Nintendo Ds Emulation On Pandora

[juniorm33]

I'm sorry but before ari64, this was exactly the same discussion, with most people thinking it's not possible and not worth while. The dev's never just stated to help him because it was worthwhile, they helped because he asked for it, he had made a start, he's a fellow developer, that's good enough reason for most!

Not to play devil's advocate but I think you're imagining this... N64 emulation was a very hot topic with most people being in heavy support of it. People were also very optimistic across the board. Ari64's development is more surprising because of how soon it happened than that it happened at all.

I also disagree with you that people answered Ari64's call merely because they wanted to be helpful. I'm sure all of the other contributors felt like N64 emulation was a meaningful task.

My point is that there was just as many people saying that it would be hard, no point because it wouldn't be full speed playable, etc. And that was a lot of people, it being possible wasn't as across the board as you seemed to think because part of the debate was this view of what is playable, especially when there was more important worthwhile things that could be done (not my view).

Not directed at you Exophase:
You can use the word impossible or waste of time meaning you may never get it full speed but that doesn't mean it's not a worthy project for someone or the wider community. If you had just listened to those people no one would've tried. It's up to each individual developer to choose what he wants to work on for whatever reason. We don't even know if ari64 choose to do it because he thought it would be close to full speed or just because he felt like the challenge of writing a recompiler. (Well I don't know his initial reasons anyway)

@Exophase:
From what I've seen of this community, if someone asks for help they are given it not just because they find it meaningful to themselves..
Even down to porting things that they don't have as high an interest in, running other peoples code because they've got a board. So I think you underestimate the community, the fact that they also liked idea of N64 was a bonus and motivator to push it forward.

@WizardStan - The reasons for writing something doesn't have to be the reasons the community want it, in a lot of cases they wont be. So for the community it maybe nice to only have to carry one device, for a developer it could be the challenge of doing it. And that's why a lot of times things get done without the monatry reward we try to throw their way to do something we want

Sorry about length of post but it has been quiet around here for a while

Edit:
@Jourdy288
I'd rather not bring piracy into the conversation although I understand your point. It's a very grey area at the best of times. i.e Dreamcast games still get sold, a new one I swear this year. And the fact is even if it's something that isn't being sold any more who are we to decide for the manufactures it's ok to emulate it, go buy an old arcade, or they may release it as an all times great collection on a modern console.

@Exophase: Wow that was one long well thought out list :lol:

 

[Exophase]

One other thing I forgot to mention on the orientation/playability side of things:

If the game uses only the dpad and touchscreen then you will possibly be able to hold the Pandora rotated and get a good stacked vertical display and possibly more comfortable touch access. How well this would work in practice remains to be seen.

 

[bzar]

I think what WizardStan is trying to get through, is that there are reasons for HAVING (using) an emulator, and MAKING one. These are two separate things. There have been many good reasons to HAVE an emulator listed here. However the only reason to MAKE one has been the dev's own interest in the task. Sure the dev's interest to make one is affected by the reasons for having one, but those reasons don't actually make him/her do it.

WS's second point has been the "there are more worthwhile projects", which I interpret as follows: People want a dev to make a DS emulator. The dev has no actual interest to make one, but wants to contribute to the community. The dev starts making one because of public request. The emulator is done, but because it doesn't work as well as people hoped, it doesn't get much use, save for a few cases of novelty. The dev could have made something that would actually be used, but made the emulator just because people wanted one without doing anything themselves just to have one. The point here is that if someone wants to commit his/her time into making something that could end up a gimmick, it should be because he/she wants to, not because someone else does.

Just my interpretation. There seem to be many misunderstandings floating around.

EDIT: Added "using" to clarify point

 

[juniorm33]

Trust me, it would be a crazy person to undertake doing an emulator of any difficulty under those conditions unless it was down to monetary reward, and nothing wrong with that, but they know the risks of doing it. If they didn't then they wouldn't get very far in the first place because they would have a bit of an idea of the task in hand prior to starting (that includes initial research)

Yea, that has been my point all along, but wanting it so I don't have to carry more than one thing is a good enough reason to me as a user!

Edit:
Disclaimer I'm not interested in DS personally

 

[typs lik dis]

These are advantages that can't be done on the real thing:

- Slow motion (hopefully not just the unintentional kind ;P)

The CycloDS Evolution allows at least three-speed (1/4, 1/3, and 1/2) slow-motion. I agree otherwise.

 

[juniorm33]

These are advantages that can't be done on the real thing:

- Slow motion (hopefully not just the unintentional kind ;P)

The CycloDS Evolution allows at least three-speed (1/4, 1/3, and 1/2) slow-motion. I agree otherwise.

Think that's what he meant,
unintentional kind (slowdown etc) is not the good kind

 

[Prometheus]

@Prometheus:
I've not played any of these games, but it just sounds like your worried about the touch screen which the pandora has????

Not wanting to really continue with this, but just to clarify, I was concerned about ergonomics - I can hold a DS with both hands, reach the gaming controls, and use a stylus and the touch-screen whilst doing so, since the touch-screen is on the bottom of the unit. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

Pandora isn't out yet so we can't say how comfortable it'll be to use the touchscreen heavily while holding it - personally I find this very uncomfortable on a DS and would never opt to do that when unnecessary.

Indeed. I should probably note that I find this very comfortable with the DS due to the positioning of the touch-screen - that's what makes me unsure about it on a device like the Pandora (or anything else of similar layout, I suppose), where it isn't so close to the hands. I'll be interested in seeing, when/if anything comes around, of course.

Since this only applies to certain games and certain preferences I think that's what needs to be said, rather than flat out calling DS emulation improper across the board.

Indeed. I didn't call it improper, though, as I don't think that (I'm interested in seeing what happens, more power to anyone who does what they want to do with it!) - I just said that I didn't think one can get a proper experience with a layout unlike the original machine. (I just don't think of "core market" titles when I think of the DS, so do pardon me for not taking those into account with my original posting.)

 

[juniorm33]

@Prometheus:
I've not played any of these games, but it just sounds like your worried about the touch screen which the pandora has????

Not wanting to really continue with this, but just to clarify, I was concerned about ergonomics - I can hold a DS with both hands, reach the gaming controls, and use a stylus and the touch-screen whilst doing so, since the touch-screen is on the bottom of the unit. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

You was probably clear for someone that has played the kind of games your talking about.
I just thought touching the screen would be the same as touching the lower one on the DS.
I've not played the DS. So it was probably my lack of understanding more so than your explanation
So thanks for taking time out to explain to me, as it was probably starting to irate you.

 

[Pleng]

What would interest me more is an Atari Jaguar emulator

Isn't there already a Jaguar emulator around for Pandora? I'm sure I read that somewhere...

 

[MDave]

Atari Jaguar emulation isn't even perfect on PC's yet, not to mention the high system requirements to run them. Doubt we'll see it on the Pandora at any playable speed.

 

[juniorm33]

Not read the thread personanly and this is off topic, but regarding jaguar
gp2x port

 

[MDave]

Hah wow, I stand firmly corrected. Nice find.

 

[God Ginrai]

Hah wow, I stand firmly corrected. Nice find.

That was one of the first emulators ported to the Pandora. Also, I believe it was the first one we got a video of. I thought you had been around since then.

-God Ginrai

 

[typs lik dis]

These are advantages that can't be done on the real thing:

- Slow motion (hopefully not just the unintentional kind ;P)

The CycloDS Evolution allows at least three-speed (1/4, 1/3, and 1/2) slow-motion. I agree otherwise.

Think that's what he meant,
unintentional kind (slowdown etc) is not the good kind

I know that a slow emulator is different from deliberate slow-motion like what I pointed out the CycloDS card allows on real hardware. What's your point?

 

[juniorm33]

These are advantages that can't be done on the real thing:

- Slow motion (hopefully not just the unintentional kind ;P)

The CycloDS Evolution allows at least three-speed (1/4, 1/3, and 1/2) slow-motion. I agree otherwise.

Think that's what he meant,
unintentional kind (slowdown etc) is not the good kind

I know that a slow emulator is different from deliberate slow-motion like what I pointed out the CycloDS card allows on real hardware. What's your point?

I'm sure you understand the difference, neither implied or said otherwise.
"I agree otherwise" implied that you misunderstood his point is how it read to me, so my point was that's what he meant same as what you was saying, nothing more nothing less.
Maybe you misunderstood my point?
Glad the misunderstanding is cleared up anyway, on whoever's side.

 

[MDave]

Hah wow, I stand firmly corrected. Nice find.

That was one of the first emulators ported to the Pandora. Also, I believe it was the first one we got a video of. I thought you had been around since then.

-God Ginrai

Yeah, I remember it now. Man my memory is failing on me

However, I now know why it runs Tempest 2000 so good. That emulator is especially very optimised for that specific game, emulating only one of the 68000 chips and using some special replacement code in the emulator for the other one (I think it's to do with sound). Otherwise, if it emulated the other chips properly we'd see it about 2x slower which would be the case for other games that are used on the emulator. Ahh well. Besides AVP, all the other good games on the Jaguar, you can find on other consoles so it's not the biggest loss in the world

 

[juniorm33]

Originally made to run one game, but I thought it was being updated, anyone know how that went or am I just plain wrong?
But tempest 2k baby.......

 

[fusion_power]

To all coders here: DON'T TALK, CODE!

 

[borgqueenx]

To all coders here: DON'T TALK, CODE!

I wish someone would start a ds emulator...
But i dont know how to get a dev to start on it. We tried offering money but no one answered to that.
Any other ideas?

 

[danielliu88888]

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