almost impossible with that small space we got in the hinge area, and on the other hand, it would be very uncomfortable for most users.

I tried out Askarus mod (he modded a Pandora to have four shoulder buttons stacked up like that) and wasn't really able to push them without pushing the other ones as well.

If you got a Pandora, try yourself: Open the lid fully and put your fingers where the shoulder buttons are. Can you think of a comfortable way stacking two shoulder buttons on top of each other?

I can't - seriously. Unless you have very thin fingers (like Askarus does).

 

The best solution seems to be stacking them horizontally, beneath each other.

The NeoGeoX has a nice solution for that, but the inner buttons are too hard to push.

I think the inner buttons need a tad lighter push and it should also have a bit of a concave blob so the finger reaches it easily.

 

Of course, that's something we need to test, but it seems like a good solution to me.

 

Pheeew, long post with nothing to show this time.

But quite a few topics have moved further along the road and that's important

 

[Binky]

It's not possible stacking them virtually - for various reasons.

Don't you mean vertically?

 

[EvilDragon]

It's not possible stacking them virtually - for various reasons.

Don't you mean vertically?

Nice one - yep

 

[TrashyMG]

 Great update! I like the idea of it having hard-plastic key caps.

 

[thatgui]

Shoulder Buttons

...The best solution seems to be stacking them horizontally, beneath each other.

Is there a chance that we will see a decrease in the number of ports on the back due to more horizontal space beeing needed for the shoulder buttons? If so, will getting rid of the second USB-Port be sufficient? And if not, is only two shoulder buttons still an option ?

Great update! I like the idea of it having hard-plastic key caps.

indeedEdit: and please no shiny/glossy ones (just in case)

 

[rygD]

The keymat news is awesome.

 Great update! I like the idea of it having hard-plastic key caps.

I like this, too.  With the company offering to help tweak the feel it could be great.

Depending on the design, the key caps may make it easier for those who want alternate key layouts to implement that.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Keep up the good work ED!  You've got a good team around you and this community!

 

[EvilDragon]

Shoulder Buttons


...The best solution seems to be stacking them horizontally, beneath each other.

Is there a chance that we will see a decrease in the number of ports on the back due to more horizontal space beeing needed for the shoulder buttons? If so, will getting rid of the second USB-Port be sufficient? And if not, is only two shoulder buttons still an option ?

No, I don't plan to sacrifice any ports. I've checkd the plastic and it should work out.

 

[Yoyobuae]

A simple test to demonstrate how much of Pandora's shoulder button is really needed to press comfortably, turns out not much:

Even with the flat plastic (a ruler on this case) covering most of the shoulder button I still found it quite comfortable to press at the corner.

On Pyra the one set of shoulder buttons could be shrunk to the corner as demonstrated above and still remain comfortable, while the other set could take up the gained free space.

 

[levi]

I like this sort of update. No glitz, little glamour, just real stuff that's happening. I won't say I like posts full of problems after my history here, but this rings more like a post with potential solutions, and that I like.


I'm still not completely convinced about horizontal shoulders here. Although I hit the Pandora's buttons with the first joint from the knuckle, so that the tip of my finger falls on the non-button plastic inside the shoulders (unless I'm typing on the keyboard, then I tend to activate them with my fingertips), I still feel I need to shift my grip to assert any significant pressure on the finger tips, so I can arch my fingers slightly and provide some downward pressure. But having lighter buttons on the inside might be a good way around this problem, so I await updates with baited breath.

 

[Saber]

Good progress update. Thanks for endeavouring to make it all work just right.

 

[Majin Wamu]

This is a good update, but like a couple others, I am a bit concerned about the shoulder buttons. I know it isn't really up to me but I was really hoping for a vertical layout. Well anyways if they end of horizontal I will get used to it, I just prefer the vertical layout because then I can use my index fingers for the front shoulder buttons and my middle fingers for the back but it is okay, shoulder buttons wont make or break it for me. I can just use the front of my index finger for the inner shoulder buttons and the middle area of my index finger for the outer shoulder buttons, much like how you would hold down more than one string to a guitar (or bass, like me) with a single finger.

 

[N3Cr0]

The more I read about the horizontal shoulder button layout, the more I like it.

I noticed on my dual shoulder button mod (vertical) that pressing both buttons is a bit uncomfortable. So horizontal shall be the way to go.

 

[_wb_]

My index fingers have about the same width as the thickness of the Pandora/Pyra base. For that reason, horizontal shoulder buttons make more sense than vertical.

It makes sense to me to use one single finger for both buttons, using e.g. the intermediate phalange of the index finger for L1 and the distal phalange of the same index finger for L2. Using two fingers (e.g. index and middle finger) is not as practical.

Also, I would put the L1/R1 pair on the outside and L2/R2 on the inside. The outside buttons are the easiest to press, so they should be the 'main' buttons. I would make it L1=Shift, R1=Ctrl, L2=Fn/Meta, R2=Alt.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Nice to have news, even without pics !

 

[Foxgod]

Great news, looking forward to the keymat 

 

[renegadechic]

This might be a little... out of the box, but how about rather than cramming as much as possible onto the Pyra for full time use, maybe look into the addition of extra shoulder buttons on some kind of removable case like the 3DS circle pad pro. Realistically, four shoulder buttons might not be necessary for full time use of the console and just for certain games. Using the extra buttons to connect via bluetooth or USB could be a better solution as you could adequately increase the real-estate for the finger locations and potentially provide enough space for something more responsive than a push button. This way you could preserve form factor and still provide a good additional experience for those who wanted/needed it.

 

[PatientFan]

How about moving the two new shoulder buttons to the BOTTOM of the case, a bit to the center so they can be pressed with the middle or ring fingers?

I have used this type of modded XBox controller: http://www.evilcontrollers.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/968/image/2978/

The buttons on the bottom are much easier to use in-game than the shoulder buttons.

By the way, do I get this right?

Stacked horizontally looks like:    =

Stacked vertically looks like:        ||

(I am very happy to see a successor to the Pandora taking form! I always thought it would be a shame to stop after the Pandora and not build on the experience gained.)

 

[Askarus]

This might be a little... out of the box, but how about rather than cramming as much as possible onto the Pyra for full time use, maybe look into the addition of extra shoulder buttons on some kind of removable case like the 3DS circle pad pro. Realistically, four shoulder buttons might not be necessary for full time use of the console and just for certain games. Using the extra buttons to connect via bluetooth or USB could be a better solution as you could adequately increase the real-estate for the finger locations and potentially provide enough space for something more responsive than a push button. This way you could preserve form factor and still provide a good additional experience for those who wanted/needed it.

_wb_ and I (and others) want to use the shoulder buttons as modifyer keys whenever needed.

 

[_wb_]

This might be a little... out of the box, but how about rather than cramming as much as possible onto the Pyra for full time use, maybe look into the addition of extra shoulder buttons on some kind of removable case like the 3DS circle pad pro. Realistically, four shoulder buttons might not be necessary for full time use of the console and just for certain games. Using the extra buttons to connect via bluetooth or USB could be a better solution as you could adequately increase the real-estate for the finger locations and potentially provide enough space for something more responsive than a push button. This way you could preserve form factor and still provide a good additional experience for those who wanted/needed it.

_wb_ and I (and others) want to use the shoulder buttons as modifyer keys whenever needed.

Exactly. The lack of shoulder buttons for ALT and Fn/Meta is probably the biggest shortcoming of the Pandora keyboard.