Nintendo Ds Emulation On Pandora

[sebt3]

Yes, I'm new to the forum and don't know the members.
Please don't bother posting if it's just spam.

He was just pointing that are new here.
Exophase is one of the best emulator coder out on this glob. I've yet to see (ok I didn't searched hard...) one of the greats coders out there that wont take exophase word for truth without even checking.
He answer you many time with a lot of respect, and yet you were still standing up.
So yeah some member will fell offended by your behaviour and will post that kind of post. And even, Xian was realy fair. I whould have been much harsh.
There is and old rule on the net : before posting to a mailing list, a news group, a forum, what-so-ever, you have to suscribe(if needed) and read enough to know who's who if that haven't been already posted ...
but there, I show my age

 

[danielliu88888]

Okay, I'm just going to believe what you say as it appears you know alot more about this kinda stuff than I do.

you just realized that?

Yes, I'm new to the forum and don't know the members.
Please don't bother posting if it's just spam.

if someone has a guru badge they're usually more knowledgeable than you

either way, nds emulation isn't being worked on, this topic is just a repeat of the circles we've been going through.

 

[mindlord]

Exophase: The Pinnacle of Emulation Edutainment.

 

[Loonie]

The problem is that people are just associating FPS with graphics. Think of it this (admittedly oversimplified) way:

If the emulator's bottleneck is with emulating the renderer, then yes, you can drop frames and have something than runs 30FPS normally still play at 15FPS.

If the emulation bottleneck is in emulating the CPU, then you're screwed, because everything the CPU does is critical. There are no CPU operations that can just be dropped. You cannot decide to just not do a bunch of mathematics. The game engine will be completely unable to advance until every operation is complete.

The reason you can get varying framerates on a PC game, whilst still having the game progress at the same speed with more or less smoothness, is because the engine for a PC game is scalable. It's built with the understanding that processing power will vary. On a PC, a scalable engine will calculate how long it took to work everything out for a frame, and will adjust things like unit speed, running speed, firing speed accordingly, so to the end user, the timeline is more or less advancing at the same speed.

Console engines are generally much less flexible in that regard, as they have been finely tuned for one hardware platform that runs at one speed. IF the emulation of the CPU is slower than the real thing, then the game will run slower, because the engine is not scaling. Even if the engine is able to scale, it will very likely still run slower, because it may be calculating gamespeed according to the capabilities of the original platform, not to your pretend version of it.

This is a gross simplification, but y'know. Servers only have so much storage.

 

[Hotcooler]

Framerates... X360's... PC's.... If you need some enlightenment go here - http://forum.beyond3d.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6 and here - http://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry/ and may be here - http://www.lensoftruth.com/ and sometimes here - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/

And BTW DS is pretty much not capable in normal surcomstances to render at less than 60fps. Not 60 screen refreshes a second but real fps because of how it's hardware is done, it's capped that way so it's kinda hard to do less than 60fps.

And about emulation FPS, there is kinda two fps's going on, the frames that CPU can produce and that GPU can compute. You can do frameskip if the GPU is bottleneck, but if it's CPU than you will see not a jerky game but a game in slow motion.

 

[ashdjones]

How about people stop piracy and buy the games?

N64 is a "dead" console.. Roms dont hurt AS MUCH (besides, you can buy the games for only a few dollars each and dump them with a gameshark).

Dreamcast - Dead

PS1 - (kind of) dead

Look at the trend.. Sega, Nintendo..

Just buy a DS, buy the games.
Or get an R4DS or CycloDS and play roms that way.

I own a DS and a bunch of games, I should have the freedom to play them on whatever hardware I choose.

 

[Tokiopop]

I own a DS and a bunch of games, I should have the freedom to play them on whatever hardware I choose.

You'd think so, but according to Nintendo's Piracy page, nope. But like that ever stops anyone.

 

[Tensuke]

One thought I just had that would be cool for a DS emulator(but probably unworkable). There could be an option for choosing how you want the screens oriented, and you could move around and resize each screen at will, and rotate them even. Snapping to 1:1 pixel ratios could be optional, as well as preset options(two side by side, on top vertically, etc.)
But I don't mind waiting; DS is just not a priority atm.

 

[Drack]

Just carry your DS with you. It's not a huge deal, guys.

None of the qualified devs seem to be working on emulating it, and given the magnitude of the task it will probably be a year after someone STARTS working on it before it's fully playable.


On a more upbeat note, Pandora has led me to switch from DS Lite to DSi, as I won't need those GBA cartridges anymore. Thanks Exophase for your work in GBA emulation.

 

[Paradox]

Just carry your DS with you. It's not a huge deal, guys.

None of the qualified devs seem to be working on emulating it, and given the magnitude of the task it will probably be a year after someone STARTS working on it before it's fully playable.


On a more upbeat note, Pandora has led me to switch from DS Lite to DSi, as I won't need those GBA cartridges anymore. Thanks Exophase for your work in GBA emulation.

as long as we have fullspeed GBA/PSX/DC/N64/PSP I can live without DS emulation, for a year or two until it's done anyway =)

 

[guilmon999]

why are people worried about frame rate so much. i thought you need at least three times the power of the device you are trying to emulate the DS has two processors ARM based with a total of 80mhz just the ARM core of the pandora is 7.5 time the power of the DS and the Graphics on the DS are not that good so i think the pandora can handle teh DS just fine

 

[gruso]

why are people worried about frame rate so much. i thought you need at least three times the power of the device you are trying to emulate the DS has two processors ARM based with a total of 80mhz just the ARM core of the pandora is 7.5 time the power of the DS and the Graphics on the DS are not that good so i think the pandora can handle teh DS just fine

Myths, all myths. There are no such rules, it's more complicated than that.

 

[Jonttu]

why are people worried about frame rate so much. i thought you need at least three times the power of the device you are trying to emulate the DS has two processors ARM based with a total of 80mhz just the ARM core of the pandora is 7.5 time the power of the DS and the Graphics on the DS are not that good so i think the pandora can handle teh DS just fine

Myths, all myths. There are no such rules, it's more complicated than that.

If your a good enough at optimizing, all you need is for the other device to perform the same amount of MIPS. haha

 

[Shaun199three]

Just carry your DS with you. It's not a huge deal, guys.

None of the qualified devs seem to be working on emulating it, and given the magnitude of the task it will probably be a year after someone STARTS working on it before it's fully playable.


On a more upbeat note, Pandora has led me to switch from DS Lite to DSi, as I won't need those GBA cartridges anymore. Thanks Exophase for your work in GBA emulation.

Lol I sold my ds to help me afford a Pandora. I actually do think it would be annoying carrying 2 bulky devices in your pockets. Maybe its just me but I like to keep one pocket empty for my wallet and phone and I don't carry bags around.

 

[Tokiopop]

revised:

Reason 1: why then, would we want an N64, SNES, NES, Dreamcast, Atari, MAME, This, That, and TheOtherThing emulator if we can just go and plug it into the tv?

Those aren't portable.

Reason 2: Why, if you are away from home, (and you want to play your ds but you were retarded and forgot to bring it) go home just to get your ds, when you could play it on your Pandora.

You would want to play your DS at 1-20% speed when you have so much more on offer, why?

Reason 3: All in one, meaning less hassle like I said.

yes I did repeat myself with several of the reasons in my first and in this one.

Reason 4: Why not?

Okay, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a DS emulator, it's just not going to be a very good one.

 

[borgqueenx]

15 fps video and 30fps sound, thats gonna make me damn happy
but i dont think any developer is willing to spend this great deal of time in it.
Collecting money wont work as well. We tried it before.

Come on people we need ideas!

 

[juniorm33]

It will happen (performance levels is unknown).
Sooner or later a dev will be interested enough to give it a whirl.
Their just not that interested at the moment from what we know.
I just don't understand the people who just keep saying take both along.
Yea sure, will have to do that for now. But I don't see how that's a good enough reason not to want an emulator.
That's like saying, well you've got a PDA, carry that around if you want that functionality.
I'm not interested in DS, but doesn't mean I can't understand not wanting to carry both around if it can be helped, which at this moment in time it can't be.

It would just be nice for the conversation to progress from that, although everything that can be said about DS emulation has already been said a few times now.

 

[Prometheus]

I can give one good reason to carry both: Even if a very good emulator is made, you will still never be able to get a proper experience with any given game as you would playing on the real hardware. The DS is one of those machines where this is very pronounced.

 

[juniorm33]

Depending on the kind of games you like to play and what you are willing to put up with.
By the sounds of it, there are a lot of people who are willing to forgo the proper experience

 

[Rockthesmurf]

And don't forget, if someone ports a DS emulator to the Pandora, then we are twice as likely to get full speed 360 emulation, as we could run either a 360 emulator written for Pandora, or one written for DS! That's how it works, I'm sure, my mate Dangerous Dave was telling me about it down the pub the other night, seems pretty much like fact to me...

Steve